I've been working on Linux since '96. As time goes by I keep drifting more and more towards boring and stable distributions. I just don't want to be bothered with a system that needs me to groom it constantly.
I use arch because it is the boring but stable system. Rolling release means you just keep updating it and it works forever rather than having to do big bang upgrades between LTS versions that always break something
Nah. It just means that the breaking updates could surprise you at any time.
With a LTS version upgrade, I can plan for the potentially breaking updates. I can set aside time when my schedule is free to do the big update and work through any potential bullshit. It won't interrupt my work.
But in a rolling release, you're still going to get that same breaking update ... but with no warning this time. It might come at a crucial time when you're trying to get other work done, forcing you to stop your more important work and fix your computer first.
And that's not even counting the number of breaking updates. A relatively 'bleeding edge' rolling release distro like Arch is going to include much newer software versions that haven't gone through as much real-world testing and bug reporting as the stale old packages in a LTS release. The price you pay for more updated software is that it's less thoroughly tested software and more likely to include undiscovered, unfixed bugs.
By the time the same package update finally makes it to some stable LTS distro, more of the bugs have been discovered, reported, and hopefully fixed ... before you ever even see it.
(Not to say that nobody should run cutting-edge rolling release distros. I'm glad you guys are out there. You're the ones reporting those bugs that end up getting fixed before it makes it into the LTS version. If everybody was running LTS stuff, it would lose that advantage because nobody would be testing things before they make it to the LTS.)
Overall, I think cutting-edge rolling release is fine for a computer that doesn't really matter, like a gaming PC. (And you'll probably get a gaming performance boost from having the latest and greatest versions of things.)
But for an essential computer that you need for doing important things, a LTS stable release is the way to go 100%.
You can write a whole essay of theory, but my experience is running several arch devices for years and years with no problems and having ubuntu distro upgrades break so badly I just reinstall completely every single time.
Another hiccup is that LTS are not actually running stable packages. They are running Frankenstein versions of packages with backports that are not supported by the project maintainers, because the software has to be maintained for security if nothing else.
I have been using Arch since ~2013 back when I still had time to mess around with it and learn the ins and outs, these days I work as a sysadmin so I want my systems at home to mostly "just work", however Arch also is that Distro for me for the most part. Most of the times I actually encountered breaking changes it was because of my process not breeing quite refined. For example I didn't regularly update my config files, so when there were changes in the PAM config syntax my login was borked, so now I check for .pacnew files on every update and sometimes I have to move over some changes.
I also don't update as often but just when I have a few minutes while I'm using my machines.
So in short I consider Arch to be a valid option for a Stable Desktop OS (if you take some precautions and don't mess with it too much).
However for servers etc. I do usually go with Debian because the packages are usually simply a bit more matured and I do major version updates as you described (explicitly setting aside some time to possibly fix arising issues).
It just means that the breaking updates could surprise you at any time.
I keep hearing this but in my roughly 20 years of running Arch that's happened no more than a handful of times. And usually because I missed an announcement. I don't know what y'all are doing to your systems but Arch has been incredibly solid for me.
And complete distro version upgrades like with CentOS/Debian have always been such a fucking massive hassle. And CentOS often deprecates hardware shit I need which of course I never find out until after I run the update and the shit won't ever boot again.
So I'm assuming you're the type who says it's on the user to carefully review all package updates before running the update (rather than running updates automatically)? And therefore the user's fault if something breaks in an update?
Yeah ... no. Ain't nobody (who has a job and/or a life) got time for that. My computer isn't a hobby, it's a tool. And, as much as possible, I want my tool to 'just work'. And I certainly don't want to spend more time than necessary maintaining it. So I'll stick with a distro where the work of vetting updates and making sure they don't break anything has already been done by someone else -- a distro where I can just run updates automatically in the background (if I choose) without any significant worry that it will interrupt my workflow in any way.
I asked a general question. You know, the one that only requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. When doing that, I am not expecting you to think anything about me
Back to the topic at hand: absurd is not automatic updates, but your foolish thinking (I would have said "illogical", but failing to follow logic and breaking its rules are differen things), now demomnstrated twice in a row. So, if that is how you want to manage your computer - well, on the second thought who am I to save you from trouble
(I should probably switch since Canonical's policies are increasingly bothering me, but meh, I can't be bothered to reinstall more than once a decade.)
24.04 will be my last ubuntu lts. 26 doubling down on snap for system level packages, yea no that's enough of that. I too was a gentoo lunatic in the early 2000s and will likely head back in that direction.
Ah, thanks for the warning. My install has been badgering me to upgrade because my (non-LTS) version just stopped getting security updates. I ought to get off my ass and switch distros.
Bleh, I don't want to keep running old software, either. If they're making the newer versions worse then it's time to ditch them for someone who's not doing that.
Don't get me wrong, I've been procrastinating about upgrading for a few weeks, but that isn't the same as staying on the same version for years.
Debian since the year after you, but I reinstall with every new version. Mostly just cuz it's a great excuse to 'start fresh' with just the applications I want and to get the 'new computer experience'. Totally unnecessary, but nice anyways.
I don't like the new computer experience. Whenever I restart, I have to rediscover all the old hardware bugs that I've made configuration changes to improve.
Same for me. I clearly separate my "experiemental" machines from my "just works" machines now.
My laptop runs LMDE, my servers are mostly Debian 13, a handful of Ubuntu Server in there. My gaming rig is Nobara Linux, which is just Glorious Egg roll's gaming-optimized Fedora build. When I first set it up a few years ago, I had everything all customized, themes, fonts, icons, fancy desktop/window effects, etc.
I actually considered just going with something vanilla recently, not because I have had any major issues with my current set up, but just because I don't feel like tinkering with it anymore.
My tinkering desire has shifted more and more towards server/enterprise infrastructure and DevOps automation.
I'm older now, my career has taken off, and with that comes more responsibilities and mental energy required during the workday, then family obligations through the week/month, etc. I find myself with less time and mental energy to just tinker and play with tech. So when I do find myself with a bit of free time, I want to maximize it and work on stuff that both helps with my actual career, and helps me get more stuff self-hosted for myself and my family.
Way back in college, I used to spend more time tweaking my PC's overclock than actually gaming xD
imho that’s kinda why i went ios for my phone. i dev in linux, deal with robotics, hardware, signals, “security” and whatnot to get paid. i just want something that works.
