I would waterboard myself with a tall cold frothy glass of whole chocolate milk. I'm a dirty little milk slut. I think I was essentially stockholmed into it. I remember being like "ew fat bad" as a kid and drinking skim for cereal. But somewhere down the line that turned into me just slopping heavy whipping cream neat. I mean fuck me I'm drinking a chocolate milk on my walk to work right fucking now.
I once drank so much milk I did puke. 10/10 experience tbh, cause like, I love milk. But also that was a good solid push during the purge phase of that.
This is true, but drinking two liters of milk is a lot less dangerous than drinking two liters of water, because that much water at once will throw your electrolyte balance off, and that's what can kill you. Milk has electrolytes in it so the effect isn't necessarily as dire. But... still wouldn't recommend it.
Fuck I did once drink 3L of water in the span of 20 minutes just to see how much I could drink. After about 2.5L you can barely even drink at all. Not to mention how hard you have to go piss
Water also has electrolytes in it, unless you are drinking RO or distilled water (which is perfectly safe by the way, the urban myth that drinking distilled water will kill you is incorrect)
Dude when I'm running a race I have to walk while drinking the tiny little paper cup of water they give you enroute because the physical activity combined with drinking something makes my stomach churn (nerves might also be playing a factor since I'm still at the stage where every race I'm excited but also too nervous to eat and struggle to get enough calories in before the race)
Once I learned fat is good, I started laying heavy layers of butter, lots of cheese, drinking whole milk, etc. And it tastes good, because we've evolved to like what's good for us.
Lots of tasty berries will kill you. So will tons of would-be herbs. Processed sugar is delicious. So are a lot of foods with trans fats. Cyanide apparently tastes like almonds. And kids ate lead paint chips because they were sweet.
In certain cases, sure. But for the most part, if it tastes good and can be found in nature ready to eat, it's usually good for you. But yes yes yes, certain conditions apply, etc etc yadda yadda.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with it as a food, like most other foods, but it’s not a health panacea as it was portrayed in milk advertising previously. Its main drawback for public health is that it is fairly calorically dense, so while it may be better for you than soda, for those looking to lose weight, milk should not be your primary beverage.
Also: the dairy industry is questionable at best, from an animal treatment standpoint, as well as environmental.
Uhh, the people saying saturated fats clog arteries are right. Which is why the American Heart Association recommends aiming to keep it under 6% of total calories, as well as seeking to replace saturated fats with sources of unsaturated fats.
You are absolutely on a path to heart attack if you don't reign in those kinds of foods.
Your sensory pleasure really shouldn't be rated anywhere close to a beings wish to avoid suffering. Not going to respond to anything more you post because your first comment was basic troll bait and this conversation with openers like yours will go nowhere and make me angry.
It's entirely possible to take only excess milk from a cow, especially as she will continue to lactate for as long as you continue to milk her. But I also feel it's important for you to know that in the industrial dairy industry what they do is get her pregnant, take the calf away immediately after birth, and then get her pregnant again soon after.
I'm not sure what you mean. She would be feeding the calf if they didn't take it away from her. I'm not sure what percentage of them are allowed to grow up, given the popularity of veal.
They will continue to produce milk, but in factory farming they're impregnated roughly once a year to keep the amount of milk high and to give it more marketable qualities.
My family took care of a small herd of dairy goats when I was growing up. They could definitely make their displeasure known if you tried to make them do something they didn't want to (especially when they were very nearly your own weight). Milking time? Most days they were perfectly happy to jump up on the stand for us to relieve their udders for them, sometimes even before we'd gotten everything set up.
I am careful where I get my milk from because the big dairy institutions are rather problematic. And I agree that the broad disempowerment and incarceration inherent in farming is an issue on its own. But saying that milk is always, unequivocally, unwanted theft (and respectively that farms provide an unqualified worse life) is just the other side of the same human-exceptionalism coin -- you're removing their agency to say "yes".
Ah, good to know you have a argument ready to allow you to move the goalposts, and that you won't accept any solutions for achieving utopia that don't come out of the gate already perfect.
To be equally blunt, my response wasn't "all eight billion people should drink small-farm milk", it was "you're being anthropocentric in a very similar vein to saying all other animals are automata." If you really do think humans are the only species which can have and express desires and dislikes, then enjoy your biological essentialism.
But you do guess, because it's a cow. You don't know you aren't a cow (I guess?).
60 years ago they thought that babies did not feel pain. I suppose we can always rely on our intuition to tell us what's true or not.
Some people still think animals don't feel pain, or have feelings at all. Anybody who has spent time with one of them will know that's bs.
Why couldn't cows have a concept similar to what we consider property? Just because they are "inferior" to you.
The aggression and name calling in that second image reminded me of r/neverbrokeabone. I don't miss much about reddit, but that particular subreddit was pretty damn funny usually.
Someone would post an X-ray of a broken pinky they got in a car crash and everyone would be like "GTFO of here with your little baby bird bones, you calcium-deficient piece of shit!"
when I was a kid, among the things I would never have expected to stumble upon, near the top of the list in fact, there was "calcium supremacism abuse kink"
I did not wake up with any expectations of learning about Calcium Supremacism Abuse Kink this fine hallowed morning, nor any other morning for that matter thank you very much!
In fairness, China's southern and western provinces have historically been on the shorter side. But also, like.... Yao Ming.
90% of the population is lactose intolerant
You can improve lactose tolerance if you introduce milk to kids at an early age and drink it continuously. My 50s-era Jewish family are all horribly lactose intolerant, but I grew up chugging the stuff and do just fine with it. Plenty of ABCs can and do drink milk and eat dairy, just as a matter of living in a country so full of cows and cow-products.
What happens in another 20-40 years, as we obliterate our grazing lands and drive the cost cow products skyward? Idk, man. But milk is a consumer staple for a reason. Calorically dense. Very useful in cooking/baking. Relatively cheap to produce and distribute. Goes well over cereal.
If milk did not exist, we would have to invent it.
We invented alternatives, definitely. But there are still plenty of trade-offs. Much lower in calories and saturated fats, for instance.
If you're trying to fatten up a skinny little baby (as I'm currently working on, having placed with a toddler a few months back) the pediatrician is going to stare daggers at you if you say you've been giving the kid oat milk rather than whole milk. Literally had this conversation already and got hit in the head with a stack of literature just for asking.
Milk is a highly effective method of fattening kids up who are malnourished or otherwise underfed. Whole milk is the go-to for toddlers coming off breastmilk/formula for a reason.
Dairy is literally the least sustainable and least efficient form of food production next to meat and palm oil.
Natural gas is a leading contributor to climate change. It is also the cheapest (for the moment) form of energy per kWh.
"Sustainability" is not the same thing as "Cheap" or "Easy to Distribute". Quite the opposite.
Now, a lot of our cheap milk is a byproduct of our intensive animal agriculture, which is highly profitable but dismally inefficient. If that changes (because we killed a big chunk of our cow herds by mismanaging grazing land and water rights and fucking up disease mitigation) then I can see a world in which cow-milk drops off the menu quickly.
I can remember when I'd come home from high school, if I smelled oatmeal chocolate chip cookies, I'd know my mom would have saved me some of the dough in a Tupperware in the fridge. I'd get it, a spoon, and a half gallon jug of milk and sit down in front of the TV until they were both gone.
I was super active, and really skinny, but it still seems funny to think about now.
My parents rationed the fuck out of our milk because my mom would have Carnation Instant Breakfast (basically chocolate milk possibly with some additives?) every day as her breakfast and they couldn't be arsed to buy an extra half or full gallon of milk per week.
