I did not know this page. Thanks for the link. This is so 100% The Register! Shoutout to the team from the "guy with the open university style beard" ;-)
I always assumed 1km = 0.6 miles because all all of the car guys yapping about 0-100 and 0-60. Good enough, tbh. Inch is 2.5cm, and there are 12 of them in a foot for some reason. Pint is slightly less than half a liter, pound is slightly less than half a kilo, and anyone mentioning stones gets stoned to death. Simple enough.
Just wait until you try to understand American cooking recipes. Cups everywhere! My favorite was "A cup of spinach", without any mentioning if they were talking about fresh spinach (losely or densily packed) or cooked/frozen one.
I always assume there's absolutely no point in expending brain cells to store this information and therefore exclusively deal in metric.
(Except for DnD for some reason, but that's also about to change)
I've never wanted to know how many of any unit are in a mile. It's just something I've never had reason to care about. So there's 1000 meters in a kilometer. That's just trivia to me. There's no need to know that.
No. Nobody wants to know that. Nobody needs to know that.
Nobody needs a measurement with a magnitude of a mile to the precision of an inch. And if they did, they'd either measure the whole length in inches or decimal miles, not some bullshit multiple-unit travesty.
Ya'll are solving a problem that never existed in the first place.
If I'm building a railroad, I'm going to need mm precision in laying sleepers and rail, sure. But I'm not particularly interested in km magnitude while I'm driving spikes.
If I'm driving a train over that rail, I'm interested in km lengths, but I can tolerate several hundreds of meters of imprecision in those measurements. No need to convert to meters, let alone mm for that measurement.
The closest I'll come to needing both km magnitude and mm precision is in figuring out how much material to order.
But, when I do that, what I will actually be converting isn't length to length. I'll be figuring out how many sleepers per km, how many rail segments per km, how many buckets of spikes per km. None of those will be simple metric unit conversions.
But, when I do that, what I will actually be converting isn’t length to length. I’ll be figuring out how many sleepers per km, how many rail segments per km, how many buckets of spikes per km. None of those will be simple metric unit conversions.
This is actually the primary strength of imperial and the impetus behind most of its conversion ratios. Base 10 is just terrible for being divided. But if you have a mile of railroad, you can place your rail and stakes regularly at almost any foot-length and come out even.
Exactly. Our base-ten number system is cursed. A base-twelve metric system would be gorgeous. Our existing clocks would already be metric.
In addition to scaling by "10" (pronounced "ten"), current Metric Rulers commonly scale by 2 when going from centimeter to 1/2 centimeter markings, or by 5 when going from cm to 2mm markings, depending on the degree of precision required. Rarely do rulers actually scale from cm to 1mm. You typically need calipers to make measurements smaller than 2mm.
With base-twelve, we'd still be able to scale by "10" (pronounced "twelve"), but we'd also be able to scale by 2, 3, 4, or 6.
Rarely do rulers actually scale from cm to 1mm. You typically need calipers to make measurements smaller than 2mm.
I'm pretty sure most rulers and measuring tapes I've ever seen had 1 mm markings.
We're talking rulers of typically 10-30 cm marked length and made of plastic or metal, and longer measuring tapes made of either flimsy metal (in a casing with a lock-button) or those softer textile tapes.
The only exception I can think of, that has only 1 cm markings, is a wooden 1 m teachers' ruler made for blackboard use. But you do you with the calipers.
Shows you how many metric rulers I've used... In my experience, most have four marks, at 2mm, 4mm, 6mm, and 8mm. Some have only had the 5mm mark. But searching for images, I can't find any that look like the tapes I'm using, so my experience must not be the norm.
Well the main reason why the metric caught was there were many many mny versions of older systems in place. You may have heard a french inch was different then an English inch. But it was way more complex then just that.
Even in a single country different industries could all use a gallon but have it be different. Need 39 yards of rope for your ship? Well is that paris or vince yards? Also better remember the currency conversion.
Having one system was better since everyone could now agree on how long something was. This is also why metric time failed to catch on. Everyone agreed on days, weeks, years etc etc.
Bingo. That's the true advantage of the metric system: everyone uses it. Unit conversion is a highly overrated function.
Metric time will only catch on if and when we adopt interplanetary travel and are no longer fundamentally tied to the rotation and revolution of a particular rock around a particular star.
I'm an American and every last bit of my shop is metric. It is the superior unit of measurement in every aspect. I don't bother with imperial at all. If I have to list dimensions online in imperial, just multiply mm x 25.4 which gives me inches. That's as far as Ill go into inches and feet.
I've said this before and Ill say it again, the US was robbed of the superior unit of measurement.
So, from my perspective, your experience gives me the exact opposite view. The fact is: no one is stopping us. Anyone in American can use metric any time they want. We use Imperial a significant amount of time because it's useful. Feet and inches are related to body parts. Kilometers are too small for our giant country. I design surgical tools, and I use metric. I design buildings, and I use feet and inches.
I don't really think it's slowing us down to have more than one system.
That's true in theory, but if you talk about megameters to a European you'll get very weird looks.
An engineer will understand what you mean, but still laugh at you.
But it's a non-issue for anything on earth, where you'll have 40.000 kilometers at most. Not a lot of time is spent talking about x thousand kilometer.
Any notion that a kilometer is "too small" is laughable.
Lol. Dude, with all due respect, did you skip breakfast or something? First, body parts? Take a drink of water, please. You're dehydrated. Also, although I agree imperial isn't completely useless, one of its strengths is not because the size of the contental United States. It's not like miles and kilometers are orders of magnitude different when measuring an identical distance. Lightyears and astronomical units are terrible units to use to describe a drive from LA to NYC for this reason, but is it really that big if a deal between choosing miles and kilometers? I don't see it that way.
The main reason why I use metric with my work is because I commonly deal in millimeters / sub-inches. If I used inches, everything would be shitty fractions and I hate fractions. To me, metric is just cleaner when increasing or decreasing magnitudes. Which I generally stay within cm and mm.
Within industrial applications, such a building a structure in the US, yeah, it makes sense to stick ti imperial because it is indeed the national unit of measurement. But outside that reason, I don't find much of a benefit. Coincidentally, I moved off grid 3 weeks ago and am building a cabin way out in the woods. Because its just me and I plan to stay here until my end, I'll definitely use metric. If I was just developing a place I intended to flip, I'd use Imperial singularly because I'm in the US.
Our units of temporal measurement, from seconds on up to months, are so complicated, asymmetrical and disjunctive so as to make coherent mental reckoning in time all but impossible. Indeed, had some tyrannical god contrived to enslave our minds to time, to make it all but impossible for us to escape subjection to sodden routines and unpleasant surprises, he could hardly have done better than handing down our present system. It is like a set of trapezoidal building blocks, with no vertical or horizontal surfaces, like a language in which the simplest thought demands ornate constructions, useless particles and lengthy circumlocutions. Unlike the more successful patterns of language and science, which enable us to face experience boldly or at least level-headedly, our system of temporal calculation silently and persistently encourages our terror of time.
...It is as though architects had to measure length in feet, width in meters and height in ells; as though basic instruction manuals demanded a knowledge of five different languages. It is no wonder then that we often look into our own immediate past or future, last Tuesday or a week from Sunday, with feelings of helpless confusion. …
—Robert Grudin, Time and the Art of Living.
The units are complicated because our world is complicated. The moon orbits the earth in a certain interval, the earth orbit the sun and the earth revolves around itself. Those are the major points of reference but none of them line up.
Best of all, none of those natural reference values are constant. They drift gradually, and lunar months won’t be 30 days forever just like a day won’t be 24 hours in the future.
Hmm, I wonder... our current standard of time might end up being the standard for a long time, primarily because of GPS. Before we had global data networks it wasn't really possible to syncronize clocks all around the world. There used to be a telephone service that you could dial which would tell you "The time is now eight fifty-five PM" or w/e because that was the most effective way to distribute a coordinated time signal, and then you could manually set your local clock/watch to match.
But GPS depends heavily on accurate time information, and keeping it accurate is very complicated. Relativitistic time dilation applies because the satellites are:
far enough away from Earth (~20000km) that they experience different gravity than devices on Earth's surface, causing local time for the satellite to be be faster, and
moving so fast in their orbit that they experience a measurable slowing of local time.
(that's right, using GPS on your phone is a real-world demonstration of the theory of relativity in practical effect)
..and all those satellites are constantly checking in with each other and ground stations to make sure they're in agreement.
As a result there is now a de facto standard time reference for the entire world, and all networked devices depend on it for their own timing, and it is accurate to microseconds at worst.
100 years ago people were still winding mechanical clocks every day, and setting them by the local churchbell.
Yep. This stuff is surprisingly complicated, and that’s why we need to measure the day using a standardized unit instead of defining the unit with the day.
Incidentally, Wikipedia has a nice graph about the variation of the length of day. It’s surprisingly messy and pretty far from the ideals of antiquity.
The lunar month is currently ~29.5306 days (synodic, on average). Some day in the future (probably in a few million years), the average synodic moon cycle will reach 30 days (it is slowing down) - if, and that is a big if - we keep the current definition of "second" and "day", because both the length of the day as well as the lenght of the year will have changed...
I suggest we switch to Planck based units. Just slap on a suitable multiplier to make the final unit practical in normal life and engineering. Basically like the mol unit but with a more precise and natural foundation.
If the fundamental constants of the universe aren’t exactly constant, we’re screwed and there are no good units.
The way we split them is still purely arbitrary though. We could have metric time that uses multiples of 10 just by adjusting the duration of a second accordingly and adjusting how we divide time in a day.
Days of the calendar would be more challenging. But it's still possible to make something much more workable I'm sure of it.
Have a look at the international fixed calendar, used by kodak internally until 1989. 13 months of 28 days, it looks so clean
Everything months starts a Sunday (I'd rather start weeks on Monday but whatever), every second Monday is the 9th. Plus it has the advantage of keeping the 7 days week we're used to. Software excluded, it looks easy to adopt.
When the metric system was defined and adopted during the French revolution they changed the calendar as well.
Months were changed to be 30 days each with an extra 5-6 days at the end of the year, weeks were 10 days long, days were 10 hours of 100 minutes, each minute lasted 100 seconds.
Unfortunately it did not stick and the decimal time system was reverted.
Then there's my favorite cursed unit: the kip! 1 kip=1000 lbs. "Kip" is short for "kilo-pounds." It's a unit used frequently in American civil and structural engineering. And it is so deliciously cursed.
Fun fact: the SI (international system of units) actually defines a multiplier "Ki", but it is not a factor of 1000. A Kisomething is 1024 something. As in 1KiB = 1024B (Kilobytes resp. Bytes).
Yes, a kilobyte is 1000 bytes, a kibibyte is 1024 bytes. But almost always when talking about kilobytes, kibibytes are implied. Except when they aren't.