Nowadays you dont even have to use iOS/android to get something that just works, GrapheneOS for example also is fully there already (apart from NFC payment but that's really the only thing)
GrapheneOS for example also is fully there already
There are some caveats to that. You do have to jump through some hoops to for instance get RCS working. I think it is worth it to feel like I'm actually in control of my device, and I would even recommend it to friends and family that I'm willing to play tech support for, but I can't truthfully say I would recommend it to an arbitrary non technical person
That is true. The fact you have to even do that is a lot for some people though. There are other things as well such as wifi calling and visual voicemail not working out of the box for all carriers.
Eh. You already can't pair it with your Volkswagen (or was it Volvo? one of those car brands), a lot of Banks won't fuck with it and just won't let you use their app or website, and Google is actively trying to kill it off (whether they've said it out loud yet or not, it's happening). I'll be interested to see where it is in the next few years, hope it manages to keep going and all, but I am much more personally invested in a properly working Linux mobile option that works on a modern phone with all of the modern amenities.
Unironically, I don’t get how anyone lives with something like Arch.
Do you guys have to reinstall the OS every few months? How do you deal with the accumulation of crap and weird settings over years?
I tried Fedora and I found even that was annoying because you’ve got 50 different serviced and servicectl things to manage, which all have their own implicitly managed state, and some require committing changes through custom CLIs to update them (I have more than once forgot to push my boot settings — whatever that’s called, I’m a noob and was following guides).
I don’t think I can go back from NixOS and immutable distros. I really like that it’s hard to forget my firewall has an open port for service xyz, because the port is defined in a nix file with the service configuration.
I’m not saying the arch way or standard Linux way is wrong, not at all. It’s just incredibly not something I enjoy and it makes me feel not confident about the state of my computer.
Did this comment come from 2002? Everything literally just works. My arch box feels as stable as my Debian servers. Computers are fun again. I can't choose my player color on Spellmasons, thats the one issue I have run into.
Do you guys have to reinstall the OS every few months? How do you deal with the accumulation of crap and weird settings over years?
???
I switch on the computer after work, play some games, browse some stuff, maybe configure some program or whatever. Switch computer off and sleep.
Maybe once every month or so I run the update and it just works.
What breaking and crap accumulation fantasy do you live in? Do you not throw the trash at home or something? Just use your daily driver as you would use something normal and no weird stuff happens.
Oh, oooooh, you use Nix. You are the kind of person that can't live with their computer without tweaking it nonstop. It's people like you that break non immutable systems lmao.
I like to ask Linux people "Would you recommend Arch for a newbie?" Not because I have any intention of using Arch, but their answer to that question helps me judge the quality of their advice going forward.
Eh, rolling release distros are great for gaming. I recommend it enthusiasts (noob or not) and gamers. If you just need a rock solid platform for a server or browsing the web / word processing then sure slap some Debian or Fedora on there and call it a day.
Honestly, if you are new to Linux and are making the switch because you enjoy customisation and tinkering, a manual Arch install is the way to go. It's fun and you learn a lot, while still having a good OS.
It's still a bad place to start. Go try a curated experience or two before you try building a system from the ground up.
That also means you're less likely to end up with a final bloated system with 7 DEs, 16 shells, 4 file manager, and every piece of software installed that sounded cool because you wanted to try them all out.
you can try it. i personally recommend you install it without the archinstall script once so that you learn a bit about how linux works, and if you dont want to learn so much stuff at once, either install it through archinstall or choose a different distro. you're probably going to learn some stuff once something breaks, though that could take a while
of course though, i'd only say that to someone who shows a lot of enthusiasm for linux. if they simply don't want windows, i'd just recommend fedora
I think it depends on how we define a newbie. No experience with linux at all? Hell, no. They'll likely fail and never touch it again. Someone who understands some basics and really wants to learn? Go ahead.
I'd say no but you'll probably end up there eventually. At least for me I went crunch bang++, popOS, fedora, arch, bazzite, cachyOS, now thinking about arch again
Archwiki is an invaluable resource even when I'm not working in arch based systems. I think it's a testament to the community that the ArchWiki has been maintained at the level it has (which is quite high) for as long as it has (a long while).
One time I was eating at an Indian restaurant that had a 5-star heat scale, and then "Indian hot" which was just another level beyond the scale. I ordered 3 star heat and my buddy ordered "Indian hot." The waitress confirmed 3 times that was what he wanted (we're white).
I was impressed that my friend was managing his meal pretty well so I asked if I could try it to compare. It wasn't any hotter than mine. I'm sure the chef took one look at him and was like "I'm not remaking this dish when that white boy can't eat what he ordered." Not like my friend would've been a dick about it or demanded another dish, but yeah I doubt he could've handled the heat level he asked for. In the end, the food was great and my buddy didn't feel cheated and didn't destroy his guts.
Indian place I used to live near had a similar system. Each time, I ask for Indian hot. They confirm. What they bring is not Indian hot. They ask about it, I tell them "this is really good, but next time, I'd like hotter"
This goes on for freaking forever before he finally makes a dish that's genuinely hot, and it's great, but I can do more. Lol. The next time I come in, I tell them hotter than last time, and he says he'll make it like he does for his own mom.
Lit me up. It was really good. Not too hot for me, but hot enough that I'm pushing my limits. He asks after the meal, and I tell him it was hot enough. He says "good. I won't make any hotter! That's hot enough!" Haha
This has happened to me repeatedly at Thai places and it was honestly infuriating the first few times it happened. Luckily, I found out that at Thai places they usually have a spice tray they can bring out on request as long as you are eating at the restaurant instead of takeout. It became my common thing to expect to do so after my first bite when eating at places. At home I have my own dried peppers so I can make food as silly hot as I want.
it's funny because as an asian person i've never really run into this problem; if i ask for spicy i get spicy but i think the difference is we don't really use it as a dick measuring contest like white people do (ours are all small anyway lol). some people like spicy some people don't nobody cares what you order
it's only when either white people are ordering or white people take my order it turns into this weird back and forth and then ultimately the white customer has to be convinced he is a really strong eater and got the "authentic" spice so he can brag about it and feel like a man and then post about it on reddit
it's like vanity sizing on my pants i'm still wearing a 32 inch waist even 20 years after graduating high school now with a sizable dad bod
meanwhile i'm still so confused why there are so many memes about spicy foods changing your poop i mean sure my poop can change when eating corn or other veggies like beets but spicy vs nonspicy food never changed my poop/guts must be another white people thing. fascinating creatures, love you guys, but endlessly confusing
Haha, it's why I added the "we're white" detail near the beginning. I knew that the waitress confirming 3 separate times would probably sound weird to anyone who's not white.