I also grew up hating the carbonation in soda so I'd literally only drink milk or water, which turned out to be very handy in adulthood since soda is so terrible for you (and expensive! Holy crap a single box of cans is like $8 and soda drinkers usually want 2-3 of those a week! Also i just realized that's 48-72 cans of soda a week meaning for two adults probably drink 3-5 cans a day!)
It's the best pairing for coffee out of all the milk or milk alternatives options in my personal opinion. Regular milk just makes it to... is it dumb to say milky?
I've heard that too about the almond milk. I do bake a decent bit with oat milk and never have issues though (I imagine some items may be pickier than others though. Also not sure if using full fat oatly makes a difference vs 'regular')
I was raised a dairy milk fiend and oat milk is definitely my go to.
My family used to drink two gallons a day, my dad alone would drink one by himself... Yes he does have the diabeetus now if you were wondering how that's going
Do you put almond milk in your coffee? I once tried that and it tasted like pure cyankali. Oat drink is a bit better, but for my coffee I personally still prefer real milk.
I hate milk so much. The taste, the texture. Just the thought of drinking a glass of milk again makes me want to projectile vomit. I had to drink a glass of milk for dinner every night as a kid. I wasn't allowed to leave the table until it was gone. Sometimes I'd sit there for an hour just trying to force myself to drink it. My parents were like, just drink the milk, it's not so bad, get it over with, but it felt like being tortured every night. I was violently ill afterwards almost every time.
Turns out I'm both lactose intolerant and neurodivergent. Yes I was being a little drama queen, but I at least had reasons :)
Who knew? One-size fits all health guidance doesn't actually work!
Supporting you, not trying to diminish your experience.
I was made to spell 'pepsi' before getting caffeinated sugar syrup at dinner. Looking back, that seems like poor decision making on my parents' part, but I can see the good intended behind the act. Hopefully we learn from those that came before... and make new and exciting mistakes!
Weird. I loved milk as a kid and still do. We were never forced to drink it, but we were encouraged a bit. One of my favorite snacks was banana chocolate milk, and I still enjoy a bowl of cold cereal.
The only thing I was forced to eat as a kid was veggies.
I’m on the older end of Gen Z and this was definitely a thing when I was little. My parents didn’t buy into the milk thing, but I had a teacher who went wild with it. I forget how exactly it happened, but she found out I had cereal for breakfast without milk poured on because that was how I liked it. She decided this meant my parents were neglecting my needs and that it was her job to “make up” for it during lunch time.
I’d often end up sick trying to get it all down. I’m not lactose intolerant, it was just that the amount she required me to drink (five cartons one after another) was more than I could keep down. (Years later, when The Gallon Challenge became a thing, it brought back the memories, though at least I wasn’t forced to drink quite that much.)
I’d rarely gotten sick before, so once I was being sent home for vomiting frequently, my parents learned what was happening and made it stop.
It only lasted a couple weeks, but I never drank milk again afterwards, so that teacher accomplished the exact opposite of what she wanted.
She might have been, since I grew up in the US south and so the area was predominantly Christian, but I don’t know (or just can’t remember) if she was. It wasn’t a religious school, though.
Milk used to make me so sick my little ten year old body projectile vomitted it across the breakfast table and my parents, who'd seen 10¹⁰ milk commercials, were like "maybe you're not drinking enough milk."
my god..... that's ten billion ads.... if each ad lasts 30s, then your parents started watching milk ads 9510 years ago... that puts us roughly..... no wait.. -it can't be..!
Lmao. I was too skeptical to accept this at first, so I double-checked both the math and the date.
Incredibly, everything checks out.
Hm, now I'm imagining OP's parents having lived so long due to being the first vampires. They saw others drinking milk and thought, "Wait, so we're all cool with draining and consuming fluids from others' bodies?"
They make me cringe so hard. When I got my first job interview at McDonalds they came by in red and yellow tabbards to show our family's loyalty to their house.
Several years ago I became allergic to milk (like actually allergic, not lactose intolerant). I'm doing oral immunotherapy treatments for it now, so I have to drink 20mL of it a day. I used to love milk before I became allergic to it. Now I can't stand it. I'm not sure how I enjoyed it so much.
I used to have to drink a glass of milk with every meal when I was growing up, I didn't even have the option of water, it was milk or nothing. I stopped drinking milk when I moved out. I haven't had a glass of milk in 25 years. I still consume dairy, I just don't drink a glass of straight milk.
I mean, milk is nowhere near the super food they sold us back in the day... but it's far from the toxic sludge people put in their bodies daily nowadays.
Even a coke seems mild compared to the monster drinks and whatever other crap Logan Paul is peddling today
I am doing a lean bulk and it turns out milk is incredibly high protein so now I'm drinking more than I probably did as a kid. Easy way to get the calories and feel full. And chocolate milk... well.
I don't drink much milk nowadays just because I mostly drink water, but when I do have milk on the fridge... it's gone in two days max unless I carefully ration it.
I'm exactly the same, and it was always 2%. I was always a slow eater, I'd always be hoping and waiting for the moment my parents would leave the room for a min so I could run to the sink and pour it down the drain. I asked as an adult if they had ever realized I had been dumping it if they left and somehow they never suspected.
It's especially crazy when something like 65% of humanity is lactose intolerant. No we don't need to steal milk from cows to live we are no way close to a parasite species to them.
What's funny is that almost any other kind of milk is considered gross and unfit to drink: dog milk, cat milk, pig milk, horse milk, etc. That's true even for human milk! (Unless, of course, you're a baby.)
Your sensory taste pleasure vs a living beings suffering. I know which I value more and apparently which you do. That's not an argument it's like defending rape by saying it brings you pleasure completely irrelevant.
I only mention this because I have the same rhetorical tendency and people always somehow seem to think I'm equating the two: it's not a statement that milk equals rape. It's highlighting (with a stark example, arguably an unnecessary one) that a person deriving pleasure from an act doesn't make the act immediately good (I dunno, stealing candy from a baby? For a less "vivid" counter example; I admit, I tend to use super obviously morally bad counter examples too, thinking it'll make things more overly clear, and, instead, causing someone to think I think they're the same thing rather than just operating under the same principle, of differing degrees).
(all that said, their argument doesn't hold water, to begin with, as it's not cruel or painful to the cow unless under factory farming and cows have no sense of ownership and don't feel like their property is being "stolen"; a meal isn't a proper meal if dairy isn't involved, as far as I'm concerned)
I wouldn't even know where to buy milk that doesn't come from factory farming.
I mean, that's fair – I expect a lot of people don't or don't bother to do the research – but that's still, definitionally, a contextual framework and isn't universal. The premise that dairy consumption is universally (in all possible circumstances) evil assumes these arguments always apply; and they don't.
You can get milk from a cow without harming the cow or violently ripping away her calf. Maybe it's difficult, etc. But it's not impossible. So such a universal argument is simply incorrect.
A cow will continue to produce milk for years after raising a calf so long as someone continues to milk her. The amount and quality of the milk will decrease, but for families in rural areas it's more than adequate and doesn't harm the cow. Symbiotic farming techniques are possible; we just choose not to pursue them.
I know what it was saying: it was just weird & poorly explained.
A good analogy should compare subjects
with similarities relevant to the conclusion
lacking relevant dissimilarities that weaken the conclusion's likelihood
and it should hold up with other subjects featuring the same relevant similarities & lacking the same relevant dissimilarities in satisfying the conclusion.