In the US, we should make things even more confusing to anger the metric folks. I propose we redefine the "foot" every four years. The length of the foot will always correspond to the actual measured foot length of the current US president.
the fact that you think this will anger metric folks who already don't make sense of your dumb system rather than ruin many aspects of your country ... uh ... never mind, you're already ruining many aspects of country. ignore what I was going to say. carry on.
Growing up in the Metric environment, I only have to deal with the Imperial system very rarely before the Internet. But later, I found out there's a whole country that only use Imperial, and that they almost always demand you convert your system to the one they understand, and almost never bothered with Metric when they write anything. But then again, I found out that they also use units that are totally novel. I just have to accept that this is the character of them, and continue using Metric.
There is no country that only uses Imperial. Americans use grams for weed. And technically what the US uses is called US Customary. Some units are different from Imperial. Funny thing is both Imperial and US Customary are legally defined in metric.
Yeah measures like a foot were never standardized across countries using imperial before napolean introduced metric, as the french foot was 13 inches or so, making napolean at least as tall as putin and not the 5 1 under that measure.
Probably. Because their understanding of metric is next to none. So they don't even know what to convert it to. We also often take for granted with that we grow up with.
It wasn't until I was 25 that I realized woodworking and sewing, isn't part of the normal elementary school curriculum abroad.
It's far from easy for someone that grew up in a different system to get a good reference of what different units feel like. It's the kind of change you need multiple new generations for.
The only reference Americans have for metric is 9mm
I'm having way too much fun with refusing to convert to or even learn that abomination of a system. Whenever a Murrican starts a conversation with inches, feet, ellbows or whatever I ask them what they mean and whether they can convert that to real units please.
One of the most annoying things in the world are American websites that claim to sell internationally but they only offer USD and all provided measurements are in American imperial.
Right up there with online stores that only have boxes for "state" and "zip code" even if the selected country doesn't use those.
We actually use both. Imperial is easier to break into 3rds, but can still break down into other bases easily without any irrational numbers. Metric is more useful for science, but my mom who does landscaping prefers Imperial for her designs because it’s not stuck in base-10.
Europeans are the ones who refuse to learn more than one system lol
Bring forth the ceremonial cudgels, it's imperial units bashing time.
The chain (abbreviated ch) is a unit of length equal to 66 feet (22 yards), used in both the US customary and Imperial unit systems. It is subdivided into 100 links. There are 10 chains in a furlong, and 80 chains in one statute mile. In metric terms, it is 20.1168 m long.
I like metric weight for cooking (on the rare occasion I make something that involves careful measuring, and for my bread making) and MILES can fuck right off, km are fine for measuring long distance. And fine with meters, cm for short distance.
But I do like how feet are 12 inches, because 12 is so evenly divisible, and like that a gallon splits in half and half again and again until you get cups. It's like RAM,
In metric, the 12 really isn't important anymore which kinda invalidates that. We normally go to the nearest mm or, if needed, some fraction of that (not normally needed in my life at least)
When building wooden furniture, the ability to divide by 3 and 4 comes in handy a lot more often than dividing by 5, and I don't have to start rounding to nearest or stuff like that. For this task, inches work out better.
If I never see another inch size bolt in my life it'll be too soon.
My point is, if you're using feet and inches you maybe want to divide by that. We in the metric world don't so it's not that big a deal. Our woodworking is done in CM and MM and we rarely need fractions of mm.
Can anyone with a deeper understanding of the history of the metric system explain why a gram is the base unit of weight, and a litre the base unit of volume?
I thought the foundation of the system was that a kilogram is the weight of a litre of water. But then why not name them 1 thing = 1 thing rather than 1000x a thing = 1 thing.
And yes I've had four cups of coffee and no sleep today.
A gram is not the base unit, it started with one meter (hence, metric).
Kilo means thousand in Latin, so 1000 meters became one kilometer (aka, one thousand meters), and when they need smaller units, they took to Latin again, simply because the language was en vogue for science:
Deca (ten): Decimeter (dm, nowadays hardly used, but it exists) = 0.1m
Centum (hundred): Centimeter (cm) = 0.01m
Mille (thousand): milimiter (mm) 0.001m
Weights were then adopted from the dimensions based on practicality, i.e. one liter was a common enough volume that people could use it in a household, and it's defined by 1dm height x 1dm length x 1dm width. Or 10cm10cm10cm (same thing, but the base notation was units of one).
The only use of the decimetre I've seen in real life, is that the standard school rulers, being 20 cm long are commonly called "double décimètres" (in France). Maybe other places use them more.
Sub-units are a bit like regionalisms, France likes cl for liquids, many places like adding zeroes and using ml, maybe some use dl...
That’s an interesting question that I’d never thought about before.
I asked chatGPT, which predictably bullshitted me and said they’d decided grams made more sense than kilograms for scientific lab work.
But then I searched and found this from the user tomalator on Reddit:
“When the French were developing the metric system, they suggested the unit be called a grave (pronounced grav) being the mass of 1L of water (1000 cm3)
The French at this time being in the middle of a revolution against the rich notice that it sounded a lot like the word Graf, being a word for Duke or Earl, and they wanted to avoid affiliating with the nobility, so they changed the measurement to be the mass of 1mL of water (1 cm3) and called it the gramme
They then noticed that it was inconvenient to use a mass unit so small, so they changed back to the 1L of water definition, but kept the name gramme for the base, and threw out the word grave in favor of the kilogramme.
And that's why the kilogram is the base SI unit and not the gram. I had the exact same question when I learned the SI unites.”
I want to prefer imperial, but using fractions for tools is super fucking annoying when millimeters are easy, and then stores giving me price per ounce in the store, other products price per pound making me do the fucking Mental Math multiplying times 16 pisses me off.
Fractions are a stupid way to measure small distances, and ounces are a stupid way to measure it small amounts of weight.
But at the same time, fractions are actually a better way to measure precisely. If you need to record a precision that's greater than a whole unit without being 10x as precise, decimal kinda sucks. If your precision is 1/8 a cm, you either have to round up or imply that the precision is accurate to 0.001 cm.
You can always play with a denominator to show greater precision with fractional measurements (1/8 vs 2/16 vs 8/64), but you can't easily imply lower precision with decimal.
I do not agreed that fractions are a better way of measuring small distances. Decimals can be broken down infinitesimally. I don't see anything hard to understand about it, meanwhile fractions you have to like compare and contrast the denominators to find the values or break out some long division or a calculator. Fuck that.
How do you describe a measurement of 1 and a quarter of a centimeter precise to 1/4cm without either over-stating or under-stating precision of the measurement?
Decimal only allows you to increase or decrease precision by a factor of 10.
I have a chip on my shoulder about the metric system as it appears in sci-fi writing.
It drives me nuts that in books like The Expanse (and I think the Bobiverse and Andy Wier's works) that the writer will call distances in "thousands/millions of kilometers".
Really feels more reasonable to just go full send and call them megameters and gigameters, but maybe that's just my American non-metric mind trying to force full use of a system in a way those born to it don't actually do.
Amerifats cant get over their imperialist england brain to work in tandem with rest of the world. It creates just enough division and tribality between the world the US to justify its colonial nature and settlement enterprise in the americas.
My favorite fact about the metric system that blows imperial believer's minds is that if you take a 1cm thick tube you put 1 liter of water it weights 1kilogram and it it 1 meter tall the measure.
Instead of fighting over the best arbitrary unit system we should all sit together and create a truly logical system that makes conversions - even between units - as simple as possible.
This thread is full of middle schoolers who don’t realize that you can measure things in whatever system you want, regardless of country. The whole premise of this circlejerk is faulty.
You can but there are real examples where mixing units results in failure. NASA lost a 125 million dollar mars probe in 1999 because JPL and NASA use metric but Lockheed Martin added acceleration data in American imperial units.
It might be a circle jerk but it is also best practice to use a standard system and there's really only one holdout on not using that system. I say this as an American who wishes people would just use metric because it's just easier unless you just fucking love fractions of an inch.
Your example of not mixing systems up within projects is somewhat valid, but not applicable to the whole. There are a lot of uses for Imperial, and using Imperial in landscaping does not have a chance of causing catastrophic failure in rocket science.
Other than it being “cultural” and laziness there’s no point in keeping imperial. Stop using an obsolete system so we Canadians can switch our stoves to Celsius without having to worry about you yanks cooking with our equipment and hurting yourselves.
I’m going to use metric for height and weight. I don’t care if some wanker American complains they can always head south if they want or visit Liberia for a getaway, get with the times already.
The metric system, base 10, is not easily breakable into thirds without irrational numbers. In aesthetic fields, such as landscaping or interior design, the ability to break something into exact thirds, quarters, halves, fifths, sixths, and so on, is invaluable. It’s not just cultural. It sounds like it is to you, which is weird… why are you personally identifying with a unit of measurement?
I also don’t understand your Liberia reference. Could you elaborate?
Liberia, until 2018, used the imperial system. They were one of three countries that used the imperial system, Myanmar being the third one. They are currently in the process of using metric, but it appears they are using both for now.
I was just explaining the Liberia part of the comment, I was not the commenter. I am American and like both metric and imperial. I prefer metric for baking and applications where higher precision is useful, but use imperial for most other things since that is what is commonly used around me.
anyone can do whatever on their own, but if it affects anyone else than that one person its not just that one person's business.
I cant see the insistence of using imperial system as anything else than america has used it in the past, and therefore its american system and because america is the best it must be the best system to use and to claim anything else is to hate america.
I’m sorry that you can’t seem to see it any other way, but that is just not reality. The imperial system has many uses that the metric system is not apt for.
Base 10 measurement systems such as the metric system cannot divide distances into thirds or sixths without creating irrational numbers. This can be a problem for interior designers and landscape designers, for instance, who regularly need to create drafts for projects that break up measurements that way. The imperial system is more versatile in this particular instance because you can break a foot into 12 inches, which is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (yes, still wouldn’t be irrational), and 6. Much more versatile when your contractor needs to actually go out and make a measurement in the real world. While metric could be “good enough” for that purpose, it is not the most ideal.
Been ages since I was in a math class and I misquoted why it’s useful. It’s not that it is rational, as 10/3 is also rational. However, 10/3 is not an integer, and therefore cannot be found on a measuring stick or tape measure. There are projects where being able to divide into exact thirds, 6ths, etc are required, and metric is not as useful for that. In a country that also uses imperial interchangeably, it makes sense to use it with projects that are better served with imperial.
i'd say its still easier to just choose desired level of precision with 3.333333333 than deal with imperial's conversion maddness, even if you can divide them evenly. I guess imperial is ok if you dont ever have to use it with any other system, but lack of combitability is quite isolationist.