I imagine that, at least for Americans, the reason spice is such a macho thing is because our food isn't very spicy, so it's more of a novelty for "sometimes" meals instead of just a standard part of our cooking. Our palettes aren't used to it, and Americans especially will compete over anything. I definitely don't want to compete with anyone when it comes to spice because I still want to enjoy my food. My ideal spice level is for the dish to be just a bit of a struggle at the end. If I shed a few tears with the last few bites, that was the right amount of spice for me.
As for the poop memes, depending on the meal, my b-hole can detect spice just as accurately as my mouth, and that is.... not fun. If your digestive system doesn't work that way then I envy you. One sufficiently traumatic "ring of fire" experience is enough to get some people to decide that spicy food is not for them. Personally, I'll risk it if the food is amazing. That's a problem for future me.
Went to a family-run Indian place in Cornwall looking for vindaloo, but the guy talked me down to a madras. Good thing cuz it was right on the edge of my tolerance level. I couldn't have eaten their vindaloo.
One of my biggest mistakes was ordering "spicy" level Thai food. Took me about a week to finish it because I could only handle one bite every few hours.
I mean, mexican spicy is way above white spicy. Hell, some white people consider pepper to be spicy. To be fair, mexican spice is still kinda low on the scale compared to thai etc.
My grandpa thought black pepper, as in salt and pepper, was too spicy. White guy born in 1933 in Australia, "ethnic food" didn't arrive in his world for a while.
Lmao. I’m from the Middle East and we eat spicy food regularly, but Indian spicy is on a whole new level for me. I’ve had their “hot” once and never again. I always get “medium”.
Same here, but I just realized how much I loved the Thai and Indian level of spice and now I'm the weirdo whose home garden is 75% "super hot" peppers.
As someone that was already in the IT realm professionally, and had previously dabbled with Linux on old hardware I decided that I would take the plunge. Trial by fire if you will.
Every distribution I had tried up to Arch didn't sit well with me. At least not to replace my Windows install. On the same note; I hated that I could only delve so deep into understanding my Windows system. And I absolutely despise the data greed from Microsoft as well.
It was time to take matters into my own hands. What better way for me to learn than to "build it myself."
The Arch Wiki was a huge help. First install I ever did I neglected to use archinstall. Just so that I could grasp some of the concepts of what archinstall was doinig.
The more and more I used Arch, the more and more I learned.
Arch has been the distribution for me. It has offered me everything that I need, and everything that I want. It has become mine to a degree that I am comfortable. It has taught me so much that it makes using other Linux distributions natural. The only real difference is that other distributions I use I just have to learn what underlying services and such are on it, and even then, the Arch Wiki has me covered.
I feel like a crack dealer right now, but, have you heard of Linux from Scratch?
I get what you mean with build it yourself, but Arch is more or less like a lego kit. LFS is the material manifestation of the concept of madness. I did it once, it was fun, it was crazy, I don't want to ever do it again. Afterwards I immediately switched my main machine from Arch to Mint. I have a deeper understanding of how an OS works under the hood now, and a strong appreciation for the work put forth by distro maintainers. All I want now is a system that works straight away. I no longer want to build myself anything. Tinkering is a hobby, I need a working tool. Today I use Bazzite and all my tinkering is devoted to how can I make rare old games run on Linux. It's the difference between buying a chair and taking up carpentry as a hobby.
I built a LFS system in the 1990s. It was cool and informative but I decided to switch to Gentoo to ease my compilation pain. Eventually I switched to Debian after waiting a day for KDE and Star Office to build in on day. 😅
I have learned of Linux from Scratch. I love the idea of it. I have sunk my teeth into learning a bit about it. I have dabbled; but never made huge progress on it.
Oh absolutely, Arch was my entry way to a deeper understanding. While I can and do compile packages myself, and pick and choose different parts of my system; it isn't the same as doing it from scratch.
I have tried a few Atomic Distros, and they just aren't my thing. Even my steam deck I switched to cachyos because I didn't want to change my behavior in how I interact with my OS.
Luckily as far as something just working; my Arch install is set and forget. I just update regularly and everything continues to work. I have not had to troubleshoot really anything.
For my usecase, I am running Arch with Limine on a luks encrypted btrfs drive with snapper and tools to sync snapshots to limine. Add in a few other tweaks, probably more I have forgotten about. And I have my perfect system.
But eventually I will delve further into LFS.
And that is just my desktop. I also have a separate arch install for my laptop. Then I have multiple servers I run various distros on. Fedora Server, Raspberry Pi OS. And I even have a test machine I use to test drive other distros and use to install packages I want to test before implementing into my current system.
Atomic and immutable is a game changer for IT. It is essentially bulletproof, everything is containerized, packages run very little risk of breaking the system. But, it is still just as customizable and flexible in the ways that matter, the user experience. It is fine to be opinionated about particular modules and pieces on your own system, but that means turning into a sys admin, I was a sys admin when I was paid to do it, it left me with no desire to do sys admin. Now I just let it rip, but still have the knowledge to tinker when and if I want to, it's no longer mandatory. Really appreciate that nowadays.
For example, a recent Bazzite update was busted in a particular way such that my laptop wouldn't boot. No problem, rollback fearlessly to a previous system image, and wait with a perfectly working machine. Two weeks later, someone else figured it out, fixed it, pushed it into stable, and now the laptop updates and boots the new image without issues. No need to meddle with snapper or limine myself. The OS itself is its own snapshot system already built-in, with minimal down time and zero risk of data loss.
Every once in a while I get the itch to tinker with something, but it is aimed at clear and specific projects in my homelab and not at just running a basic functional desktop.
Oh there are absolutely benefits to using an Atomi distro. However, for someone such as myself where I am constantly modifying my systems it doesn't make a lot of sense. For an end user that I would deploy an OS for it would make for easier support of their system. Like, if I were to get my mother to use Linux, I would choose an Atomic distro. And make it painless for me to support. She wouldn't do much customization that would require the same level of flexibility I would need for myself.
By trade I am a sys admin. So it's an easy thing for me to do for myself. I do sys admin work by day, and by night. The difference between the two is that for work I am shackled to the likes of Microsoft products. And by night, I am admin over a system that I love. So it's easily separatable for me. But I get it, you do something all day, you may not want to do it all night too.