That milking cows necessarily leads to suffering isn't obvious, needs to be explained.
The analogy comparing milking to rape seems to break down for those aware that dairy cows are bred to overproduce milk, so they need milking (or a very hungry calf) to prevent pain & mastitis.
Rape seems quite dissimilar in that respect: no amount of it is necessary to ease pain or prevent infection.
It's harder to conclude that something thought to be needed qualifies as suffering.
Therefore, a clearer argument (that was provided elsewhere) is needed.
There's also the matter that the comment they were responding to wasn't arguing about morality, since it wasn't clear the top comment was stating a moral position, either.
The top comment merely referred to milk as "crazy" (due to lactose intolerance) & "stealing from cows", which come across as hyperbole for unnecessary when the cows presumably don't care & lack any concept of property rights.
That's where unexpected moralization with rape analogy raised the charm of lemmy as
I think that'd make more sense if we're considering the actual, underlying topic under debate but they were responding to gramie's comment which didn't challenge their assertion that the cows were hurt but just went (more or less): "counterpoint: ice cream is yum yum".
In that context, going "sex is pleasurable, too, but rape is still wrong" isn't terribly out of left field, to me.
gramie’s comment which didn’t challenge their assertion that the cows were hurt but just went (more or less)
I edited my earlier comment too late: it wasn't effectively asserted either.
:::spoiler late edit
There's also the matter that the comment they were responding to wasn't arguing about morality, since it wasn't clear the top comment was stating a moral position, either.
The top comment merely referred to milk as "crazy" (due to lactose intolerance) & "stealing from cows", which come across as hyperbole for unnecessary when the cows presumably don't care & lack any concept of property rights.
That's where unexpected moralization with rape analogy raised the charm of lemmy as
Perhaps the most unpleasant fact to consider about cows’ milk destined for human consumption is that it almost certainly required a heifer’s forced impregnation. Female cows are strapped to a rack (common slang often refers to the device as a “rape rack”) and inseminated with semen stored in a massive syringe. There are 9 million dairy cows in the United States. Nearly every one of them suffers immensely from the results of this experience.
However, I'm also reading artificial insemination for dairy cattle reduces chance of injury from large bulls jumping on smaller heifers & minimizes stress on the heifer's body.
The source adds it reduces risk of genital diseases that cause sterility.
Can a heifer consent to breeding bull or artificial insemination?
In principle, that's possible, but I don't think we can in practice positively know.
It may suffice to treat animals humanely, and I see an argument that artificial insemination is more humane for dairy cattle than insemination by breeding bull.
I'm not sure it's in the best interest of heifers to inseminate only by breeding bull if it results in more injuries (and may also amount to rape for all we know).
There's actually a direct connection between milk production and rape. They have to artificially inseminate the cows to make them pregnant so that they keep producing milk. Cows are unable to consent to this.
You've never had Ben and Jerry's dairy-free ice creams? Or even just blended a lot of frozen fruit, a bit of sweetener, and just enough soy milk to get a treat with a roughly similar consistency? You're missing out.
The interspecies dance between millennials who read Harry Potter when it was considered subversive and anti-christian, and Gen Zers who call it racist TERF propaganda, is one of my favorite culture schisms.
I think that the pearl clutching Christians freaking out over the “Devil magic” had the effect of people just convincing themselves the series as a whole was more progressive than it ever actually was.
That was the sentiment when I read it. Those things were progressive for us, when groups of parents were petitioning to get it taken from the school library — in a white prairie town before everyone had a cell phone, interracial couples were the subject of gossip and it was normal to compare trans people to aspiring attack helicopters.
Believe it or not there was a time when jk Rowling kept her moronic views to herself. Then one day after she'd become a gazillionaire she was like "fuck it im rich now, im gonna pull a elon musk and show the world what I truly believe "
That's a pretty innacurate assessment of Rowling, as much as I dislike her.
There's this whole thing people do whenever we watch someone fall from grace, scrutinizing their past through the bias of the present to find "clues," so we can better avoid people like that in the future.
But JK was and still is fairly progressive. A number of people close to her have said her opinions on trans people were, in part, radicalized as a result the fame that exposed her to vitriolic opposition.
I want to be very clear there is no excuse for what she's done or said about trans people, only that it's innacurate to say her shitty views came in a package deal and have always been the same.
Ironic, I feel exactly the same way as one of the other commenters further up the thread, but about rice milk, because my parents forced me to drink it with dinner.
I think one big difference is that many people now recognize it as propaganda, whereas I remember a time when that stuff was just taken as wisdom and the dairy industry seemed to be a part of the health industry (that was also assumed to be in it for society's good rather than profit). Losing that trust was pretty big.
From a general population health perspective, the pyramid was a pretty good system. It was basically an attempt to simplify the Mediterranean pattern. I like the Power Plate better though.
That's more or less how it should be, but with whole grains instead of the ultra-processed stuff. Your diet should be something like:
50-60% carbs (ideally complex carbs), with lots of fiber
20-30% protein
20-25% fat
Each group has sub-categories, but generally speaking, you should bulk up on grains (rice, whole wheat, corn, etc), get lots of great fruits and veggies, enough protein, and fill in the rest as you like.
Giving up dairy was surprisingly more challenging than giving up animal flesh. I felt subtle withdrawal symptoms for months on a physical level, that was reminiscent of quitting nicotine. But on the plus side my body as a whole felt distinctly better, far less inflamed after quitting all of that and replacing it with foods that are mostly anti-inflammatory (except when I binge on chips or popcorn).
But sometimes I wonder, how much does carrying guilt impact the body?
Could you recommend some easy to digest foods, which work well as anti inflammatories? Like, which have you noticed having a great effect compared to some with a low effect?
Having a healthy gut microbiome is itself anti-inflammatory, so you want to feed your little guys lots of prebiotic foods like crucifers, garlic, oats, and more. Some healthy bacteria thrive on the mucus you generate while fasting, a practice which also reduces inflammation.
If you're having problems with your digestive system enough to ask about it, it's possible you have an undiagnosed allergy or sensitivity. Many digestive sensitivities are identifiable only through an elimination diet since they don't provoke an immune response to test the blood for. A food diary is a good place to start, but it can be really difficult to notice patterns. You should definitely work with a doctor if that's a realistic option for you.
One thing to keep in mind is that reducing and removing pro-inflammatory foods is equal, if not more important, because otherwise you are just perpetually trying to heal from the same wounds you keep freshly laying down. When it comes to gastrointestinal problems, things get complicated. I've found three specialists on the subject whose work might help you. One is Dr. Sean Spencer. The other, whose books might be exactly what you're looking for, is Dr. Will Bulsiewicz. And the last is Dr. Alan Desmond.
I'd like to give you a convenient list of foods, but for those of us with these illnesses, each one is a unique quagmire to untangle and I haven't even fully solved my own gut illness yet (though my symptoms are consistently much better than they used to be).
Ngl I had a whole analysis of the scene and the world they were in prepared until I realized I was being autistic and WAYYY too literal. It was like ten paragraphs. I had rewatched and scrubbed through the scene and looked up stuff about France and inventors and royalty...............
Yeah, I remember hearing about it around ten years ago or so. They called it “miracle mineral solution” or something. Had FaceBook groups where they’d post pictures of their kid’s shed intestinal lining and claimed it was the “parasite” that caused Autism. And had posts where they’d give each other tips on how best to lie to the CPS workers when they came knocking.