With imperial, every unit is like it's own singular instance where in metric each unit is part of the system. Trying to convert between them seems like a nightmare (i dont want to even try, but i assume those who use imperial just have to.)
Like, how many inches are on 1000 miles? Try to convert that exactly in your head without using calculator or paper and within 10 seconds. How many square feet are on 37 acres? How much does 5,5 gallons of water weigh in stones?
Or lets say we have container with measurements of 3x3x3 inches (i'll be merciful and use same unit for each dimension) MysteryLiquid™ (use calculator for this one if you try to calculate it)
with density of 3,337 pounds / ...perch..? or more commonly 0,00625 acres (not many area units in imperial).
How much does the MysteryLiquid™ in the container weigh in stones?
In metric the density would be about 301 kg/m3.
3 inches is 0.0762 metres so container would be 0.0762^3^ which is 0,000442450728m3 which is 442.450728 cm³
So m =p x V = 301kg x 0.000442m3 = 0.133kg, try calculating that whole thing in imperial, using crazy different units without ripping out your hair. I used sensible units for metric in this one, but i could have used nanograms, mm^3^ and decimeters instead and it would just mildly inconvenience me when calculating, and also produce way bigger numbers but at least the conversion factors would remain same.
Not being able to divide some measurements in even numbers is very small price to pay for being able to calculate things more easily.
You can use both without using them in the same project. Yes, I understand how conversions work.
You can make the same argument going the other way. Isn’t is complicated to go from metric to imperial? May as well just use imperial! See, it’s not a good argument.
well my point was to make those calculations using only imperial units, not randomly go between metric and imperial. Metric calculation was there to just illustrate how it would go using metric units.
Everytime I see one of these posts I have to make the same comment.
The US is metric, everywhere that it matters. In the military, in the medical field, and in the scientific field.
The ONLY reason we haven't converted every other part of our lives to metric is that our country is 50 times the size of the average European country. Do you know how expensive it would be to replace the infrastructure we've built and maintained over the past 200 years? The tax payers could not handle that burden, and it would require every state to agree to the terms of the change for a total conversion.
At this point, it is just part of our identity. It would be like asking the French to eat day old bread. They could, but why?
We did customs tooling. In the 80s 90s it was inch sizing and inch components. Late 90s still inch tooling but Metric components, and so drawings would have REAM for .236 Dowel ( instead of 6mm) LOL
In mid 2000s tooling was metric sized as long as it was close to a purchasable inch size from the steel foundary. So block would be 608mm wide, to order a 24" block.
So 2025 mostly you can see places working full metric.
Then there are places I have worked recently that still use Fractional inch on projects and then wonder why assembly problems arise. Like design intent is 8.541 and maybe clearance to adjacent part has to be .039". Drawing has 8 9/16 + 1/32, so not only is sizing wrong compared to mating part, the fractional inch means dude uses a tape measure by eye, rather than a 3 place decimal measure tool.
It's such a mess.
One, they aren't fantasy units— this is real life, son.
Two, the country was built on imperial, so the trades use imperial to maintain the country. Everyone in the US grows up learning in imperial, and then learns metric when they get into physics and chemistry.
Three, I addressed the fact that WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO SWITCH. It does not matter if it is going to be more expensive in the future. We can't afford it NOW.
I understand the spirit of your reply. This is just the reality of what having 50 different states, who can't agree on anything and are loosely tied together by an over-arching government, is like.
There are 27 counties in the European Union, and they are filled with reasonable people in government(for the most part).
We have 50 states that are filled with greedy little assholes who will do everything in their power to gain more power to leverage in a bid to destroy what they deem "the enemy", so they can make even more money and gain more power.
We are never going to convert wholesale to metric. We can't even agree, as a country, that poor people are people, at a government scale. That is entirely motivated by profit and nothing more.
It's also that imperial uses body measurements for basic stuff. Your foot is about a foot long, so you can pace off distances. One yard is about the length from your collarbone to the opposite wrist, so I can roughly measure fabric quickly. From your fingertip to the crook of your thumb is about five inches, and the knuckles on your fingers are about an inch apart.
I used to do industrial embroidery at an immigrant-owned shop, and the boss switched from metric to imperial because measuring a couple inches with your fingers is faster than finding a meter stick and measuring centimeters exactly. When you've got multiple inches in your margin for error, there is no need for the precision of metric, and the speed of imperial just makes more sense.
who the fuck are these absolute twats that are simping over a system of measurement? good for you, your governance made a good choice, but it was hardly like OP invented it or was responsible for the adoption, so whoop de fuckin' doo. or Le Whoop if you must convert.
we don't like imperial, it's not like you'll find people (outside hicksville or maga) claiming to defend it's superiority.
and get off your silly pretensions, for all your metric elegance the UK is still measuring shit in stones and miles.
Honestly who uses stone to measure their weight? And if we switched to km for roads tomorrow I'd be happy, might take a minute to adjust but it's fine.
Nope. Household use in Europe is Gramm "g" and Kilogramm "kg" (often shortened to just "Kilo"). Maybe Ton "t" (metric ones, of course) if you are handling large loads like building materials, but nobody uses Megagramm "Mg". Likewise with Gigagramm "Gg", where one uses Kiloton "kt". Not really SI, but still with the same conversion factors.
Going down from the Gramm, people use the Milligramm "mg", often used in pharmacy related context.
Some Austrians (especially the older ones) still use Dekagramm "dg" or Deka, primarily in cooking and baking, but these are the only outliers. Anything else is just factor 1000 for each step.
Much easier than cups, ounces, pounds, and buttloads.
we don’t like imperial, it’s not like you’ll find people (outside hicksville or maga) claiming to defend it’s superiority.
Every time metric vs imperial comes up on the internet there will be a gazillion Americans defending their system, claiming it is more "human" or some similar sort of nonsense. So yes, are a lot of Americans who will defend its alleged superiority.
Every time metric vs imperial comes up on the internet there will be a gazillion Americans defending their system, claiming it is more “human” or some similar sort of nonsense. So yes, are a lot of Americans who will defend its alleged superiority.
pfft ok bud. there are schmucks in the UK that love stones. it's a tiny minority on both sides.
If you live in a metric country you'll quickly find that nothing is sold in 1 meter length, but in steps of 300mm (wood for example).
300mm divided by 2 is 150mm.
300mm divided by 3 is 100mm.
300mm divided by 4 is 75 mm.
300mm divided by 5 is 60mm.
300mm divided by 6 is 50mm.
Even when you buy something advertised as "1-foot" you'll find it measures 300mm, because we don't buy a foot of wood here, and when you divide it by 3 you get exactly 100mm; which easily converts with any other metric measurement.
Additionally, Imperial measurements are no more, or no less, exact than metric measures. Because Imperial measures are defined using metric measures in the first place.
Edit: Also this argument would carry more weight if Imperial measures were base 12 across the board, and it isn't.
As a carpenter and lover of math, and since we're using mm and wood, cutting a 300mm length of wood equally in 3, results in 3 pieces of wood that are 100mm less the thickness of the blade.
Metric is useful but it lacks enough units for everyday use. Like milimeter is useful for measuring somethings, and meter is useful for somethings but not having a foot equivalent makes it less useful. I'd rather say 4 feet than 1.3 meters. Same with grams and kilos; not having an ounce is an oversight. I'd rather order an 8 ounce burger than a 226gram burger. Mililiters and liters are useful but not having a fl ounce makes it clumsier.
I'm familiar with Metric AND Imperial and not just because the US uses a blend but because both science and science fiction have been interests of mine since early childhood. Americans just hate syllables. 4 feet is two syllables while 1.3 meters is 5 syllables. Hell, quarts are almost the same thing as liters just with fewer syllables , same as yards and meters.
If you had more of an intuition for metric units, then it wouldn't occur to you to think of "4 feet" as something to optimize for. It means nothing. It's an entirely arbitrary preference. You'd just think "a metre and a half" and you wouldn't have to grope for "syllables" as a rationalization for it.
Definitely not. Anything below the meter is usually measured in cm; Metalworkers and engineers use mm there, and it's not an issue. Your four feet are our 120cm (not 130!), or maybe 1.2m, and it is not "odd". I'm 175cm or 1.75m high, both are commonly used.
Same with weight: Up to and around a kilogram it's just grams. And you won't find a "226gram" burger here, just to cuddle your ounces. Here, that burger would be 250g, plain and simple.
the point is you don't have to go that far in the metric system: converting between two neighboring sizes (cm and mm) is as easy as adding/removing a zero or shifting the decimal separator by one digit. but you can also convert between mm and km by doing the same thing six times without a problem.
you can't do the former with imperial units as easily, let alone the latter.
sometimes you just have numbers that are too small or big for a unit. convert 1079 inches to feet. or convert 0.000419 miles to inches. I can do 1079 cm to m or 0.000419 km to cm instantly.
You're not addressing my criticism at all here. Yes, I get it: you can slide back and forth between kilometers and millimeters with the greatest of ease. Cool. Awesome.
My criticism isn't about the ease in converting. My criticism is more "when are we actually using that feature?"
And the answer is, of course, "rarely". Rarely do we find a practical need for a single measurement with both the magnitude of a kilometer/mile and the precision of a centimeter/inch.
As a practical matter, the ability to easily make that conversion is nice, of course. But not particularly useful.
first of all that's not a criticism. criticism would be pointing out a fault.
second of all i gave you an example of when you would use it. when you have sizes too small or too big, it's just easier to switch to the other unit. again, the point isn't to have easy conversion between a km and cm, it's to have easy conversion between all steps.
it's funny how you're not addressing the fact that I'm telling you that you can't even easily switch between feet and inches, two of the closest and most frequently used units, but you keep bringing miles into it as if the entire reason we have the metric system is just so we can cover km to cm. why are glossing over being able to instantly convert cm to mm and vice versa? what about m to km? yeah because that's much more useful and common so your entire argument would crumble.
forget miles. tell me how many feet 17.05 inches make. you can't which is why you're always forced to use double units, feet and inches, and you still have to use fractions or decimals on top of that because inches aren't precise enough for anything to begin with. covering 17.05" to 1' 5.05" just makes it more complicated for no reason. not to mention it's terrible notation and looks messy as fuck when you're writing dimensions.
it's funny how you're not addressing the fact that I'm telling you that you can't even easily switch between feet and inches, two of the closest and most frequently used units,
Again, why would I convert them?
If I need to cut a board to a precision of inches, why would I even bother with feet? It's 119 inches, not 9'11" (9-foot 11-inches). It's 987 centimeters, not 9 meters, 87 centimeters. You're not going to hear "foot" when building an American house, because everything is done in inches.
I've got a tape measure that doesn't even have foot markings, but multiples of 16" are marked, because our wall studs are commonly framed on 16" centers.