Which, all this discussion brings to me one of my favorite thing about Linux. It can be built and used for such a wide variety of use cases, wants and needs. Not being locked into one way of using it is beautiful.
Agreed. The wiki is so good that I refer to it to fix problems on completely different distros. Also, the archinstall script is basically a TUI installer. Anyone who can install Debian can install Arch.
I think this usually comes from people using AUR or nightly packages, which can cause stuff to break if you update often. That's what I did when I first tried Arch.
Around 3 years ago I switched to Arch from Ubuntu(22.04) after 2-3 months of being a new user to Linux because I read that Arch was one of the best distros for setting up a custom system for tiling window managers. I was already testing i3wm on Ubuntu and I was ready to make i3wm my main desktop, so decided to take the Arch route. It really did feel like a jump into the dark even though I wasn't completely new.
For a moment I hated not knowing anything but after a few bruises I ended up learning enough things to be comfortable, and learning other non Linux topics by inertia. It was totally worth it, although I would tell my younger self to take it much slower.
Compassion for those poor unfortunate souls who are introduced to linux with arch, eat their system, find it too hard, and throw the entire Free Software / Open Source baby out with the one-bad-experience bathwater, thinking it's all like that, not realising freedom has availed a variety, to suit nearly all needs, preferences, skill levels.
But yeah, [windows to arch,] it's impressive [levels of patient diligent learning].
A few years back, I think I caught glimpse of a gentoo-started windows-refugee in the wild once, in passing. Add that to the rumours these mythical beings may actually exist.
I know there are actually several who started with LFS! Never underestimate the power of suggestion [... the title said Linux From Scratch... so of course that makes sense to start there! LOL].
I found it a great way to learn what the different components are actually for and how they interconnect/interact. But honestly, I would not use it as a daily driver again. I'm tired of fixing everything afer each update.
Went to Fedora, good and stable. Tried some OpenSUSE, nice and European. Settled with MX Linux. Ticked all the boxes, best Linux experience so far.
I think it really depends on the person (and a few other "luck" factors). Like, if they are truly generically computer savvy enthusiasts, they might actually have better luck on an Arch derivative. I've seen hardware compatibility issues plague a machine until it got Arch on it - sometimes that bleeding edge has what you need already and you don't have to hunt for it.
I still like the play of suggesting new people download every distro that piques their curiosity, put them all on thumb drives, and spend a weekend giving them a go. But, if they aren't willing to do that, then throw Mint or Bazzite at them and hope all their hardware just works because they probably don't fit into the category above.
Except Manjaro. I feel like at least 70% of the Arch family hate is actually Manjaro's fault. I'm glad it works for some people and they can use and enjoy it, but I just don't have the faith in it to recommend it.
I picked Arch as my first distro about a year ago or so. Sure there was some things to learn but Archinstall was a breeze and after that the popularity of the distro means that there's lots of people asking and answering questions online. Also Archwiki is just fantastic. No regrets.
I had a little experience with Debian-based stuff on routers and whatnot going in, but when I finally migrated my main PC to linux I went with an Arch-based distro (cachyos) because the documentation on both projects is fantastic. I was able to get everything set up the way I wanted in a couple of days, with only one reinstall along the way lol.
reminds me of the good ole slackware days. i ran a domain off an old 486/dx2 in the 90’s. was a 3 letter domain too. why did 22yo me let that shit expire?!?
To be fair, I did exactly that the first time i went to an Indian restaurant and it was fine. The reported spiciness was why i went though and it was great.
I've used Arch on and off since around 2006 or so. I've used most distributions, including Gentoo, and in recent years things like Debian and atomic Fedora. I've settled for NixOS now though and I don't see it changing unless a better declarative OS/language comes along (Guix is a good contender with its Scheme).
Arch is boring. It just works, has all the latest software, runs all the games, has the latest kernel...
My latest install is from 2019 I think....its exactly as fast as when I installed it, despite new versions of massive desktop environments like plasma and cosmic in this time, and hundred of new kernels and drivers.
Where is the excitement... Arch is like a rock in the sea. It doesnt change, it just is perfect the way it is.
Arch is one of the most vanilla of Linuxes. Everyone wanted to run an opinionated distro. But what we needed was the opinions of developers and fewer opinions from people who think creating a distro is a sensible way to distribute art.
Arch - every package is just the software the original developer shipped, kept up to date.
"I have art work I want to share. I know. I'll make myself responsible for the reliability of a thousand people's operating systems. I hope my cooky ideas never come into conflict with that." <- Not who you want indirectly changing files on your system when you use the package manager.
Watched an older relative of mine once stick his finger in the blob on his plate and eat a big ‘ol chunk of it thinking it was avocado. We thought he was done for
For me vanilla Arch is the easiest to use and diagnosed, I tried the switch to other distros when the malwares fiasco broke out but I feel like I'm using Linux for the first time again, I can't understand anything about the os I'm using what command I have to use to install softwares after figured it out half of my software is not in the repo so I have to compile it like a cave man and don't get me started on where are all of my config files is.
Mostly nothing, but I did have issues once where a package changed but couldn't be installed due to failing verification as the keyring wasn't updated. That killed the desktop environment on boot but dropping into the console and updating the keyring specifically before trying the full update again fixed things.
Been using it for 5+ years, not the best internet so it has happened to me a few times typically a minor annoyance like the other user said. What were the exact steps again? Makes the updating process even more tedious.
It's worse when you've got to do manual intervention and that's why I'm not updating now, legacy nvidia driver moved to the AUR (which I didn't always update). If I could get a cheap AMD card it really would help here, especially as legacy and proprietary are also potential issues with installing a new distro too.
My system is mostly usable now despite being pretty out-of-date by Arch standards, I probably need to move to something else but being outdated (and not prepared) means I can't just spin up a VM to try stuff out either.
After a while, but probably more than a month, you would need to refresh your keys as the ones that your system trusts would not match the signatures on what is being downloaded from the repo and you would be getting signature errors.
You'd just install archlinux-keyring first, and then do a full system upgrade. If that didn't work you could refresh the keys with pacman-key (pacman-key --refresh-keys) and then install archlinux-keyring->upgrade.
Your system would work fine without updating, though I guess eventually a new version of HTML will come out in a decade or so and your browser won't support it... but until then you'd be fine(security issues aside).