The countries that practice human slavery (including child slaves) are easy enough to avoid if you know how, but their products are in every cheap chocolate treat in every North American grocery store. One has to take care.
I'm not aware of the slavery in coffee production. I don't consume it but I'd be interested in learning more to pass along.
But what is the relevance of these things? Not sure why you're whatabouting atrocity but I hope you are as diligent about avoiding the abuse of vulnerable individuals as you would like me to be.
Not exactly sure what you're trying to get at. Something about abortion?
What you've been kept from understanding all your life is that all milk comes from a mother. To milk a cow, first you have to get her pregnant. She'll provide milk for about a year, and you have to get her pregnant again. A dairy produces hundreds or thousands of calves a year that they have no use for. They go often into veal because a farmer would get a better return from a breed specialized for producing meat rather than milk. So an inevitable side effect of buying milk at the supermarket is murdering a bunch of babies.
208 Comments
g0d0fm15ch13f@lemmy.world · 78 pts · 306d
I would waterboard myself with a tall cold frothy glass of whole chocolate milk. I'm a dirty little milk slut. I think I was essentially stockholmed into it. I remember being like "ew fat bad" as a kid and drinking skim for cereal. But somewhere down the line that turned into me just slopping heavy whipping cream neat. I mean fuck me I'm drinking a chocolate milk on my walk to work right fucking now.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 306d
I once drank so much chocolate milk in a short time that I almost puked. Was like almost 2L
g0d0fm15ch13f@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 306d
I once drank so much milk I did puke. 10/10 experience tbh, cause like, I love milk. But also that was a good solid push during the purge phase of that.
victorz@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 306d
Yeesh, drinking that much fluid in one go can be really dangerous, yeah.
Balaquina@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 306d
This is true, but drinking two liters of milk is a lot less dangerous than drinking two liters of water, because that much water at once will throw your electrolyte balance off, and that's what can kill you. Milk has electrolytes in it so the effect isn't necessarily as dire. But... still wouldn't recommend it.
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 8 pts · 306d
So you're saying it's what plants crave?
Balaquina@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 306d
Not as much as Brawndo, but yes.
victorz@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 306d
4/10 body returned the product
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 306d
Fuck I did once drink 3L of water in the span of 20 minutes just to see how much I could drink. After about 2.5L you can barely even drink at all. Not to mention how hard you have to go piss
Anivia@feddit.org · 1 pts · 305d
Water also has electrolytes in it, unless you are drinking RO or distilled water (which is perfectly safe by the way, the urban myth that drinking distilled water will kill you is incorrect)
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 305d
Dude when I'm running a race I have to walk while drinking the tiny little paper cup of water they give you enroute because the physical activity combined with drinking something makes my stomach churn (nerves might also be playing a factor since I'm still at the stage where every race I'm excited but also too nervous to eat and struggle to get enough calories in before the race)
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 306d
I worked cleaning dishes in my college cafeteria, and one of the idiots working there made a bet that he could drink a gallon of milk without puking.
3 minutes later, he ran back into the dishroom and began vomiting in the soaking tub.
The human body physically rejects dairy at a certain point.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 306d
I know. I have seen videos from like 2010 of people puking after trying that. Although 2L is still quite a bit less than a gallon.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 306d
It's ~half
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 305d
Indeed. Which I would say is quite a bit less than a gallon which is ~twice that.
victorz@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 306d
Once I learned fat is good, I started laying heavy layers of butter, lots of cheese, drinking whole milk, etc. And it tastes good, because we've evolved to like what's good for us.
glimse@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 306d
Lots of tasty berries will kill you. So will tons of would-be herbs. Processed sugar is delicious. So are a lot of foods with trans fats. Cyanide apparently tastes like almonds. And kids ate lead paint chips because they were sweet.
Nice job, evolution!
victorz@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 306d
We also developed brains to learn which things will kill us despite tasting good, so that's fine. Very good job, evolution!
glimse@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 306d
Yeah that part is true, I'm just saying that something tasting good doesn't mean it's good for you
victorz@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 306d
In certain cases, sure. But for the most part, if it tastes good and can be found in nature ready to eat, it's usually good for you. But yes yes yes, certain conditions apply, etc etc yadda yadda.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 53 pts · 306d
Cow's milk is good food.
"But some people are lactose intolerant!"
Too bad for them.
"Saturated fat clogs arteries! You're gonna have a heart attack!"
It's far more complicated than that, and not nearly as big a concern as most people think.
Zorcron@lemmy.zip · 37 pts · 306d
There’s nothing inherently wrong with it as a food, like most other foods, but it’s not a health panacea as it was portrayed in milk advertising previously. Its main drawback for public health is that it is fairly calorically dense, so while it may be better for you than soda, for those looking to lose weight, milk should not be your primary beverage.
Also: the dairy industry is questionable at best, from an animal treatment standpoint, as well as environmental.
stray@pawb.social · 4 pts · 306d
It's also got an unexpected amount of sugar in it, so people don't realize what it can do to a kid's teeth.
Zorcron@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 306d
Very true, the same fact also makes it a bad choice for those with diabetes as well.
hakase@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 306d
Preach!
massive_bereavement@fedia.io · 4 pts · 306d
Agreed, but people without toes should also be tolerated.
damnedfurry@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 306d
toelerated*
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 305d
Uhh, the people saying saturated fats clog arteries are right. Which is why the American Heart Association recommends aiming to keep it under 6% of total calories, as well as seeking to replace saturated fats with sources of unsaturated fats.
You are absolutely on a path to heart attack if you don't reign in those kinds of foods.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -2 pts · 306d
No food stolen from the oppression of other beings can be good food. Cow's milk is for baby cows only.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 306d
I mean it's pretty tasty though
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -3 pts · 306d
Your sensory pleasure really shouldn't be rated anywhere close to a beings wish to avoid suffering. Not going to respond to anything more you post because your first comment was basic troll bait and this conversation with openers like yours will go nowhere and make me angry.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 306d
It's so fun when people just run in, foist their personal choices on others then call them the troll.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 306d
Yeah they were the ones that instigated.
All because someone said they like to drink milk, but I'm the troll?
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 306d
You can not excuse harm to others as a personal choice. When there is a victim "personal choice" is irrelevant.
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -6 pts · 306d
That milk isn't for you. It's stolen.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 306d
The calf grew up already.
stray@pawb.social · 3 pts · 306d
It's entirely possible to take only excess milk from a cow, especially as she will continue to lactate for as long as you continue to milk her. But I also feel it's important for you to know that in the industrial dairy industry what they do is get her pregnant, take the calf away immediately after birth, and then get her pregnant again soon after.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 305d
You realize that these cows are not feeding calves, right? **It's all excess. **
If you keep extracting the milk, they keep producing it, even years after their offspring has grown up.
stray@pawb.social · 1 pts · 305d
I'm not sure what you mean. She would be feeding the calf if they didn't take it away from her. I'm not sure what percentage of them are allowed to grow up, given the popularity of veal.
They will continue to produce milk, but in factory farming they're impregnated roughly once a year to keep the amount of milk high and to give it more marketable qualities.
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 306d
That's not a justification for stealing the milk. It's not yours.
sam@fed.eitilt.life · 3 pts · 306d
My family took care of a small herd of dairy goats when I was growing up. They could definitely make their displeasure known if you tried to make them do something they didn't want to (especially when they were very nearly your own weight). Milking time? Most days they were perfectly happy to jump up on the stand for us to relieve their udders for them, sometimes even before we'd gotten everything set up.