That is the point I am trying to convey: conversion is rarely important in practice. Just start with the unit that provides sufficient precision, and don't bother switching. There are plenty of good reasons to use metric, but in practice, unit conversion just isn't one of them.
tell me how many feet 17.05 inches make
Why would I ever need that in feet? You're just not paying attention here.
I don't have .05" markings on my tape measure. I could get to 17.125 (17-1/8") or 17.0625 (17-1/16"), or just 17", depending on the degree of precision needed.
To even get a measurement of 17.05", I'd need to be using an 18" micrometer, as we do use decimal inches in machining. But again, we wouldn't use "feet" at all for such a measurement. There is no practical purpose in making that conversion.
Metric or imperial, the chosen unit implies the degree of required precision. If I'm using feet, I don't need precision tighter than half a foot. If I need precision tighter than that, I'm not using foot.
Btw how much concrete i should mix when i need 4 inch deep, 37 feet long and 13 feet wide pour, there is also 3,5 feet x 6 feet alcove. Lets add large pole or some other round shape on the mix with diameter of 46 3/4 inches on the middle of the structure.
Wonder how many trips i nees to make to the hardware store when one bag of the concrete weigts 94 pounds and it makes 4,5 cubic feets of cement.
one bag of the concrete weigts 94 pounds and it makes 4,5 cubic feets of cement.
Based on that sentence, I'd say you should retain the services of a professional for such a task. The basic geometry is trivial, as you well know. It's everything else that is going to get you into trouble.
You don't have to mix foot, inches, and 1/8 inches? So how do you measure a room? Is it "Ten foot and a bit" or "Ten foot, 5 3/8 inches"? Or do you break it down to smaller units like "125 3/8 inches" or "1003 1/8 inches"?
Or do you break it down to smaller units like "125 3/8 inches" or "1003 1/8 inches"?
This. Building a house, wall studs are on 16" (sixteen inch) centers, not 1'4" (one foot four inch), even though those are the same length. Roof joists are usually on 24" centers, not 2', even though those are the same.
Most of your lumber is going to be 120" or less, so most of the measurements you're going to be making are less than that.
If I'm measuring a room in feet, it is to give a rough estimate. It's easy to compare two different bedrooms by saying one is 8x10 and the other is 10x12. The actual dimensions might differ by up to 6", but they are close enough for a reasonable comparison.
Would it not be better to just use accurate numbers?
There is just so much unnecesary mental gymnastics. You are using a lot words like "usually" or "most".
Would it not be better to just use accurate numbers?
"Accuracy" depends on the task. The framing guy needs about 1/8th inch precision. Drywall guy needs about 1/4". Baseboards, 1/16th or tighter. The buyer needs to the nearest foot to compare. The painter can skip the foot and go straight to the nearest yard.
I challenge the value and necessity of unit conversion, and you throw in the towel? As though this trivial, boring feature of the metric system is the only value it brings to the table?
I haven't done anything to defend US Customary Units (not Imperial. Imperial units are what the UK uses when they aren't using Metric, and they don't always match US units even though they have the same names).
The only point I've presented is that "unit conversion" is not a particularly interesting feature. When I use metric, it is not with the idea that I'll be bouncing decimal points back and forth with reckless abandon.
The real value of metric is that everyone uses it.
Of course. And you select the unit you need based on the degree of precision required for the task. You're not arbitrarily bouncing decimal points around for shits and giggles. The ability to do that is a cool bit of trivia, but in practice, it's not particularly useful.
240 Comments
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 42 pts · 334d
"1 brick equals about 1kg" - Plain. Boring. No pizazz.
"1 brick equals about 37 baby chicks." - Fun. Whimsical. Oozing pizazz.
Cyber@feddit.uk · 11 pts · 334d
Ah, you need The Reg online standards converter
So, a 1kg brick = 0.1149 Adult Badger
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 334d
I did not know this page. Thanks for the link. This is so 100% The Register! Shoutout to the team from the "guy with the open university style beard" ;-)
Diplomjodler@feddit.org · 37 pts · 334d
But it's really easy. Wanna know how many inches are in a mile? One inch is 0.0254 m. One mile is 1609.344 m. 1609.344 / 0.0254 is 63360. There.
Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org · 13 pts · 334d
But what if there are no inches in that mile, only yards? Or parsec? Oh, wait...
ALERT@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 334d
or just eagle elbows
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 334d
i tooked astronomy in college a while ago, to know how long is 1 parsec.
drath@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 334d
I always assumed 1km = 0.6 miles because all all of the car guys yapping about 0-100 and 0-60. Good enough, tbh. Inch is 2.5cm, and there are 12 of them in a foot for some reason. Pint is slightly less than half a liter, pound is slightly less than half a kilo, and anyone mentioning stones gets stoned to death. Simple enough.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 334d
Just wait until you try to understand American cooking recipes. Cups everywhere! My favorite was "A cup of spinach", without any mentioning if they were talking about fresh spinach (losely or densily packed) or cooked/frozen one.
XM34@feddit.org · 2 pts · 334d
I always assume there's absolutely no point in expending brain cells to store this information and therefore exclusively deal in metric. (Except for DnD for some reason, but that's also about to change)
Aljernon@lemmy.today · -2 pts · 334d
I've never wanted to know how many of any unit are in a mile. It's just something I've never had reason to care about. So there's 1000 meters in a kilometer. That's just trivia to me. There's no need to know that.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · -9 pts · 334d
No. Nobody wants to know that. Nobody needs to know that.
Nobody needs a measurement with a magnitude of a mile to the precision of an inch. And if they did, they'd either measure the whole length in inches or decimal miles, not some bullshit multiple-unit travesty.
Ya'll are solving a problem that never existed in the first place.
MrFinnbean@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 334d
Railways? Large tunnels? Bridges?
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 334d
Show me.
If I'm building a railroad, I'm going to need mm precision in laying sleepers and rail, sure. But I'm not particularly interested in km magnitude while I'm driving spikes.
If I'm driving a train over that rail, I'm interested in km lengths, but I can tolerate several hundreds of meters of imprecision in those measurements. No need to convert to meters, let alone mm for that measurement.
The closest I'll come to needing both km magnitude and mm precision is in figuring out how much material to order.
But, when I do that, what I will actually be converting isn't length to length. I'll be figuring out how many sleepers per km, how many rail segments per km, how many buckets of spikes per km. None of those will be simple metric unit conversions.
VoterFrog@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 334d
This is actually the primary strength of imperial and the impetus behind most of its conversion ratios. Base 10 is just terrible for being divided. But if you have a mile of railroad, you can place your rail and stakes regularly at almost any foot-length and come out even.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 334d
Exactly. Our base-ten number system is cursed. A base-twelve metric system would be gorgeous. Our existing clocks would already be metric.
In addition to scaling by "10" (pronounced "ten"), current Metric Rulers commonly scale by 2 when going from centimeter to 1/2 centimeter markings, or by 5 when going from cm to 2mm markings, depending on the degree of precision required. Rarely do rulers actually scale from cm to 1mm. You typically need calipers to make measurements smaller than 2mm.
With base-twelve, we'd still be able to scale by "10" (pronounced "twelve"), but we'd also be able to scale by 2, 3, 4, or 6.
antipiratgruppen@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 329d
I'm pretty sure most rulers and measuring tapes I've ever seen had 1 mm markings.
We're talking rulers of typically 10-30 cm marked length and made of plastic or metal, and longer measuring tapes made of either flimsy metal (in a casing with a lock-button) or those softer textile tapes.
The only exception I can think of, that has only 1 cm markings, is a wooden 1 m teachers' ruler made for blackboard use. But you do you with the calipers.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 329d
Shows you how many metric rulers I've used... In my experience, most have four marks, at 2mm, 4mm, 6mm, and 8mm. Some have only had the 5mm mark. But searching for images, I can't find any that look like the tapes I'm using, so my experience must not be the norm.
joel_feila@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 334d
Well the main reason why the metric caught was there were many many mny versions of older systems in place. You may have heard a french inch was different then an English inch. But it was way more complex then just that.
Even in a single country different industries could all use a gallon but have it be different. Need 39 yards of rope for your ship? Well is that paris or vince yards? Also better remember the currency conversion.
Having one system was better since everyone could now agree on how long something was. This is also why metric time failed to catch on. Everyone agreed on days, weeks, years etc etc.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 334d
Bingo. That's the true advantage of the metric system: everyone uses it. Unit conversion is a highly overrated function.
Metric time will only catch on if and when we adopt interplanetary travel and are no longer fundamentally tied to the rotation and revolution of a particular rock around a particular star.
JPSound@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 334d
I'm an American and every last bit of my shop is metric. It is the superior unit of measurement in every aspect. I don't bother with imperial at all. If I have to list dimensions online in imperial, just multiply mm x 25.4 which gives me inches. That's as far as Ill go into inches and feet.
I've said this before and Ill say it again, the US was robbed of the superior unit of measurement.
monotremata@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 334d
Uh, I'm pretty sure you divide mm/25.4 to get inches.
JPSound@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 333d
Yes. I misspoke. Millimeters ÷ 25.4= inches. Inches x 25.4 = mm.
monotremata@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 333d
Sorry. I just thought it was funny in the context of a post about how it's hard to remember all the conversions for imperial.
Sunshine@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 333d
Thank you for your efforts!
Tweak@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 332d
What temperature is the shop kept at?
JPSound@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 332d
Fahrenheit. Switching to Kelvin soon, tho. For shop temp accuracy!
Dadifer@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 334d
So, from my perspective, your experience gives me the exact opposite view. The fact is: no one is stopping us. Anyone in American can use metric any time they want. We use Imperial a significant amount of time because it's useful. Feet and inches are related to body parts. Kilometers are too small for our giant country. I design surgical tools, and I use metric. I design buildings, and I use feet and inches.
I don't really think it's slowing us down to have more than one system.
OxiZero@feddit.uk · 15 pts · 333d
Fortunately for NASA, space is actually smaller than the USA. Otherwise km would be totally unworkable.
I'm guessing that you have to use meters instead of yards when designing tall buildings? Yards would be too small for most skyscrapers.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 333d
The reasonable reaction I've come to expect from Lemmy users.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 333d
Could it possibly be because your argument is shit?
Griffus@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 333d
Say that to the Mars Climate Orbiter
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 333d
You still have to know which system you're using, obviously.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 333d
Which would not ever be an issue if you knobheads just switched to metric.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 4 pts · 333d
Kilometers aren't the biggest measurement in metric though.
It goes: Kilometer x1000= Megameter x1000= Gigameter x1000= Terameter. A Terameter is about 10^12^ meter
Just as it goes smaller like: Milimeter /1000= Micrometer /1000= Nanometer /1000= Picometer
And even those are still not the biggest or smallest measurements possible in metric.
Hagdos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
That's true in theory, but if you talk about megameters to a European you'll get very weird looks.
An engineer will understand what you mean, but still laugh at you.