177 Comments
JoMiran@lemmy.ml · 121 pts · 19d
I've been working on Linux since '96. As time goes by I keep drifting more and more towards boring and stable distributions. I just don't want to be bothered with a system that needs me to groom it constantly.
Feyd@programming.dev · 77 pts · 19d
I use arch because it is the boring but stable system. Rolling release means you just keep updating it and it works forever rather than having to do big bang upgrades between LTS versions that always break something
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 19d
this
you can just choose to use software that isn't dev/nightly versions, and you're fine
unless you want to see stuff break... then you install all of the nightly versions and have stuff break sometimes!
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 23 pts · 19d
Nah. It just means that the breaking updates could surprise you at any time.
With a LTS version upgrade, I can plan for the potentially breaking updates. I can set aside time when my schedule is free to do the big update and work through any potential bullshit. It won't interrupt my work.
But in a rolling release, you're still going to get that same breaking update ... but with no warning this time. It might come at a crucial time when you're trying to get other work done, forcing you to stop your more important work and fix your computer first.
And that's not even counting the number of breaking updates. A relatively 'bleeding edge' rolling release distro like Arch is going to include much newer software versions that haven't gone through as much real-world testing and bug reporting as the stale old packages in a LTS release. The price you pay for more updated software is that it's less thoroughly tested software and more likely to include undiscovered, unfixed bugs.
By the time the same package update finally makes it to some stable LTS distro, more of the bugs have been discovered, reported, and hopefully fixed ... before you ever even see it.
(Not to say that nobody should run cutting-edge rolling release distros. I'm glad you guys are out there. You're the ones reporting those bugs that end up getting fixed before it makes it into the LTS version. If everybody was running LTS stuff, it would lose that advantage because nobody would be testing things before they make it to the LTS.)
Overall, I think cutting-edge rolling release is fine for a computer that doesn't really matter, like a gaming PC. (And you'll probably get a gaming performance boost from having the latest and greatest versions of things.)
But for an essential computer that you need for doing important things, a LTS stable release is the way to go 100%.
Feyd@programming.dev · 10 pts · 19d
You can write a whole essay of theory, but my experience is running several arch devices for years and years with no problems and having ubuntu distro upgrades break so badly I just reinstall completely every single time.
Another hiccup is that LTS are not actually running stable packages. They are running Frankenstein versions of packages with backports that are not supported by the project maintainers, because the software has to be maintained for security if nothing else.
Miaou@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 18d
Ubuntu doesn't even let you upgrade LTS version on release, they take 3 months to fix upgrade bugs.
My experience is the same as yours. Plus the problem of looking for a fix to some issue, only to find out upstream fixed this 5 years ago
somenonewho@feddit.org · 4 pts · 18d
The thing is ... I kind of agree with both takes.
I have been using Arch since ~2013 back when I still had time to mess around with it and learn the ins and outs, these days I work as a sysadmin so I want my systems at home to mostly "just work", however Arch also is that Distro for me for the most part. Most of the times I actually encountered breaking changes it was because of my process not breeing quite refined. For example I didn't regularly update my config files, so when there were changes in the PAM config syntax my login was borked, so now I check for .pacnew files on every update and sometimes I have to move over some changes. I also don't update as often but just when I have a few minutes while I'm using my machines.
So in short I consider Arch to be a valid option for a Stable Desktop OS (if you take some precautions and don't mess with it too much).
However for servers etc. I do usually go with Debian because the packages are usually simply a bit more matured and I do major version updates as you described (explicitly setting aside some time to possibly fix arising issues).
treadful@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 19d
I keep hearing this but in my roughly 20 years of running Arch that's happened no more than a handful of times. And usually because I missed an announcement. I don't know what y'all are doing to your systems but Arch has been incredibly solid for me.
And complete distro version upgrades like with CentOS/Debian have always been such a fucking massive hassle. And CentOS often deprecates hardware shit I need which of course I never find out until after I run the update and the shit won't ever boot again.
Shanmugha@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 18d
Lol. You guys write pacman -Syu into your .bashrc or what?
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 2 pts · 18d
So I'm assuming you're the type who says it's on the user to carefully review all package updates before running the update (rather than running updates automatically)? And therefore the user's fault if something breaks in an update?
Yeah ... no. Ain't nobody (who has a job and/or a life) got time for that. My computer isn't a hobby, it's a tool. And, as much as possible, I want my tool to 'just work'. And I certainly don't want to spend more time than necessary maintaining it. So I'll stick with a distro where the work of vetting updates and making sure they don't break anything has already been done by someone else -- a distro where I can just run updates automatically in the background (if I choose) without any significant worry that it will interrupt my workflow in any way.
Shanmugha@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 17d
So you went on assuming and responding to your assumptions. Yeah... no. Have a good day
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 2 pts · 17d
Well you didn't give me much else to go on, had to fill it in with assumptions.
Since you seem to consider automating updates an absurd proposition, what else am I supposed to think?
Shanmugha@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 16d
I asked a general question. You know, the one that only requires "yes" or "no" as an answer. When doing that, I am not expecting you to think anything about me
Back to the topic at hand: absurd is not automatic updates, but your foolish thinking (I would have said "illogical", but failing to follow logic and breaking its rules are differen things), now demomnstrated twice in a row. So, if that is how you want to manage your computer - well, on the second thought who am I to save you from trouble
devfuuu@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18d
I have installations reaching 10 years. It just works when you don't have to worry about "upgrades". Best choice of my life.
urandom@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18d
Also, pkgbuildis by far the simplest package build system I’ve ever encountered. That’s why aur is so prolific, though troublesome
swooper@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 19d
100%, I already gave a job and hobbies thanks.
pmk@piefed.ca · 20 pts · 19d
Polishing dotfiles is a valid hobby, and can be fun now and then, but when I need to do actual work I reach for my debian laptop.
flandish@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 19d
that reminds me. i need to commit and push my latest vimrc.
iknewitwhenisawit@fedinsfw.app · 4 pts · 19d
Surely you need to make a cron job to do this on changes? 😅
grue@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 19d
Yep.
In 2002, I used Gentoo.
In 2026, I use Kubuntu.
(I should probably switch since Canonical's policies are increasingly bothering me, but meh, I can't be bothered to reinstall more than once a decade.)