I am careful where I get my milk from because the big dairy institutions are rather problematic. And I agree that the broad disempowerment and incarceration inherent in farming is an issue on its own. But saying that milk is always, unequivocally, unwanted theft (and respectively that farms provide an unqualified worse life) is just the other side of the same human-exceptionalism coin -- you're removing their agency to say "yes".
re: @queermunist@lemmy.ml
cc: @Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip
queermunist@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 305d
There's no sustainable way to do this for 8 billion people, so frankly I don't give a shit.
sam@fed.eitilt.life · 2 pts · 305d
Ah, good to know you have a argument ready to allow you to move the goalposts, and that you won't accept any solutions for achieving utopia that don't come out of the gate already perfect.
To be equally blunt, my response wasn't "all eight billion people should drink small-farm milk", it was "you're being anthropocentric in a very similar vein to saying all other animals are automata." If you really do think humans are the only species which can have and express desires and dislikes, then enjoy your biological essentialism.
re: @queermunist@lemmy.ml
queermunist@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 305d
I believe in verbal consent and think your argument is uncomfortably similar to rape apologia - you can just tell she wants it!
Orygin@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 305d
Weren't these species selectively bred to have excess milk for us?
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 306d
Cows don't have a concept of property.
Orygin@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 305d
Do you have a source for that or are you just guessing because it's a cow?
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 305d
I don't need to guess. Because it's a cow.
Orygin@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 304d
But you do guess, because it's a cow. You don't know you aren't a cow (I guess?).
60 years ago they thought that babies did not feel pain. I suppose we can always rely on our intuition to tell us what's true or not.
Some people still think animals don't feel pain, or have feelings at all. Anybody who has spent time with one of them will know that's bs.
Why couldn't cows have a concept similar to what we consider property? Just because they are "inferior" to you.
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 305d
Cows have to be tricked into letting their milk down. They won't let you steal it otherwise.
Redex68@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 306d
ok
jballs@sh.itjust.works · 48 pts · 306d
The aggression and name calling in that second image reminded me of r/neverbrokeabone. I don't miss much about reddit, but that particular subreddit was pretty damn funny usually.
Someone would post an X-ray of a broken pinky they got in a car crash and everyone would be like "GTFO of here with your little baby bird bones, you calcium-deficient piece of shit!"
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 9 pts · 306d
when I was a kid, among the things I would never have expected to stumble upon, near the top of the list in fact, there was "calcium supremacism abuse kink"
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 305d
I did not wake up with any expectations of learning about Calcium Supremacism Abuse Kink this fine hallowed morning, nor any other morning for that matter thank you very much!
gajahmada@awful.systems · 4 pts · 306d
BBB, brittle bone bitch.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 305d
An X-ray of me, after I've finished my 10th daily glass of milk.
otacon239@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 306d
Hey I’m part of the club!
farting_gorilla@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 306d
Big Milk is so powerful, I've had older women in China ask me how I got so tall if I don't drink milk.
This is China, with no history of drinking cows milk and like 90% of the population is lactose intolerant.
CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 305d
Lactose tolerance in adulthood is the mutation. Intolerance is the normal case for most humans. And most humans are tolerant to lactose in childhood.
Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 305d
So much for the tolerant left smdh
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 305d
In fairness, China's southern and western provinces have historically been on the shorter side. But also, like.... Yao Ming.
You can improve lactose tolerance if you introduce milk to kids at an early age and drink it continuously. My 50s-era Jewish family are all horribly lactose intolerant, but I grew up chugging the stuff and do just fine with it. Plenty of ABCs can and do drink milk and eat dairy, just as a matter of living in a country so full of cows and cow-products.
What happens in another 20-40 years, as we obliterate our grazing lands and drive the cost cow products skyward? Idk, man. But milk is a consumer staple for a reason. Calorically dense. Very useful in cooking/baking. Relatively cheap to produce and distribute. Goes well over cereal.
If milk did not exist, we would have to invent it.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 305d
We did invent superior forms of milk, such as oat milk.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 305d
We invented alternatives, definitely. But there are still plenty of trade-offs. Much lower in calories and saturated fats, for instance.
If you're trying to fatten up a skinny little baby (as I'm currently working on, having placed with a toddler a few months back) the pediatrician is going to stare daggers at you if you say you've been giving the kid oat milk rather than whole milk. Literally had this conversation already and got hit in the head with a stack of literature just for asking.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 305d
Pretty sure most people in USA don't need more calories.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK611097/
Dairy is literally the least sustainable and least efficient form of food production next to meat and palm oil.
https://www.trvst.world/sustainable-living/worst-foods-for-the-environment/
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 305d
1 in 5 kids in the United States is living with hunger. That's nearly 14 million children, which has increased from a year ago.
Milk is a highly effective method of fattening kids up who are malnourished or otherwise underfed. Whole milk is the go-to for toddlers coming off breastmilk/formula for a reason.
Natural gas is a leading contributor to climate change. It is also the cheapest (for the moment) form of energy per kWh.
"Sustainability" is not the same thing as "Cheap" or "Easy to Distribute". Quite the opposite.
Now, a lot of our cheap milk is a byproduct of our intensive animal agriculture, which is highly profitable but dismally inefficient. If that changes (because we killed a big chunk of our cow herds by mismanaging grazing land and water rights and fucking up disease mitigation) then I can see a world in which cow-milk drops off the menu quickly.
So, hey, let me know if that changes.
Skyline969@lemmy.ca · 27 pts · 306d
When I was growing up we went through a gallon a day. Fucking love milk.
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 306d
I can remember when I'd come home from high school, if I smelled oatmeal chocolate chip cookies, I'd know my mom would have saved me some of the dough in a Tupperware in the fridge. I'd get it, a spoon, and a half gallon jug of milk and sit down in front of the TV until they were both gone.
I was super active, and really skinny, but it still seems funny to think about now.
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 305d
My parents rationed the fuck out of our milk because my mom would have Carnation Instant Breakfast (basically chocolate milk possibly with some additives?) every day as her breakfast and they couldn't be arsed to buy an extra half or full gallon of milk per week.
I also grew up hating the carbonation in soda so I'd literally only drink milk or water, which turned out to be very handy in adulthood since soda is so terrible for you (and expensive! Holy crap a single box of cans is like $8 and soda drinkers usually want 2-3 of those a week! Also i just realized that's 48-72 cans of soda a week meaning for two adults probably drink 3-5 cans a day!)
the_q@lemmy.zip · 26 pts · 306d
rainbowbunny@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 306d
It's honestly the best milk in my opinion. Sunflower milk is a fun mention as well but less affordable, so a rare treat.
zammy95@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 306d
It's the best pairing for coffee out of all the milk or milk alternatives options in my personal opinion. Regular milk just makes it to... is it dumb to say milky?
the_q@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 306d
zammy95@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 306d
I've heard that too about the almond milk. I do bake a decent bit with oat milk and never have issues though (I imagine some items may be pickier than others though. Also not sure if using full fat oatly makes a difference vs 'regular')
interrobang@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 306d
I was raised a dairy milk fiend and oat milk is definitely my go to.
My family used to drink two gallons a day, my dad alone would drink one by himself... Yes he does have the diabeetus now if you were wondering how that's going
absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz · 5 pts · 306d
I can't stand oak milk, almond milk is all I drink....I can't get past the oat taste.
Strangely I eat porridge every morning for breakfast.
EldenLord@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 305d
Do you put almond milk in your coffee? I once tried that and it tasted like pure cyankali. Oat drink is a bit better, but for my coffee I personally still prefer real milk.
absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz · 3 pts · 305d
Oh hell no.