But it's a non-issue for anything on earth, where you'll have 40.000 kilometers at most. Not a lot of time is spent talking about x thousand kilometer.
Any notion that a kilometer is "too small" is laughable.
JPSound@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 332d
Lol. Dude, with all due respect, did you skip breakfast or something? First, body parts? Take a drink of water, please. You're dehydrated. Also, although I agree imperial isn't completely useless, one of its strengths is not because the size of the contental United States. It's not like miles and kilometers are orders of magnitude different when measuring an identical distance. Lightyears and astronomical units are terrible units to use to describe a drive from LA to NYC for this reason, but is it really that big if a deal between choosing miles and kilometers? I don't see it that way.
The main reason why I use metric with my work is because I commonly deal in millimeters / sub-inches. If I used inches, everything would be shitty fractions and I hate fractions. To me, metric is just cleaner when increasing or decreasing magnitudes. Which I generally stay within cm and mm.
Within industrial applications, such a building a structure in the US, yeah, it makes sense to stick ti imperial because it is indeed the national unit of measurement. But outside that reason, I don't find much of a benefit. Coincidentally, I moved off grid 3 weeks ago and am building a cabin way out in the woods. Because its just me and I plan to stay here until my end, I'll definitely use metric. If I was just developing a place I intended to flip, I'd use Imperial singularly because I'm in the US.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
Ad hominim attacks. The bread and butter of Lemmy.
JPSound@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
I don't think you read my response. I wasn't attacking you at all. I'm not one of those mean shits on here. I certainly meant no aggression.
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 20 pts · 334d
Yeah but can we talk about time?
As quoted in the GNU coreurils documentation for date input formats
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 334d
The units are complicated because our world is complicated. The moon orbits the earth in a certain interval, the earth orbit the sun and the earth revolves around itself. Those are the major points of reference but none of them line up.
Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 334d
Best of all, none of those natural reference values are constant. They drift gradually, and lunar months won’t be 30 days forever just like a day won’t be 24 hours in the future.
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 5 pts · 334d
Hmm, I wonder... our current standard of time might end up being the standard for a long time, primarily because of GPS. Before we had global data networks it wasn't really possible to syncronize clocks all around the world. There used to be a telephone service that you could dial which would tell you "The time is now eight fifty-five PM" or w/e because that was the most effective way to distribute a coordinated time signal, and then you could manually set your local clock/watch to match.
But GPS depends heavily on accurate time information, and keeping it accurate is very complicated. Relativitistic time dilation applies because the satellites are:
(that's right, using GPS on your phone is a real-world demonstration of the theory of relativity in practical effect)
..and all those satellites are constantly checking in with each other and ground stations to make sure they're in agreement.
As a result there is now a de facto standard time reference for the entire world, and all networked devices depend on it for their own timing, and it is accurate to microseconds at worst.
100 years ago people were still winding mechanical clocks every day, and setting them by the local churchbell.
Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 334d
Yep. This stuff is surprisingly complicated, and that’s why we need to measure the day using a standardized unit instead of defining the unit with the day.
Incidentally, Wikipedia has a nice graph about the variation of the length of day. It’s surprisingly messy and pretty far from the ideals of antiquity.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 334d
Planck second is constant.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
The lunar month is currently ~29.5306 days (synodic, on average). Some day in the future (probably in a few million years), the average synodic moon cycle will reach 30 days (it is slowing down) - if, and that is a big if - we keep the current definition of "second" and "day", because both the length of the day as well as the lenght of the year will have changed...
Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 334d
I suggest we switch to Planck based units. Just slap on a suitable multiplier to make the final unit practical in normal life and engineering. Basically like the mol unit but with a more precise and natural foundation.
If the fundamental constants of the universe aren’t exactly constant, we’re screwed and there are no good units.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 334d
The way we split them is still purely arbitrary though. We could have metric time that uses multiples of 10 just by adjusting the duration of a second accordingly and adjusting how we divide time in a day.
Days of the calendar would be more challenging. But it's still possible to make something much more workable I'm sure of it.
LawfulPirate@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 334d
Have a look at the international fixed calendar, used by kodak internally until 1989. 13 months of 28 days, it looks so clean
Everything months starts a Sunday (I'd rather start weeks on Monday but whatever), every second Monday is the 9th. Plus it has the advantage of keeping the 7 days week we're used to. Software excluded, it looks easy to adopt.
Alternatively there was the French revolutionary calendar with 10 days weeks and 12 months
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 334d
But what is the week for, if not to measure work and rest days? With that in mind, 8 days (5 work, 3 rest) would be ideal.
BastingChemina@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 334d
When the metric system was defined and adopted during the French revolution they changed the calendar as well.
Months were changed to be 30 days each with an extra 5-6 days at the end of the year, weeks were 10 days long, days were 10 hours of 100 minutes, each minute lasted 100 seconds.
Unfortunately it did not stick and the decimal time system was reverted.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 334d
Then there's my favorite cursed unit: the kip! 1 kip=1000 lbs. "Kip" is short for "kilo-pounds." It's a unit used frequently in American civil and structural engineering. And it is so deliciously cursed.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
Fun fact: the SI (international system of units) actually defines a multiplier "Ki", but it is not a factor of 1000. A Kisomething is 1024 something. As in 1KiB = 1024B (Kilobytes resp. Bytes).
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 334d
Isn't it even more convoluted than this?
Doesn't KiB translate to Kibibytes? Because "kilo" is 1000 (powers of 10).
Kibi is 1024, the "bi" is supposed to mean "binary", or powers of 2.
vaionko@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 334d
Yes, a kilobyte is 1000 bytes, a kibibyte is 1024 bytes. But almost always when talking about kilobytes, kibibytes are implied. Except when they aren't.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 334d
Kihex?
untorquer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
It's also about 31 slugs.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 334d
I think the mil/thou is pretty cursed.
joel_feila@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 334d
Back in the early days of telephones at&t used kft to measure lines. Yes that is kilofoot
Deflated0ne@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 334d
Being purposefully stupid and arrogant about it is the single most American thing.
0x0@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 333d
Just came here to nit-pick that the metric prefix for 10^3^ is k and not K.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 333d
Case in point: Platinum melts around 2kK.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 334d
In the US, we should make things even more confusing to anger the metric folks. I propose we redefine the "foot" every four years. The length of the foot will always correspond to the actual measured foot length of the current US president.
pyre@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 334d
the fact that you think this will anger metric folks who already don't make sense of your dumb system rather than ruin many aspects of your country ... uh ... never mind, you're already ruining many aspects of country. ignore what I was going to say. carry on.
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 334d
We should bring back hogsheads, rods, fathoms, etc.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
IIRC some of those crazy units are still referenced in certain laws of old...
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 4 pts · 334d
What if we defined a foot such that a cubic food of some good, say potatoes or something, is a specific amount of money. So it's tied to inflation.
Niquarl@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 334d
What a wondefull idea!
Pazintach@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 334d
Growing up in the Metric environment, I only have to deal with the Imperial system very rarely before the Internet. But later, I found out there's a whole country that only use Imperial, and that they almost always demand you convert your system to the one they understand, and almost never bothered with Metric when they write anything. But then again, I found out that they also use units that are totally novel. I just have to accept that this is the character of them, and continue using Metric.
AshLassay@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 334d
There is no country that only uses Imperial. Americans use grams for weed. And technically what the US uses is called US Customary. Some units are different from Imperial. Funny thing is both Imperial and US Customary are legally defined in metric.
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 334d
Yeah measures like a foot were never standardized across countries using imperial before napolean introduced metric, as the french foot was 13 inches or so, making napolean at least as tall as putin and not the 5 1 under that measure.
elbiter@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 334d
It's because they believe they're so exceptional that everything that works for the rest of the world doesn't work for them.
That includes not only the metric system but also things like healthcare, student debt and gun control.
Atomic@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 334d
Probably. Because their understanding of metric is next to none. So they don't even know what to convert it to. We also often take for granted with that we grow up with.
It wasn't until I was 25 that I realized woodworking and sewing, isn't part of the normal elementary school curriculum abroad.
It's far from easy for someone that grew up in a different system to get a good reference of what different units feel like. It's the kind of change you need multiple new generations for.
The only reference Americans have for metric is 9mm
piccolo@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 333d
Way to show your ignorance. We also buy our soda in liters.
XM34@feddit.org · 3 pts · 334d
I'm having way too much fun with refusing to convert to or even learn that abomination of a system. Whenever a Murrican starts a conversation with inches, feet, ellbows or whatever I ask them what they mean and whether they can convert that to real units please.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
Middle Earth?
BenLeMan@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 334d
Ugh. Kelvingram again.
jbk@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 334d
💔
but at least there's a space
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 334d
TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 334d
One of the most annoying things in the world are American websites that claim to sell internationally but they only offer USD and all provided measurements are in American imperial.
Right up there with online stores that only have boxes for "state" and "zip code" even if the selected country doesn't use those.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 333d
I was taught the metric system in American elementary school.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 332d
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 332d
Funny, by stereotype the North is supposed to be ahead of the South, yet I got a decent education in North Carolina in the 90's and early 00's.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 332d
Sunshine@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 333d
Americans are really falling behind these day in all the metrics 😂
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 334d
We actually use both. Imperial is easier to break into 3rds, but can still break down into other bases easily without any irrational numbers. Metric is more useful for science, but my mom who does landscaping prefers Imperial for her designs because it’s not stuck in base-10.
Europeans are the ones who refuse to learn more than one system lol
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 334d
Being a mechanical engineer in the US constantly switching between both systems really sucks. And for much more than just length and temperature
Sunshine@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 333d
This could’ve been dealt with decades ago if people weren’t afraid of change.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 333d
If the brits were able to mostly switch in the 20th century the americans should have been more than able to.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 333d
And if the weights didn't fall into the ocean.
bricklove@midwest.social · 3 pts · 334d
How many British thermal units does it take to heat up a slug of water 1 degree Celsius?
PeacefulForest@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 333d
TomasEkeli@programming.dev · 4 pts · 333d
Should be pretty easy to learn, right? I mean, that's the whole point.
sip@programming.dev · 4 pts · 332d
except for intuition formed from a lifetime of daily usage
tiredofsametab@fedia.io · 3 pts · 332d
We were taught it in my rural red state elementary school in the '80s. Maybe because metrification seemed like a more real possibility, I guess.
PeacefulForest@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
HubertManne@piefed.social · 8 pts · 333d
It annoys me so much that a small decision could have had me growing up with metric.
Sunshine@piefed.ca · 8 pts · 333d
Damn Tucker Carlson must’ve stumbled upon this post. Someone should tell him that Russians use metric.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 334d
1g water == 1ml water ==
1cm^21cm^3 waterVerdorrterpunkt@feddit.org · 2 pts · 334d
Squared centimeters for a volume measurement?