TheHound@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 18d
24.04 will be my last ubuntu lts. 26 doubling down on snap for system level packages, yea no that's enough of that. I too was a gentoo lunatic in the early 2000s and will likely head back in that direction.
grue@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18d
Ah, thanks for the warning. My install has been badgering me to upgrade because my (non-LTS) version just stopped getting security updates. I ought to get off my ass and switch distros.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 13d
What is your position on getting extended updates via a free account on their 'pro' program? That's what i did when i didn't want to leave 16.04 lts
grue@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 13d
Bleh, I don't want to keep running old software, either. If they're making the newer versions worse then it's time to ditch them for someone who's not doing that.
Don't get me wrong, I've been procrastinating about upgrading for a few weeks, but that isn't the same as staying on the same version for years.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 13d
Youve got a point. For me i dont mind old software if it works; i dont want to invest time into installing and learning a new distro on old hardware.
bus_factor@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 19d
I've used Debian since 2001 or so. I reinstall whenever I have a new computer, unless I'm decommissioning another computer at the same time.
Bilaketari@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 18d
Debian since the year after you, but I reinstall with every new version. Mostly just cuz it's a great excuse to 'start fresh' with just the applications I want and to get the 'new computer experience'. Totally unnecessary, but nice anyways.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 13d
I don't like the new computer experience. Whenever I restart, I have to rediscover all the old hardware bugs that I've made configuration changes to improve.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 3 pts · 19d
Just like me, for real!
AstronautElvis@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 16d
This was me!
2002 - - Gentoo
2026 - - Xubuntu
And I ALSO just found out how bad Canonical's policies have gotten and I'm also considering switching but it just seems like a lot :: le sigh::
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 9 pts · 19d
All roads lead to Debian Stable.
Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 18d
Same for me. I clearly separate my "experiemental" machines from my "just works" machines now.
My laptop runs LMDE, my servers are mostly Debian 13, a handful of Ubuntu Server in there. My gaming rig is Nobara Linux, which is just Glorious Egg roll's gaming-optimized Fedora build. When I first set it up a few years ago, I had everything all customized, themes, fonts, icons, fancy desktop/window effects, etc.
I actually considered just going with something vanilla recently, not because I have had any major issues with my current set up, but just because I don't feel like tinkering with it anymore.
My tinkering desire has shifted more and more towards server/enterprise infrastructure and DevOps automation.
I'm older now, my career has taken off, and with that comes more responsibilities and mental energy required during the workday, then family obligations through the week/month, etc. I find myself with less time and mental energy to just tinker and play with tech. So when I do find myself with a bit of free time, I want to maximize it and work on stuff that both helps with my actual career, and helps me get more stuff self-hosted for myself and my family.
Way back in college, I used to spend more time tweaking my PC's overclock than actually gaming xD
flandish@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 19d
imho that’s kinda why i went ios for my phone. i dev in linux, deal with robotics, hardware, signals, “security” and whatnot to get paid. i just want something that works.
kuerbiskernoel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 19d
Nowadays you dont even have to use iOS/android to get something that just works, GrapheneOS for example also is fully there already (apart from NFC payment but that's really the only thing)
Feyd@programming.dev · 4 pts · 19d
There are some caveats to that. You do have to jump through some hoops to for instance get RCS working. I think it is worth it to feel like I'm actually in control of my device, and I would even recommend it to friends and family that I'm willing to play tech support for, but I can't truthfully say I would recommend it to an arbitrary non technical person
will@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 19d
You used to have to jump through hoops for RCS, now it's a toggle, they've come a long way with that
Feyd@programming.dev · 2 pts · 19d
That is true. The fact you have to even do that is a lot for some people though. There are other things as well such as wifi calling and visual voicemail not working out of the box for all carriers.
Crozekiel@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 19d
Eh. You already can't pair it with your Volkswagen (or was it Volvo? one of those car brands), a lot of Banks won't fuck with it and just won't let you use their app or website, and Google is actively trying to kill it off (whether they've said it out loud yet or not, it's happening). I'll be interested to see where it is in the next few years, hope it manages to keep going and all, but I am much more personally invested in a properly working Linux mobile option that works on a modern phone with all of the modern amenities.
kuerbiskernoel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 19d
Both my banks work (one local, one international) and both my cars work (Volvo and Audi)
rbos@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 19d
Same. I settled on Debian around 1999 and stayed there. A brief side trip to the ope source Solaris.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 54 pts · 19d
Arch taught me how to fuck my computer and now its my main squeeze.
WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today · 28 pts · 19d
'Cause no other computer will let you
touchit, let alonesudoit.alecsargent@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 19d
sudo touch me nowlime@feddit.nu · 28 pts · 19d
it's like nobody even knows about
fingeranymoreeleijeep@piefed.social · 6 pts · 18d
unzip; strip; touch; finger; grep; mount; fsck; more; yes; fsck; fsck; umount; sleepakunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 19d
Good thing too, it's not secure. Lots of germs transmit by
fingering.panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 19d
Unironically, I don’t get how anyone lives with something like Arch.
Do you guys have to reinstall the OS every few months? How do you deal with the accumulation of crap and weird settings over years?
I tried Fedora and I found even that was annoying because you’ve got 50 different
servicedandservicectlthings to manage, which all have their own implicitly managed state, and some require committing changes through custom CLIs to update them (I have more than once forgot to push my boot settings — whatever that’s called, I’m a noob and was following guides).I don’t think I can go back from NixOS and immutable distros. I really like that it’s hard to forget my firewall has an open port for service xyz, because the port is defined in a nix file with the service configuration.
I’m not saying the arch way or standard Linux way is wrong, not at all. It’s just incredibly not something I enjoy and it makes me feel not confident about the state of my computer.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 6 pts · 19d
Did this comment come from 2002? Everything literally just works. My arch box feels as stable as my Debian servers. Computers are fun again. I can't choose my player color on Spellmasons, thats the one issue I have run into.
tenekev@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 18d
Same. Debian servers, CachyOS work laptop. Stuff just works and whatever doesn't work, i can ask gemini to find, summarise and help solve in minutes.
fushuan@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 18d
???
I switch on the computer after work, play some games, browse some stuff, maybe configure some program or whatever. Switch computer off and sleep.
Maybe once every month or so I run the update and it just works.
What breaking and crap accumulation fantasy do you live in? Do you not throw the trash at home or something? Just use your daily driver as you would use something normal and no weird stuff happens.