Coffee is black!!!
EldenLord@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 304d
Valid.
SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 306d
Sugar free soy milk is the best imo. Oat milk is too sweet
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 305d
I hate milk so much. The taste, the texture. Just the thought of drinking a glass of milk again makes me want to projectile vomit. I had to drink a glass of milk for dinner every night as a kid. I wasn't allowed to leave the table until it was gone. Sometimes I'd sit there for an hour just trying to force myself to drink it. My parents were like, just drink the milk, it's not so bad, get it over with, but it felt like being tortured every night. I was violently ill afterwards almost every time.
Turns out I'm both lactose intolerant and neurodivergent. Yes I was being a little drama queen, but I at least had reasons :)
korazail@lemmy.myserv.one · 4 pts · 305d
Who knew? One-size fits all health guidance doesn't actually work!
Supporting you, not trying to diminish your experience.
I was made to spell 'pepsi' before getting caffeinated sugar syrup at dinner. Looking back, that seems like poor decision making on my parents' part, but I can see the good intended behind the act. Hopefully we learn from those that came before... and make new and exciting mistakes!
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 305d
I couldn't drink it as a kid without cacao, but somehow as an adult it was fine.
Still don't drink it much, I prefer mineral water. Nice and salty
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 305d
Weird. I loved milk as a kid and still do. We were never forced to drink it, but we were encouraged a bit. One of my favorite snacks was banana chocolate milk, and I still enjoy a bowl of cold cereal.
The only thing I was forced to eat as a kid was veggies.
pleaseletmein@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 306d
I’m on the older end of Gen Z and this was definitely a thing when I was little. My parents didn’t buy into the milk thing, but I had a teacher who went wild with it. I forget how exactly it happened, but she found out I had cereal for breakfast without milk poured on because that was how I liked it. She decided this meant my parents were neglecting my needs and that it was her job to “make up” for it during lunch time.
I’d often end up sick trying to get it all down. I’m not lactose intolerant, it was just that the amount she required me to drink (five cartons one after another) was more than I could keep down. (Years later, when The Gallon Challenge became a thing, it brought back the memories, though at least I wasn’t forced to drink quite that much.)
I’d rarely gotten sick before, so once I was being sent home for vomiting frequently, my parents learned what was happening and made it stop.
It only lasted a couple weeks, but I never drank milk again afterwards, so that teacher accomplished the exact opposite of what she wanted.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 26 pts · 306d
Wow, that's child abuse. What a scary teacher!
cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 305d
Christians should not be allowed near children.
wabasso@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 305d
Not a Christian apologist, but where did it mention the teacher being Christian?
cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 305d
It didn't, but I've met a few like that and they always were.
pleaseletmein@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 305d
She might have been, since I grew up in the US south and so the area was predominantly Christian, but I don’t know (or just can’t remember) if she was. It wasn’t a religious school, though.
Icytrees@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 306d
Milk used to make me so sick my little ten year old body projectile vomitted it across the breakfast table and my parents, who'd seen 10¹⁰ milk commercials, were like "maybe you're not drinking enough milk."
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 24 pts · 306d
my god..... that's ten billion ads.... if each ad lasts 30s, then your parents started watching milk ads 9510 years ago... that puts us roughly..... no wait.. -it can't be..!
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 306d
Lmao. I was too skeptical to accept this at first, so I double-checked both the math and the date.
Incredibly, everything checks out.
Hm, now I'm imagining OP's parents having lived so long due to being the first vampires. They saw others drinking milk and thought, "Wait, so we're all cool with draining and consuming fluids from others' bodies?"
stray@pawb.social · 4 pts · 306d
Maybe this is common knowledge, but the Maasai herd cows and will drain a non-lethal amount of blood from their necks to drink.
Icytrees@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 306d
They make me cringe so hard. When I got my first job interview at McDonalds they came by in red and yellow tabbards to show our family's loyalty to their house.
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 304d
TheGiantKorean@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 306d
Several years ago I became allergic to milk (like actually allergic, not lactose intolerant). I'm doing oral immunotherapy treatments for it now, so I have to drink 20mL of it a day. I used to love milk before I became allergic to it. Now I can't stand it. I'm not sure how I enjoyed it so much.
Amir@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 306d
It's more enjoyable without a histamine rush
TheGiantKorean@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 306d
Definitely, but I also don't care for the flavor any more. It just tastes weird.
Now butter on the other hand... holy shit. You just can't replace that flavor. It's amazing.
stopforgettingit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 306d
I used to have to drink a glass of milk with every meal when I was growing up, I didn't even have the option of water, it was milk or nothing. I stopped drinking milk when I moved out. I haven't had a glass of milk in 25 years. I still consume dairy, I just don't drink a glass of straight milk.
Jhex@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 306d
I mean, milk is nowhere near the super food they sold us back in the day... but it's far from the toxic sludge people put in their bodies daily nowadays.
Even a coke seems mild compared to the monster drinks and whatever other crap Logan Paul is peddling today
BanMe@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 306d
I am doing a lean bulk and it turns out milk is incredibly high protein so now I'm drinking more than I probably did as a kid. Easy way to get the calories and feel full. And chocolate milk... well.
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 8 pts · 306d
Well no wonder you didn't fulfill your potential.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 306d
I don't drink much milk nowadays just because I mostly drink water, but when I do have milk on the fridge... it's gone in two days max unless I carefully ration it.
nothin' like a cold glass o' melk
SaintNyx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 305d
I'm exactly the same, and it was always 2%. I was always a slow eater, I'd always be hoping and waiting for the moment my parents would leave the room for a min so I could run to the sink and pour it down the drain. I asked as an adult if they had ever realized I had been dumping it if they left and somehow they never suspected.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 306d
It's especially crazy when something like 65% of humanity is lactose intolerant. No we don't need to steal milk from cows to live we are no way close to a parasite species to them.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 306d
What's funny is that almost any other kind of milk is considered gross and unfit to drink: dog milk, cat milk, pig milk, horse milk, etc. That's true even for human milk! (Unless, of course, you're a baby.)
EldenLord@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 305d
Human milk actually doesn‘t taste that bad, it is very sweet however.
(Don‘t ask me how I know)
gramie@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 306d
I have two words for you: ice cream.
I rest my case.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 306d
Your sensory taste pleasure vs a living beings suffering. I know which I value more and apparently which you do. That's not an argument it's like defending rape by saying it brings you pleasure completely irrelevant.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 0 pts · 306d
milk = rape
thanks for raising the bar for discourse with the calm, open-minded, delightfully reasonable people at lemmy 😄
tomenzgg@midwest.social · 5 pts · 306d
I only mention this because I have the same rhetorical tendency and people always somehow seem to think I'm equating the two: it's not a statement that milk equals rape. It's highlighting (with a stark example, arguably an unnecessary one) that a person deriving pleasure from an act doesn't make the act immediately good (I dunno, stealing candy from a baby? For a less "vivid" counter example; I admit, I tend to use super obviously morally bad counter examples too, thinking it'll make things more overly clear, and, instead, causing someone to think I think they're the same thing rather than just operating under the same principle, of differing degrees).
(all that said, their argument doesn't hold water, to begin with, as it's not cruel or painful to the cow unless under factory farming and cows have no sense of ownership and don't feel like their property is being "stolen"; a meal isn't a proper meal if dairy isn't involved, as far as I'm concerned)
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 306d
When their calf gets taken away so that you can get their milk, you bet that cow has an emotional reaction to having their baby stolen.