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 334d
Oops! A mistake, of course
notarobot@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 334d
Their 2.5L bottles must be huge
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
Nah you made it even worse.
Eyron@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
At 3C. 1 liter at room temperature will be about 2-3g off.
BilboBargains@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 334d
Bring forth the ceremonial cudgels, it's imperial units bashing time.
ahhh good hit, that's the stuff.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 334d
'Ow many stone does the chain weigh guv'nah?
RBWells@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 333d
I like metric weight for cooking (on the rare occasion I make something that involves careful measuring, and for my bread making) and MILES can fuck right off, km are fine for measuring long distance. And fine with meters, cm for short distance.
But I do like how feet are 12 inches, because 12 is so evenly divisible, and like that a gallon splits in half and half again and again until you get cups. It's like RAM,
Cup is 8 oz
Pint is 16 oz
Quart is 32 oz
Half Gallon is 64 oz
Gallon is 128 oz.
That doubling sequence is satisfying.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 333d
specifically woodworking I like doing in inches, because 12. For the tasks I often do in the wood shop, fractional inches work well.
I'm confortable working in both systems, but I build furniture in inches.
tiredofsametab@fedia.io · 2 pts · 332d
In metric, the 12 really isn't important anymore which kinda invalidates that. We normally go to the nearest mm or, if needed, some fraction of that (not normally needed in my life at least)
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 331d
When building wooden furniture, the ability to divide by 3 and 4 comes in handy a lot more often than dividing by 5, and I don't have to start rounding to nearest or stuff like that. For this task, inches work out better.
If I never see another inch size bolt in my life it'll be too soon.
tiredofsametab@fedia.io · 2 pts · 331d
My point is, if you're using feet and inches you maybe want to divide by that. We in the metric world don't so it's not that big a deal. Our woodworking is done in CM and MM and we rarely need fractions of mm.
Pazintach@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 330d
I do woodworking too, my father did it since youth, and he did it just fine. We don't feel the need to divide everything.
Tweak@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 332d
Your 16 oz pints are a pathetic 455ml. Europeans have 500ml.
Meanwhile a true UK pint is 568ml.
You can see why we cling to Imperialism.
bobzer@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 334d
Can anyone with a deeper understanding of the history of the metric system explain why a gram is the base unit of weight, and a litre the base unit of volume?
I thought the foundation of the system was that a kilogram is the weight of a litre of water. But then why not name them 1 thing = 1 thing rather than 1000x a thing = 1 thing.
And yes I've had four cups of coffee and no sleep today.
viking@infosec.pub · 10 pts · 334d
A gram is not the base unit, it started with one meter (hence, metric).
Kilo means thousand in Latin, so 1000 meters became one kilometer (aka, one thousand meters), and when they need smaller units, they took to Latin again, simply because the language was en vogue for science:
Deca (ten): Decimeter (dm, nowadays hardly used, but it exists) = 0.1m
Centum (hundred): Centimeter (cm) = 0.01m
Mille (thousand): milimiter (mm) 0.001m
Weights were then adopted from the dimensions based on practicality, i.e. one liter was a common enough volume that people could use it in a household, and it's defined by 1dm height x 1dm length x 1dm width. Or 10cm10cm10cm (same thing, but the base notation was units of one).
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 334d
Just FYI - Lemmy uses Markdown for formatting. In Markdown, if you surround some text in asterisks, it italicises whatever's in between.
So if you write:
*this is italicised*, you get this:this is italicised
To write
10cm*10cm*10cmyou have three options:Use in-line code (what I did twice here) - surround the text in backticks (usually the ones on the left of the number 1 on the keyboard).
Use "x" instead of "*".
"Escape" the asterisks by adding "\" before them. You'd write it like this:
10cm\*10cm\*10cm, and you'd get: 10cm*10cm*10cm.boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 334d
The big prefixes (kilo, mega, etc) are actually Greek and the small ones Latin.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
The only use of the decimetre I've seen in real life, is that the standard school rulers, being 20 cm long are commonly called "double décimètres" (in France). Maybe other places use them more.
Sub-units are a bit like regionalisms, France likes cl for liquids, many places like adding zeroes and using ml, maybe some use dl...
Tryenjer@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 334d
First they defined the meter and then one litre was defined as one dm^3.
HexagonSun@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 334d
That’s an interesting question that I’d never thought about before.
I asked chatGPT, which predictably bullshitted me and said they’d decided grams made more sense than kilograms for scientific lab work.
But then I searched and found this from the user tomalator on Reddit:
“When the French were developing the metric system, they suggested the unit be called a grave (pronounced grav) being the mass of 1L of water (1000 cm3)
The French at this time being in the middle of a revolution against the rich notice that it sounded a lot like the word Graf, being a word for Duke or Earl, and they wanted to avoid affiliating with the nobility, so they changed the measurement to be the mass of 1mL of water (1 cm3) and called it the gramme
They then noticed that it was inconvenient to use a mass unit so small, so they changed back to the 1L of water definition, but kept the name gramme for the base, and threw out the word grave in favor of the kilogramme.
And that's why the kilogram is the base SI unit and not the gram. I had the exact same question when I learned the SI unites.”
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 334d
The kilogram is mass, not weight. Weight is force. Force is measured in Newtons.
RBWells@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
4 cups, you have had a quart of coffee, sir ;)
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 334d
I believe a gram is the weight of a cubic centimeter of water, and a liter is 100 cubic centimeters of water.
The meters are kind of out there though that is something to do with like the meridian and distance between lattitudes or something I forget.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 334d
1000 cc of any substance -- or even pure volume without substance
Tweak@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 332d
Also 1L water ~ 1kg
antipiratgruppen@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 330d
And 1000 cm³ = 1L
biotin7@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 334d
American exceptionalism (& imperialism) at it's finest
Sunshine@piefed.ca · 4 pts · 333d
They’re really proving it in the comments. Maga loves imperial the most.
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 5 pts · 334d
I want to prefer imperial, but using fractions for tools is super fucking annoying when millimeters are easy, and then stores giving me price per ounce in the store, other products price per pound making me do the fucking Mental Math multiplying times 16 pisses me off.
Fractions are a stupid way to measure small distances, and ounces are a stupid way to measure it small amounts of weight.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 334d
It's just a binary search
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 334d
I could honestly care if Imperial wants to fuck men or women or both, I just don't want it to be fucking annoying when I'm trying to do work.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 334d
But at the same time, fractions are actually a better way to measure precisely. If you need to record a precision that's greater than a whole unit without being 10x as precise, decimal kinda sucks. If your precision is 1/8 a cm, you either have to round up or imply that the precision is accurate to 0.001 cm.
You can always play with a denominator to show greater precision with fractional measurements (1/8 vs 2/16 vs 8/64), but you can't easily imply lower precision with decimal.
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 5 pts · 334d
I do not agreed that fractions are a better way of measuring small distances. Decimals can be broken down infinitesimally. I don't see anything hard to understand about it, meanwhile fractions you have to like compare and contrast the denominators to find the values or break out some long division or a calculator. Fuck that.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
Okay.
How do you describe a measurement of 1 and a quarter of a centimeter precise to 1/4cm without either over-stating or under-stating precision of the measurement?
Decimal only allows you to increase or decrease precision by a factor of 10.
NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 333d
You don’t need to use significant figures to convey precision. You can also explicitly state the uncertainty, like 1.25 ± 0.25 cm.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
But even you don't know how that works.
Because 1/4cm precision would be ± 0.125cm
NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 332d
Touché
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 333d
If the Precision is necessary you just break up two decimal points, or however many to get it to where it has to be.
DicJacobus@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 333d
BUT THIS IS HOW WE ALWAYS DID IT
DahGangalang@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 334d
I have a chip on my shoulder about the metric system as it appears in sci-fi writing.
It drives me nuts that in books like The Expanse (and I think the Bobiverse and Andy Wier's works) that the writer will call distances in "thousands/millions of kilometers".
Really feels more reasonable to just go full send and call them megameters and gigameters, but maybe that's just my American non-metric mind trying to force full use of a system in a way those born to it don't actually do.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Atomic@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 334d
It's certainly a good observation. I would agree that a more practical way of measuring the vast distances is to up the scale. Giga, Terra, whatever.
A kilometer in space is nothing. It must be the equivalent of saying "it's only a million millimeter drive away"
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 334d
Megameters just is fun to say, we could make it a thing, if enough use it it becomes proper.
NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 333d
I’m onboard. Let’s get rid of the tonne also. Megagram sounds way cooler.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 334d
There we go imperial-y again, with distance to sun, distance based on angle to gobbledigook, and what not.
thelittleerik@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
Amerifats cant get over their imperialist england brain to work in tandem with rest of the world. It creates just enough division and tribality between the world the US to justify its colonial nature and settlement enterprise in the americas.
You cant bury your disgusting history.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 333d
thelittleerik@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
You are being insidious. This also contributes to the main directives. It wasnt JUST THIS.
People dont hate Trump because he is orange. But it definitely doesnt fucking help it either.
Or teams dont choose green as their team color because it helps them win more. But having these features helps with the morale.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 333d
disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
S_H_K@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 334d
My favorite fact about the metric system that blows imperial believer's minds is that if you take a 1cm thick tube you put 1 liter of water it weights 1kilogram and it it 1 meter tall the measure.
J92@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
As a brit, the only thing I care about is the extra 68ml I get in my pint.
FreeBeard@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 334d
Instead of fighting over the best arbitrary unit system we should all sit together and create a truly logical system that makes conversions - even between units - as simple as possible.
Elgenzay@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 334d
xkcd 927
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 334d
To do that, we first need to switch our number system from Base-10 to Base-12.
A metric system in Base-12 would be clean and elegant. It would play nice with geometry, trigonometry, unit circle, angular measurement, etc.
Base-10 is fucking cursed. If some Base-12 aliens came here tomorrow, they'd look at our number system like we'd look at Base-7 or Base-14.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 333d
Why should we? There are only 3 countries that don't use metric.
Why should we accommodate to something less than 5% of the population uses? Especially if it is so wildly inconsistent in every form it takes?
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 334d
Finance and hours, please?
themaninblack@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 333d
That first diagram looks exactly like the dumbass step functions in my company
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 334d
This thread is full of middle schoolers who don’t realize that you can measure things in whatever system you want, regardless of country. The whole premise of this circlejerk is faulty.
Ohmmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 333d
You can but there are real examples where mixing units results in failure. NASA lost a 125 million dollar mars probe in 1999 because JPL and NASA use metric but Lockheed Martin added acceleration data in American imperial units.
It might be a circle jerk but it is also best practice to use a standard system and there's really only one holdout on not using that system. I say this as an American who wishes people would just use metric because it's just easier unless you just fucking love fractions of an inch.