Oh, oooooh, you use Nix. You are the kind of person that can't live with their computer without tweaking it nonstop. It's people like you that break non immutable systems lmao.
cRazi_man@europe.pub · 45 pts · 18d
Fixed:
voodooattack@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 18d
Appreciated! I’ve always hated that nonsensical format
Agent641@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 19d
I like to ask Linux people "Would you recommend Arch for a newbie?" Not because I have any intention of using Arch, but their answer to that question helps me judge the quality of their advice going forward.
untorquer@quokk.au · 22 pts · 19d
It really depends on whether they're an enthusiast excited about it or they're just trying to ditch windows...
9/10 times, no.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 19d
And believe it or not, the 1/10 case: also no.
untorquer@quokk.au · 1 pts · 18d
Let people do dumb shit if they want to!
Azzu@leminal.space · 1 pts · 13d
I guess I'm the 0/10 case then
EarlOfSam@quokk.au · 1 pts · 19d
CubitOom@infosec.pub · 16 pts · 19d
I don't recommend things based on if people are new to it or not. I recommend things based on if they read and are willing to learn or not.
If you don't read, arch is not a good distro for you.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 10 pts · 19d
*judges the quality of your advice going forward*
CubitOom@infosec.pub · 8 pts · 19d
You should always judge the quality of advice others give, especially random internet bozos.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 19d
If you don't read, nothing is good for you, you'll kill all distros if you don't care and aren't willing to learn
CubitOom@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 19d
Agreed. Also I would rather read the archwiki than loads of outdated faq posts when troubleshooting an issue.
I guess a lot of accurate text is intimidating compared to a concise message that is very confident.
I've also seen people just refuse to read an error message. I think this is from using Microsoft products that never have accurate error messages.
Anyway, I hope people willing to learn try a whole bunch of things, and don't give up at the first problem because that is how you learn.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 2 pts · 18d
Microsoft (and not only!) Fucked up the perception of error messages so much with their innacurate errors and random gibberish
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 1 pts · 16d
The Arch wiki's secret: Most of the time, the info is applicable to other distros, even when you're running Debian oldoldstable.
Agent641@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18d
I can't read this comment 👐
CubitOom@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 18d
Slackware
Sanguine@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 19d
Eh, rolling release distros are great for gaming. I recommend it enthusiasts (noob or not) and gamers. If you just need a rock solid platform for a server or browsing the web / word processing then sure slap some Debian or Fedora on there and call it a day.
craftrabbit@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 19d
Honestly, if you are new to Linux and are making the switch because you enjoy customisation and tinkering, a manual Arch install is the way to go. It's fun and you learn a lot, while still having a good OS.
makeshift0546@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 19d
Guys stop this nonsense. I spent 2 hours in wpa_supplicant trying to fix Wi-Fi because I missed a package containing regional wpa shit.
You all vastly under estimate how quickly a novice may be overwhelmed.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 19d
I have multiple times partitioned the wrong drive. With a graphical installer.
I now physically remove the SSDs I don’t want to partition.
makeshift0546@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 18d
You mean configuring EFI, /root, /home, and /swap knowing mkfs and gparted wasn't just natural?!!!!? Noob!
treadful@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 19d
It's still a bad place to start. Go try a curated experience or two before you try building a system from the ground up.
That also means you're less likely to end up with a final bloated system with 7 DEs, 16 shells, 4 file manager, and every piece of software installed that sounded cool because you wanted to try them all out.
craftrabbit@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 18d
Yeah fair enough actually. Doing something like Fedora -> Arch is probably smarter for beginners.
bryndos@fedia.io · 3 pts · 18d
I recommend it for learning/entertainment/passtime - I don't see why anyone cant fuck with it on a vm or spare partition. Not for dependency though.
But i generally recommend people strive for some degree of independence in most things, as a good fallback.
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 19d
you can try it. i personally recommend you install it without the archinstall script once so that you learn a bit about how linux works, and if you dont want to learn so much stuff at once, either install it through archinstall or choose a different distro. you're probably going to learn some stuff once something breaks, though that could take a while
of course though, i'd only say that to someone who shows a lot of enthusiasm for linux. if they simply don't want windows, i'd just recommend fedora
placebo@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 19d
I think it depends on how we define a newbie. No experience with linux at all? Hell, no. They'll likely fail and never touch it again. Someone who understands some basics and really wants to learn? Go ahead.
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 19d
eh if you're REALLY interested in linux you can do it with no prior knowledge
though i guess you can't be that interested in linux without knowing anything...
xylol@leminal.space · 1 pts · 19d
I'd say no but you'll probably end up there eventually. At least for me I went crunch bang++, popOS, fedora, arch, bazzite, cachyOS, now thinking about arch again
voodooattack@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 18d
So what would “Would you recommend Nix for a newbie?” reveal?
Agent641@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18d
The cat shelter probably doesn't let you adopt anymore.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 32 pts · 19d
Gonzako@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 19d
Archwiki and archinstall are amazing
queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone · 25 pts · 19d
Archwiki is an invaluable resource even when I'm not working in arch based systems. I think it's a testament to the community that the ArchWiki has been maintained at the level it has (which is quite high) for as long as it has (a long while).
ekZepp@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 19d
raspirate@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 19d
One time I was eating at an Indian restaurant that had a 5-star heat scale, and then "Indian hot" which was just another level beyond the scale. I ordered 3 star heat and my buddy ordered "Indian hot." The waitress confirmed 3 times that was what he wanted (we're white).
I was impressed that my friend was managing his meal pretty well so I asked if I could try it to compare. It wasn't any hotter than mine. I'm sure the chef took one look at him and was like "I'm not remaking this dish when that white boy can't eat what he ordered." Not like my friend would've been a dick about it or demanded another dish, but yeah I doubt he could've handled the heat level he asked for. In the end, the food was great and my buddy didn't feel cheated and didn't destroy his guts.
dharmacurious@slrpnk.net · 18 pts · 19d
Indian place I used to live near had a similar system. Each time, I ask for Indian hot. They confirm. What they bring is not Indian hot. They ask about it, I tell them "this is really good, but next time, I'd like hotter"
This goes on for freaking forever before he finally makes a dish that's genuinely hot, and it's great, but I can do more. Lol. The next time I come in, I tell them hotter than last time, and he says he'll make it like he does for his own mom.