The vast majority of milk comes from factory farming. I wouldn't even know where to buy milk that doesn't come from factory farming.
tomenzgg@midwest.social · 1 pts · 306d
I mean, that's fair – I expect a lot of people don't or don't bother to do the research – but that's still, definitionally, a contextual framework and isn't universal. The premise that dairy consumption is universally (in all possible circumstances) evil assumes these arguments always apply; and they don't.
You can get milk from a cow without harming the cow or violently ripping away her calf. Maybe it's difficult, etc. But it's not impossible. So such a universal argument is simply incorrect.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 306d
Can you give an example of an argument which is universal?
stray@pawb.social · 1 pts · 306d
A cow will continue to produce milk for years after raising a calf so long as someone continues to milk her. The amount and quality of the milk will decrease, but for families in rural areas it's more than adequate and doesn't harm the cow. Symbiotic farming techniques are possible; we just choose not to pursue them.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 2 pts · 306d
I know what it was saying: it was just weird & poorly explained.
A good analogy should compare subjects
and it should hold up with other subjects featuring the same relevant similarities & lacking the same relevant dissimilarities in satisfying the conclusion.
That milking cows necessarily leads to suffering isn't obvious, needs to be explained. The analogy comparing milking to rape seems to break down for those aware that dairy cows are bred to overproduce milk, so they need milking (or a very hungry calf) to prevent pain & mastitis. Rape seems quite dissimilar in that respect: no amount of it is necessary to ease pain or prevent infection. It's harder to conclude that something thought to be needed qualifies as suffering.
Therefore, a clearer argument (that was provided elsewhere) is needed.
There's also the matter that the comment they were responding to wasn't arguing about morality, since it wasn't clear the top comment was stating a moral position, either. The top comment merely referred to milk as "crazy" (due to lactose intolerance) & "stealing from cows", which come across as hyperbole for unnecessary when the cows presumably don't care & lack any concept of property rights. That's where unexpected moralization with rape analogy raised the charm of lemmy as
to new, exciting heights.
tomenzgg@midwest.social · 3 pts · 306d
I think that'd make more sense if we're considering the actual, underlying topic under debate but they were responding to
gramie's comment which didn't challenge their assertion that the cows were hurt but just went (more or less): "counterpoint: ice cream is yum yum".In that context, going "sex is pleasurable, too, but rape is still wrong" isn't terribly out of left field, to me.
But I get what you mean, for sure.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 2 pts · 306d
I edited my earlier comment too late: it wasn't effectively asserted either. :::spoiler late edit
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 306d
Do some reading about milk production. Rape is actually part of the process.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 2 pts · 306d
This had me go from
to
However, I'm also reading artificial insemination for dairy cattle reduces chance of injury from large bulls jumping on smaller heifers & minimizes stress on the heifer's body. The source adds it reduces risk of genital diseases that cause sterility. Can a heifer consent to breeding bull or artificial insemination? In principle, that's possible, but I don't think we can in practice positively know.
It may suffice to treat animals humanely, and I see an argument that artificial insemination is more humane for dairy cattle than insemination by breeding bull. I'm not sure it's in the best interest of heifers to inseminate only by breeding bull if it results in more injuries (and may also amount to rape for all we know).
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -2 pts · 305d
that's not rape
Inaminate_Carbon_Rod@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 306d
Having a discussion about milk.
Someone brings up rape.
😳
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 306d
There's actually a direct connection between milk production and rape. They have to artificially inseminate the cows to make them pregnant so that they keep producing milk. Cows are unable to consent to this.
Inaminate_Carbon_Rod@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 306d
Oh I completely understand that and I have a big issue with it.
That’s not what was brought up though.
They brought up the subject of a human raping another human.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 305d
The point was that doing something because it feels good doesn't mean that it's right.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 305d
artificial insemination is a veterinaryprocedure, not a sex crime
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 305d
I never said that it was a crime. I said that it was rape. There are lots of things that are immoral but not illegal.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -2 pts · 304d
rape is a crime. artificial insemination is neither immoral nor illegal.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 305d
You've never had Ben and Jerry's dairy-free ice creams? Or even just blended a lot of frozen fruit, a bit of sweetener, and just enough soy milk to get a treat with a roughly similar consistency? You're missing out.
Redex68@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 306d
You will pry milk from my cold, hypercalcemic hands
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 10 pts · 306d
I am a manly man and I only put soy milk in my coffee. You can pry the bean milk from my unbreakable bones!
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de · 11 pts · 306d
If you drink some vanilla soy latte sprinkled with cocoa powder, you basically have a 4-bean soup
axx@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 305d
Ooohhh.
plyth@feddit.org · 2 pts · 305d
Has anybody else been surprised by what an 'r' could have done to the last sentence?
Dorkyd68@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 306d
You forgot satanic panic and how Harry potter was gonna send us to hell
Icytrees@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 306d
The interspecies dance between millennials who read Harry Potter when it was considered subversive and anti-christian, and Gen Zers who call it racist TERF propaganda, is one of my favorite culture schisms.
pleaseletmein@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 306d
I think that the pearl clutching Christians freaking out over the “Devil magic” had the effect of people just convincing themselves the series as a whole was more progressive than it ever actually was.
Icytrees@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 306d
That was the sentiment when I read it. Those things were progressive for us, when groups of parents were petitioning to get it taken from the school library — in a white prairie town before everyone had a cell phone, interracial couples were the subject of gossip and it was normal to compare trans people to aspiring attack helicopters.
Obviously I don't support the TERFy cunt now.
Dorkyd68@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 304d
Believe it or not there was a time when jk Rowling kept her moronic views to herself. Then one day after she'd become a gazillionaire she was like "fuck it im rich now, im gonna pull a elon musk and show the world what I truly believe "
Icytrees@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 304d
That's a pretty innacurate assessment of Rowling, as much as I dislike her.
There's this whole thing people do whenever we watch someone fall from grace, scrutinizing their past through the bias of the present to find "clues," so we can better avoid people like that in the future.
But JK was and still is fairly progressive. A number of people close to her have said her opinions on trans people were, in part, radicalized as a result the fame that exposed her to vitriolic opposition.
I want to be very clear there is no excuse for what she's done or said about trans people, only that it's innacurate to say her shitty views came in a package deal and have always been the same.
Dorkyd68@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 304d
Bruh, thats some serious word salad. Im really not sure what the heck youre trying to say
Icytrees@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 304d
I believe we were talking about milk.
SSUPII@sopuli.xyz · 10 pts · 306d
Depends, because as a Gen Z I still am forced to drink it daily
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 306d
Pretty happy I grew up with hippy parents who raised me on almond and soy milks 😤
Curufeanor@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 305d
Ironic, I feel exactly the same way as one of the other commenters further up the thread, but about rice milk, because my parents forced me to drink it with dinner.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 304d
I guess my parents didn't force me to eat, so I just had what they put out.
Tetragrade@leminal.space · 9 pts · 306d
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 306d
So needlessly hostile. Rawr!