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 333d
Your example of not mixing systems up within projects is somewhat valid, but not applicable to the whole. There are a lot of uses for Imperial, and using Imperial in landscaping does not have a chance of causing catastrophic failure in rocket science.
Sunshine@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 333d
Other than it being “cultural” and laziness there’s no point in keeping imperial. Stop using an obsolete system so we Canadians can switch our stoves to Celsius without having to worry about you yanks cooking with our equipment and hurting yourselves.
I’m going to use metric for height and weight. I don’t care if some wanker American complains they can always head south if they want or visit Liberia for a getaway, get with the times already.
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 333d
The metric system, base 10, is not easily breakable into thirds without irrational numbers. In aesthetic fields, such as landscaping or interior design, the ability to break something into exact thirds, quarters, halves, fifths, sixths, and so on, is invaluable. It’s not just cultural. It sounds like it is to you, which is weird… why are you personally identifying with a unit of measurement?
I also don’t understand your Liberia reference. Could you elaborate?
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 333d
Says the metric that freaking uses fractions...
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
Find me a fraction on a meter stick, go ahead!
i_dont_want_to@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 333d
Liberia, until 2018, used the imperial system. They were one of three countries that used the imperial system, Myanmar being the third one. They are currently in the process of using metric, but it appears they are using both for now.
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 333d
Not sure why you can only go to Liberia, I’m sure you can buy a meter stick when you arrive in Europe.
Man, we should all just use the same currency so we don’t have to do all these crazy conversions! Maybe we all start just using the US dollar? /s
i_dont_want_to@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 333d
I was just explaining the Liberia part of the comment, I was not the commenter. I am American and like both metric and imperial. I prefer metric for baking and applications where higher precision is useful, but use imperial for most other things since that is what is commonly used around me.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 333d
anyone can do whatever on their own, but if it affects anyone else than that one person its not just that one person's business. I cant see the insistence of using imperial system as anything else than america has used it in the past, and therefore its american system and because america is the best it must be the best system to use and to claim anything else is to hate america.
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 333d
I’m sorry that you can’t seem to see it any other way, but that is just not reality. The imperial system has many uses that the metric system is not apt for.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 333d
for example?
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 333d
Base 10 measurement systems such as the metric system cannot divide distances into thirds or sixths without creating irrational numbers. This can be a problem for interior designers and landscape designers, for instance, who regularly need to create drafts for projects that break up measurements that way. The imperial system is more versatile in this particular instance because you can break a foot into 12 inches, which is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (yes, still wouldn’t be irrational), and 6. Much more versatile when your contractor needs to actually go out and make a measurement in the real world. While metric could be “good enough” for that purpose, it is not the most ideal.
antipiratgruppen@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 330d
Yeah, I get the idea that 12 is nicer than 10 to divide by 3, 4 and 6, but I'm pretty sure that 2.4 is an irrational number.
Edit: Is this what makes it somewhat useful anyway?:
So, for instance,
would still be useful?
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 330d
Been ages since I was in a math class and I misquoted why it’s useful. It’s not that it is rational, as 10/3 is also rational. However, 10/3 is not an integer, and therefore cannot be found on a measuring stick or tape measure. There are projects where being able to divide into exact thirds, 6ths, etc are required, and metric is not as useful for that. In a country that also uses imperial interchangeably, it makes sense to use it with projects that are better served with imperial.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 333d
i'd say its still easier to just choose desired level of precision with 3.333333333 than deal with imperial's conversion maddness, even if you can divide them evenly. I guess imperial is ok if you dont ever have to use it with any other system, but lack of combitability is quite isolationist.
With imperial, every unit is like it's own singular instance where in metric each unit is part of the system. Trying to convert between them seems like a nightmare (i dont want to even try, but i assume those who use imperial just have to.)
Like, how many inches are on 1000 miles? Try to convert that exactly in your head without using calculator or paper and within 10 seconds. How many square feet are on 37 acres? How much does 5,5 gallons of water weigh in stones?
Or lets say we have container with measurements of 3x3x3 inches (i'll be merciful and use same unit for each dimension) MysteryLiquid™ (use calculator for this one if you try to calculate it) with density of 3,337 pounds / ...perch..? or more commonly 0,00625 acres (not many area units in imperial). How much does the MysteryLiquid™ in the container weigh in stones?
In metric the density would be about 301 kg/m3.
3 inches is 0.0762 metres so container would be 0.0762^3^ which is 0,000442450728m3 which is 442.450728 cm³
So m =p x V = 301kg x 0.000442m3 = 0.133kg, try calculating that whole thing in imperial, using crazy different units without ripping out your hair. I used sensible units for metric in this one, but i could have used nanograms, mm^3^ and decimeters instead and it would just mildly inconvenience me when calculating, and also produce way bigger numbers but at least the conversion factors would remain same.
Not being able to divide some measurements in even numbers is very small price to pay for being able to calculate things more easily.
HarneyToker@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
You can use both without using them in the same project. Yes, I understand how conversions work.
You can make the same argument going the other way. Isn’t is complicated to go from metric to imperial? May as well just use imperial! See, it’s not a good argument.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 333d
well my point was to make those calculations using only imperial units, not randomly go between metric and imperial. Metric calculation was there to just illustrate how it would go using metric units.
Omnipitaph@reddthat.com · -2 pts · 333d
Everytime I see one of these posts I have to make the same comment. The US is metric, everywhere that it matters. In the military, in the medical field, and in the scientific field. The ONLY reason we haven't converted every other part of our lives to metric is that our country is 50 times the size of the average European country. Do you know how expensive it would be to replace the infrastructure we've built and maintained over the past 200 years? The tax payers could not handle that burden, and it would require every state to agree to the terms of the change for a total conversion.
At this point, it is just part of our identity. It would be like asking the French to eat day old bread. They could, but why?
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 333d
I have seen US companies try, but it is so slow.
We did customs tooling. In the 80s 90s it was inch sizing and inch components. Late 90s still inch tooling but Metric components, and so drawings would have REAM for .236 Dowel ( instead of 6mm) LOL In mid 2000s tooling was metric sized as long as it was close to a purchasable inch size from the steel foundary. So block would be 608mm wide, to order a 24" block.
So 2025 mostly you can see places working full metric.
Then there are places I have worked recently that still use Fractional inch on projects and then wonder why assembly problems arise. Like design intent is 8.541 and maybe clearance to adjacent part has to be .039". Drawing has 8 9/16 + 1/32, so not only is sizing wrong compared to mating part, the fractional inch means dude uses a tape measure by eye, rather than a 3 place decimal measure tool. It's such a mess.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 4 pts · 333d
Then why are all your english content in freaking fantasy units???
Every country switched at one time in history, the longer you wait the more expensive it becomes.
Omnipitaph@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 332d
One, they aren't fantasy units— this is real life, son.
Two, the country was built on imperial, so the trades use imperial to maintain the country. Everyone in the US grows up learning in imperial, and then learns metric when they get into physics and chemistry.
Three, I addressed the fact that WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO SWITCH. It does not matter if it is going to be more expensive in the future. We can't afford it NOW.
I understand the spirit of your reply. This is just the reality of what having 50 different states, who can't agree on anything and are loosely tied together by an over-arching government, is like.
There are 27 counties in the European Union, and they are filled with reasonable people in government(for the most part). We have 50 states that are filled with greedy little assholes who will do everything in their power to gain more power to leverage in a bid to destroy what they deem "the enemy", so they can make even more money and gain more power.
We are never going to convert wholesale to metric. We can't even agree, as a country, that poor people are people, at a government scale. That is entirely motivated by profit and nothing more.
It simply does not pay to switch to metric.
faythofdragons@slrpnk.net · -3 pts · 333d
It's also that imperial uses body measurements for basic stuff. Your foot is about a foot long, so you can pace off distances. One yard is about the length from your collarbone to the opposite wrist, so I can roughly measure fabric quickly. From your fingertip to the crook of your thumb is about five inches, and the knuckles on your fingers are about an inch apart.
I used to do industrial embroidery at an immigrant-owned shop, and the boss switched from metric to imperial because measuring a couple inches with your fingers is faster than finding a meter stick and measuring centimeters exactly. When you've got multiple inches in your margin for error, there is no need for the precision of metric, and the speed of imperial just makes more sense.
Newsteinleo@midwest.social · -4 pts · 334d
So you admit your precious meter isn't up to the task of being decided by three and you have to find ways to compensate for its inadequacy.
J92@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 334d
Metre*
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 334d
who the fuck are these absolute twats that are simping over a system of measurement? good for you, your governance made a good choice, but it was hardly like OP invented it or was responsible for the adoption, so whoop de fuckin' doo. or Le Whoop if you must convert.
we don't like imperial, it's not like you'll find people (outside hicksville or maga) claiming to defend it's superiority.
and get off your silly pretensions, for all your metric elegance the UK is still measuring shit in stones and miles.
snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 334d
Honestly who uses stone to measure their weight? And if we switched to km for roads tomorrow I'd be happy, might take a minute to adjust but it's fine.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
elder limeys
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
Brits, and only for body weight, as far as I know.
snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 333d
I just use kg, makes more sense
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
Heavily depends on the use case.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 333d
Yeah, sometime you use grams, or dekagrams, or hectograms
Or Megagrams and Gigagrams if you want to go bigger.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 333d
Nope. Household use in Europe is Gramm "g" and Kilogramm "kg" (often shortened to just "Kilo"). Maybe Ton "t" (metric ones, of course) if you are handling large loads like building materials, but nobody uses Megagramm "Mg". Likewise with Gigagramm "Gg", where one uses Kiloton "kt". Not really SI, but still with the same conversion factors.
Going down from the Gramm, people use the Milligramm "mg", often used in pharmacy related context.
Some Austrians (especially the older ones) still use Dekagramm "dg" or Deka, primarily in cooking and baking, but these are the only outliers. Anything else is just factor 1000 for each step.
Much easier than cups, ounces, pounds, and buttloads.
Niquarl@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 334d
Well the UK isn't in Europe anymore. They moved away a couple years ago. Besides the best system is the French Revolutionary System
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 333d
The UK isn't in the EU anymore. As far as I know their island didn't drift away from our continental plate.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 334d
hon hon hon mes oui yeah whatever
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 334d
They use a blend of metric and imperial as do we.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 334d
the secret of the sauce is just the right blend. give them predictable units for most things then hit them with the hogshead when they get comfortable
trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 334d
Mad?
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
Nah, about what? I didn't make the decisions. you didn't either, so if you're proud, that's fucking dumb too.
Rothe@piefed.social · 0 pts · 334d
Every time metric vs imperial comes up on the internet there will be a gazillion Americans defending their system, claiming it is more "human" or some similar sort of nonsense. So yes, are a lot of Americans who will defend its alleged superiority.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 333d
pfft ok bud. there are schmucks in the UK that love stones. it's a tiny minority on both sides.