JandroDelSol@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 306d
I'm gen z and the milk propaganda was everywhere lmao, what's this person talking about
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 305d
I think one big difference is that many people now recognize it as propaganda, whereas I remember a time when that stuff was just taken as wisdom and the dairy industry seemed to be a part of the health industry (that was also assumed to be in it for society's good rather than profit). Losing that trust was pretty big.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 306d
We also had the food pyramid, which said we should eat tons and tons of bread and grain.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 8 pts · 305d
From a general population health perspective, the pyramid was a pretty good system. It was basically an attempt to simplify the Mediterranean pattern. I like the Power Plate better though.
tetris11@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 305d
I was raised on the food shape, so my diet shunned fancy foods and consisted mostly of aspic and curried cheese
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 305d
Ah yes, cigarettes and milk. My favorite food group.
tetris11@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 305d
I'd have a cigarette for breakfast followed by a bowl of heavy cream. Then I'd go work one half-hour, two half-hour...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YCOT5LasKc
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 305d
Honest representation of the health effects of milk.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 306d
Like so much. I couldn't keep up.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 305d
That's more or less how it should be, but with whole grains instead of the ultra-processed stuff. Your diet should be something like:
Each group has sub-categories, but generally speaking, you should bulk up on grains (rice, whole wheat, corn, etc), get lots of great fruits and veggies, enough protein, and fill in the rest as you like.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 306d
Giving up dairy was surprisingly more challenging than giving up animal flesh. I felt subtle withdrawal symptoms for months on a physical level, that was reminiscent of quitting nicotine. But on the plus side my body as a whole felt distinctly better, far less inflamed after quitting all of that and replacing it with foods that are mostly anti-inflammatory (except when I binge on chips or popcorn).
But sometimes I wonder, how much does carrying guilt impact the body?
JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 306d
Could you recommend some easy to digest foods, which work well as anti inflammatories? Like, which have you noticed having a great effect compared to some with a low effect?
I ask as I get gut inflammation quite badly.
stray@pawb.social · 4 pts · 306d
Having a healthy gut microbiome is itself anti-inflammatory, so you want to feed your little guys lots of prebiotic foods like crucifers, garlic, oats, and more. Some healthy bacteria thrive on the mucus you generate while fasting, a practice which also reduces inflammation.
If you're having problems with your digestive system enough to ask about it, it's possible you have an undiagnosed allergy or sensitivity. Many digestive sensitivities are identifiable only through an elimination diet since they don't provoke an immune response to test the blood for. A food diary is a good place to start, but it can be really difficult to notice patterns. You should definitely work with a doctor if that's a realistic option for you.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 306d
One thing to keep in mind is that reducing and removing pro-inflammatory foods is equal, if not more important, because otherwise you are just perpetually trying to heal from the same wounds you keep freshly laying down. When it comes to gastrointestinal problems, things get complicated. I've found three specialists on the subject whose work might help you. One is Dr. Sean Spencer. The other, whose books might be exactly what you're looking for, is Dr. Will Bulsiewicz. And the last is Dr. Alan Desmond.
I'd like to give you a convenient list of foods, but for those of us with these illnesses, each one is a unique quagmire to untangle and I haven't even fully solved my own gut illness yet (though my symptoms are consistently much better than they used to be).
JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 305d
This is incredibly helpful, thank you so much!
I have diverticular disease, which occasionally gets set off. It can be a real mess sometimes!
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 306d
Guilt probably raises cortisol levels.
Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 305d
kinky.
darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 306d
tetris11@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 305d
pfft. Laaaaaameeee!
(but thank you)
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 305d
Limeys gonna lime
tetris11@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 305d
Yanks are gonna yank
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 305d
Gobbles gonna gobble
tetris11@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 305d
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 306d
Meanwhile Americans still eating fucking eggs like Gaston, and freaking out whenever the price goes up because they have a dozen a day.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 306d
Dude had 60 eggs every morning. That means there's basically an entire henhouse dedicated to his breakfast.
Meanwhile, in town there's a woman panicking to get just a few eggs, and the rest of the food in town seems overpriced.
Gaston was wrecking the local economy with his appetite.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 305d
Ngl I had a whole analysis of the scene and the world they were in prepared until I realized I was being autistic and WAYYY too literal. It was like ten paragraphs. I had rewatched and scrubbed through the scene and looked up stuff about France and inventors and royalty...............
RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com · 5 pts · 306d
Instead gen z have to deal with parents who give them bleach enemas to prevent autism.
cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 305d
To be fair, that does sound like it would cure autism.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 306d
What a coincidence! That's how I caught my autism!
Also, the youngest gen Z is 13. Alpha is the one getting it now.
RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com · 1 pts · 306d
This has been going on for longer than now.
pleaseletmein@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 305d
Yeah, I remember hearing about it around ten years ago or so. They called it “miracle mineral solution” or something. Had FaceBook groups where they’d post pictures of their kid’s shed intestinal lining and claimed it was the “parasite” that caused Autism. And had posts where they’d give each other tips on how best to lie to the CPS workers when they came knocking.
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub · 4 pts · 306d
I used to love dairy and milk. Now I'm lactose intolerant. Drinking milk means destroying another toilet these days.
Redex68@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 306d
My sincere, deep condolences
kamen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 305d
Malk
nomy@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 305d
Now with Vitamin R
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 305d
Video
TheMilk@lemdro.id · 1 pts · 306d
Why you talking about my dad?
Pulptastic@midwest.social · 1 pts · 304d
We don’t force milk but we allow it twice a day and my kids almost always choose to.
sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 306d
:shrug🤷
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -4 pts · 305d
Carnist brainwashing is a real thing that's rampant in our fascist society.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 305d
Milk isn't carne tbh
debil@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 305d
Milk? No. Dairy production? Absolutely.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 305d
I meant it's not meat. It's animal abuse for sure, but it's not meat. You do not eat the animal when consuming milk
Dozzi92@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 305d
Milk is fascism. Kinda takes the bite out of the word "fascism."
JeSuisUnHombre@lemmy.zip · -4 pts · 306d
I got a kidney stone from how much milk I drank in high school
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 306d
No, you probably didn't:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11133716/
and:
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-kidney-stones-and-calcium/
JeSuisUnHombre@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 306d
I know it's weird for a teenager to get a kidney stone, made sense to me that it was from the excessive amount of milk I was drinking at the time
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 306d
Also, a bunch of vulnerable individuals were murdered from how much milk you drank.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 306d
Boy I hope you never eat any dairy free chocolate or drink coffee. Then we're talking about literal human slavery
jerkface@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 306d
The countries that practice human slavery (including child slaves) are easy enough to avoid if you know how, but their products are in every cheap chocolate treat in every North American grocery store. One has to take care.
I'm not aware of the slavery in coffee production. I don't consume it but I'd be interested in learning more to pass along.
But what is the relevance of these things? Not sure why you're whatabouting atrocity but I hope you are as diligent about avoiding the abuse of vulnerable individuals as you would like me to be.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 306d
It's quite relevant. If drinking milk makes you a murderer then in that view consuming chocolate makes you a slaver.
I'd argue someone enslaving humans is way worse than anyone killing cows. But that's up to your own morality to determine.
Don't suddenly act like you weren't calling other murderers for their consumption choices. Not too nice when it's turned around?
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 305d
Do you avoid coffee and chocolate then?
thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org · 0 pts · 306d
they arnt individuals until they reach the egg and inseminate it....
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 306d
Not exactly sure what you're trying to get at. Something about abortion?
What you've been kept from understanding all your life is that all milk comes from a mother. To milk a cow, first you have to get her pregnant. She'll provide milk for about a year, and you have to get her pregnant again. A dairy produces hundreds or thousands of calves a year that they have no use for. They go often into veal because a farmer would get a better return from a breed specialized for producing meat rather than milk. So an inevitable side effect of buying milk at the supermarket is murdering a bunch of babies.
thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org · 0 pts · 306d
If I have to explain it, its not funny. It was a masterbation joke. Lighten up.