Newsteinleo@midwest.social · -10 pts · 334d
Please divide one of your fancy meters in a third. I'll wait here for you to finish repeating the number 3.
Noite_Etion@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 334d
If you live in a metric country you'll quickly find that nothing is sold in 1 meter length, but in steps of 300mm (wood for example).
Even when you buy something advertised as "1-foot" you'll find it measures 300mm, because we don't buy a foot of wood here, and when you divide it by 3 you get exactly 100mm; which easily converts with any other metric measurement.
Additionally, Imperial measurements are no more, or no less, exact than metric measures. Because Imperial measures are defined using metric measures in the first place.
Edit: Also this argument would carry more weight if Imperial measures were base 12 across the board, and it isn't.
uhmbah@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 334d
As a carpenter and lover of math, and since we're using mm and wood, cutting a 300mm length of wood equally in 3, results in 3 pieces of wood that are 100mm less the thickness of the blade.
prema@hachyderm.io · 0 pts · 334d
@Noite_Etion @Newsteinleo easy. When i need 25 cm wood, i simply ask for 5/6 of foot wood
Rothe@piefed.social · 3 pts · 334d
Unlike Americans, we aren't actually afraid of decimals.
Newsteinleo@midwest.social · 1 pts · 334d
You should, rounding errors can be a real problem
Aljernon@lemmy.today · -14 pts · 334d
Metric is useful but it lacks enough units for everyday use. Like milimeter is useful for measuring somethings, and meter is useful for somethings but not having a foot equivalent makes it less useful. I'd rather say 4 feet than 1.3 meters. Same with grams and kilos; not having an ounce is an oversight. I'd rather order an 8 ounce burger than a 226gram burger. Mililiters and liters are useful but not having a fl ounce makes it clumsier.
jbrains@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 334d
Your preferences mean nothing. You prefer what's familiar, just like everyone else.
Aljernon@lemmy.today · -4 pts · 334d
I'm familiar with Metric AND Imperial and not just because the US uses a blend but because both science and science fiction have been interests of mine since early childhood. Americans just hate syllables. 4 feet is two syllables while 1.3 meters is 5 syllables. Hell, quarts are almost the same thing as liters just with fewer syllables , same as yards and meters.
jbrains@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 334d
Sure.
If you had more of an intuition for metric units, then it wouldn't occur to you to think of "4 feet" as something to optimize for. It means nothing. It's an entirely arbitrary preference. You'd just think "a metre and a half" and you wouldn't have to grope for "syllables" as a rationalization for it.
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 333d
You're grasping at straws here bud
jbrains@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 333d
Cool. Peace.
Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 334d
1.3 meter is actually 4.2651 feet.
That's dumb and a lot more syllables.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 0 pts · 333d
If you actually were familiar with metric, you wouldn't say dumb shit like:
Because you'd actually know about things like centimeter and decimeter.
So no, you are definitely not familiar with metric. Try to learn sometime.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 334d
Definitely not. Anything below the meter is usually measured in cm; Metalworkers and engineers use mm there, and it's not an issue. Your four feet are our 120cm (not 130!), or maybe 1.2m, and it is not "odd". I'm 175cm or 1.75m high, both are commonly used.
Same with weight: Up to and around a kilogram it's just grams. And you won't find a "226gram" burger here, just to cuddle your ounces. Here, that burger would be 250g, plain and simple.
DmMacniel@feddit.org · 5 pts · 334d
What even is a fluid ounce? And what feet, yours, mine?
imetators@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 334d
I may be not accustomed to US lifestyle but why in the fuck anyone would order a burger by the weight of the patty? Can you order 7,5 ounces? 12?
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 334d
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 333d
A foot equivalent? You mean like a decimeter?
An ounce equivalent? You mean like a dekagram?
Metric has everything you claim it doesn't. And much more than your little imperial brain can comprehend.
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 328d
I don't know if you're aware of this but Metric only works in powers of ten. I'm suggesting that's a weakness.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · -20 pts · 334d
Why are we converting between units all the time? Why is this so big of a deal?
When in your daily lives do you actually need the precision of a millimeter and the magnitude of a kilometer?
pyre@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 334d
ask NASA i guess.
the point is you don't have to go that far in the metric system: converting between two neighboring sizes (cm and mm) is as easy as adding/removing a zero or shifting the decimal separator by one digit. but you can also convert between mm and km by doing the same thing six times without a problem.
you can't do the former with imperial units as easily, let alone the latter.
sometimes you just have numbers that are too small or big for a unit. convert 1079 inches to feet. or convert 0.000419 miles to inches. I can do 1079 cm to m or 0.000419 km to cm instantly.
Hupf@feddit.org · 3 pts · 334d
Or convert 0.002 cents to dollars.
pyre@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
what
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 334d
That sounds like a reference to Verizon Math
zourn@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
That's just 0.002 dollars, right?
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · -3 pts · 334d
You're not addressing my criticism at all here. Yes, I get it: you can slide back and forth between kilometers and millimeters with the greatest of ease. Cool. Awesome.
My criticism isn't about the ease in converting. My criticism is more "when are we actually using that feature?"
And the answer is, of course, "rarely". Rarely do we find a practical need for a single measurement with both the magnitude of a kilometer/mile and the precision of a centimeter/inch.
As a practical matter, the ability to easily make that conversion is nice, of course. But not particularly useful.
pyre@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 334d
first of all that's not a criticism. criticism would be pointing out a fault.
second of all i gave you an example of when you would use it. when you have sizes too small or too big, it's just easier to switch to the other unit. again, the point isn't to have easy conversion between a km and cm, it's to have easy conversion between all steps.
it's funny how you're not addressing the fact that I'm telling you that you can't even easily switch between feet and inches, two of the closest and most frequently used units, but you keep bringing miles into it as if the entire reason we have the metric system is just so we can cover km to cm. why are glossing over being able to instantly convert cm to mm and vice versa? what about m to km? yeah because that's much more useful and common so your entire argument would crumble.
forget miles. tell me how many feet 17.05 inches make. you can't which is why you're always forced to use double units, feet and inches, and you still have to use fractions or decimals on top of that because inches aren't precise enough for anything to begin with. covering 17.05" to 1' 5.05" just makes it more complicated for no reason. not to mention it's terrible notation and looks messy as fuck when you're writing dimensions.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · -1 pts · 334d
Again, why would I convert them?
If I need to cut a board to a precision of inches, why would I even bother with feet? It's 119 inches, not 9'11" (9-foot 11-inches). It's 987 centimeters, not 9 meters, 87 centimeters. You're not going to hear "foot" when building an American house, because everything is done in inches.
I've got a tape measure that doesn't even have foot markings, but multiples of 16" are marked, because our wall studs are commonly framed on 16" centers.
That is the point I am trying to convey: conversion is rarely important in practice. Just start with the unit that provides sufficient precision, and don't bother switching. There are plenty of good reasons to use metric, but in practice, unit conversion just isn't one of them.
Why would I ever need that in feet? You're just not paying attention here.
I don't have .05" markings on my tape measure. I could get to 17.125 (17-1/8") or 17.0625 (17-1/16"), or just 17", depending on the degree of precision needed.
To even get a measurement of 17.05", I'd need to be using an 18" micrometer, as we do use decimal inches in machining. But again, we wouldn't use "feet" at all for such a measurement. There is no practical purpose in making that conversion.
Metric or imperial, the chosen unit implies the degree of required precision. If I'm using feet, I don't need precision tighter than half a foot. If I need precision tighter than that, I'm not using foot.
MrFinnbean@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 334d
Sure.
Btw how much concrete i should mix when i need 4 inch deep, 37 feet long and 13 feet wide pour, there is also 3,5 feet x 6 feet alcove. Lets add large pole or some other round shape on the mix with diameter of 46 3/4 inches on the middle of the structure.
Wonder how many trips i nees to make to the hardware store when one bag of the concrete weigts 94 pounds and it makes 4,5 cubic feets of cement.
Should i just eye ball it?
pyre@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 334d
by the sound of how they measure things with imperial units you might as well eyeball it.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 334d
Based on that sentence, I'd say you should retain the services of a professional for such a task. The basic geometry is trivial, as you well know. It's everything else that is going to get you into trouble.
MrFinnbean@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
Yeah. Sorry i mixed cement and concrete up. You know. That can happen when you writing in language that is only your third most proficient.
And nice evasion for reacting to the example.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 334d
You don't have to mix foot, inches, and 1/8 inches? So how do you measure a room? Is it "Ten foot and a bit" or "Ten foot, 5 3/8 inches"? Or do you break it down to smaller units like "125 3/8 inches" or "1003 1/8 inches"?
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 334d
This. Building a house, wall studs are on 16" (sixteen inch) centers, not 1'4" (one foot four inch), even though those are the same length. Roof joists are usually on 24" centers, not 2', even though those are the same.
Most of your lumber is going to be 120" or less, so most of the measurements you're going to be making are less than that.
If I'm measuring a room in feet, it is to give a rough estimate. It's easy to compare two different bedrooms by saying one is 8x10 and the other is 10x12. The actual dimensions might differ by up to 6", but they are close enough for a reasonable comparison.
MrFinnbean@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
Would it not be better to just use accurate numbers? There is just so much unnecesary mental gymnastics. You are using a lot words like "usually" or "most".
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 333d
"Accuracy" depends on the task. The framing guy needs about 1/8th inch precision. Drywall guy needs about 1/4". Baseboards, 1/16th or tighter. The buyer needs to the nearest foot to compare. The painter can skip the foot and go straight to the nearest yard.
MrFinnbean@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 333d
I give up. If you really think that is better way than using metric you truly deserve the imperial system you have.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 333d
Where are you getting this?
I challenge the value and necessity of unit conversion, and you throw in the towel? As though this trivial, boring feature of the metric system is the only value it brings to the table?
I haven't done anything to defend US Customary Units (not Imperial. Imperial units are what the UK uses when they aren't using Metric, and they don't always match US units even though they have the same names).
The only point I've presented is that "unit conversion" is not a particularly interesting feature. When I use metric, it is not with the idea that I'll be bouncing decimal points back and forth with reckless abandon.
The real value of metric is that everyone uses it.
ColdWater@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 334d
Yes
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 333d
You do know we have everything between a millimeter and a kilometer as well, right?
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 333d
Of course. And you select the unit you need based on the degree of precision required for the task. You're not arbitrarily bouncing decimal points around for shits and giggles. The ability to do that is a cool bit of trivia, but in practice, it's not particularly useful.
imetators@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 334d
Yes, lol. Nobody says 3500 meters or 0.159 Kilometers. But it is easy to convert if needed.
thanksforallthefish@literature.cafe · 2 pts · 334d
Athletics competitions would like a word...
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 334d
Outside half of the job market? Pretty often.
TheTurner@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 334d