Lit me up. It was really good. Not too hot for me, but hot enough that I'm pushing my limits. He asks after the meal, and I tell him it was hot enough. He says "good. I won't make any hotter! That's hot enough!" Haha
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 19d
This has happened to me repeatedly at Thai places and it was honestly infuriating the first few times it happened. Luckily, I found out that at Thai places they usually have a spice tray they can bring out on request as long as you are eating at the restaurant instead of takeout. It became my common thing to expect to do so after my first bite when eating at places. At home I have my own dried peppers so I can make food as silly hot as I want.
nonfuinoncuro@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 18d
it's funny because as an asian person i've never really run into this problem; if i ask for spicy i get spicy but i think the difference is we don't really use it as a dick measuring contest like white people do (ours are all small anyway lol). some people like spicy some people don't nobody cares what you order
it's only when either white people are ordering or white people take my order it turns into this weird back and forth and then ultimately the white customer has to be convinced he is a really strong eater and got the "authentic" spice so he can brag about it and feel like a man and then post about it on reddit
it's like vanity sizing on my pants i'm still wearing a 32 inch waist even 20 years after graduating high school now with a sizable dad bod
meanwhile i'm still so confused why there are so many memes about spicy foods changing your poop i mean sure my poop can change when eating corn or other veggies like beets but spicy vs nonspicy food never changed my poop/guts must be another white people thing. fascinating creatures, love you guys, but endlessly confusing
raspirate@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18d
Haha, it's why I added the "we're white" detail near the beginning. I knew that the waitress confirming 3 separate times would probably sound weird to anyone who's not white.
I imagine that, at least for Americans, the reason spice is such a macho thing is because our food isn't very spicy, so it's more of a novelty for "sometimes" meals instead of just a standard part of our cooking. Our palettes aren't used to it, and Americans especially will compete over anything. I definitely don't want to compete with anyone when it comes to spice because I still want to enjoy my food. My ideal spice level is for the dish to be just a bit of a struggle at the end. If I shed a few tears with the last few bites, that was the right amount of spice for me.
As for the poop memes, depending on the meal, my b-hole can detect spice just as accurately as my mouth, and that is.... not fun. If your digestive system doesn't work that way then I envy you. One sufficiently traumatic "ring of fire" experience is enough to get some people to decide that spicy food is not for them. Personally, I'll risk it if the food is amazing. That's a problem for future me.
queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone · 22 pts · 19d
It's tough for a distro to have both a strong newbie community and a strong old-timers community at the same time. Well done Arch community!
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 19d
Went to a family-run Indian place in Cornwall looking for vindaloo, but the guy talked me down to a madras. Good thing cuz it was right on the edge of my tolerance level. I couldn't have eaten their vindaloo.
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d
Goat vindaloo 👌
DonutsRMeh@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 19d
Man, that Indian restaurant reference is just fucking spot on
DickFiasco@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 19d
One of my biggest mistakes was ordering "spicy" level Thai food. Took me about a week to finish it because I could only handle one bite every few hours.
syklemil@discuss.tchncs.de · 19 pts · 19d
One local Thai shop had the sense to offer both "
$nationalityspicy" and "thai spicy"DickFiasco@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 19d
When my wife and talk about spice level, we clarify if it's white-boy spicy or Hispanic spicy.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · -4 pts · 19d
The Venn diagram is a circle?
meekah@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 18d
I mean, mexican spicy is way above white spicy. Hell, some white people consider pepper to be spicy. To be fair, mexican spice is still kinda low on the scale compared to thai etc.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 18d
That's because spicy has multiple meanings. The numbing of pepper is spicy but not hot spicy.
You'll find white people in Mexico.
teslekova@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 18d
Yeah, white-boy spicy is an imperfect term, but helpful to stop an Anglo unused to high levels of chilli from having a bad time.
teslekova@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 18d
My grandpa thought black pepper, as in salt and pepper, was too spicy. White guy born in 1933 in Australia, "ethnic food" didn't arrive in his world for a while.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 19d
That's pretty universal at Thai places. There's hot and then Thai hot.
DonutsRMeh@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 19d
Lmao. I’m from the Middle East and we eat spicy food regularly, but Indian spicy is on a whole new level for me. I’ve had their “hot” once and never again. I always get “medium”.
DickFiasco@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 19d
Same. I grew up eating habanero and jalapeno peppers, but Thai and Indian hits different.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 19d
Same here, but I just realized how much I loved the Thai and Indian level of spice and now I'm the weirdo whose home garden is 75% "super hot" peppers.
hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 19d
As someone that was already in the IT realm professionally, and had previously dabbled with Linux on old hardware I decided that I would take the plunge. Trial by fire if you will.
Every distribution I had tried up to Arch didn't sit well with me. At least not to replace my Windows install. On the same note; I hated that I could only delve so deep into understanding my Windows system. And I absolutely despise the data greed from Microsoft as well.
It was time to take matters into my own hands. What better way for me to learn than to "build it myself."
The Arch Wiki was a huge help. First install I ever did I neglected to use archinstall. Just so that I could grasp some of the concepts of what archinstall was doinig.
The more and more I used Arch, the more and more I learned.
Arch has been the distribution for me. It has offered me everything that I need, and everything that I want. It has become mine to a degree that I am comfortable. It has taught me so much that it makes using other Linux distributions natural. The only real difference is that other distributions I use I just have to learn what underlying services and such are on it, and even then, the Arch Wiki has me covered.
dustyData@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 19d
I feel like a crack dealer right now, but, have you heard of Linux from Scratch?
I get what you mean with build it yourself, but Arch is more or less like a lego kit. LFS is the material manifestation of the concept of madness. I did it once, it was fun, it was crazy, I don't want to ever do it again. Afterwards I immediately switched my main machine from Arch to Mint. I have a deeper understanding of how an OS works under the hood now, and a strong appreciation for the work put forth by distro maintainers. All I want now is a system that works straight away. I no longer want to build myself anything. Tinkering is a hobby, I need a working tool. Today I use Bazzite and all my tinkering is devoted to how can I make rare old games run on Linux. It's the difference between buying a chair and taking up carpentry as a hobby.
iknewitwhenisawit@fedinsfw.app · 5 pts · 19d
I built a LFS system in the 1990s. It was cool and informative but I decided to switch to Gentoo to ease my compilation pain. Eventually I switched to Debian after waiting a day for KDE and Star Office to build in on day. 😅
hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 19d
I have learned of Linux from Scratch. I love the idea of it. I have sunk my teeth into learning a bit about it. I have dabbled; but never made huge progress on it.
Oh absolutely, Arch was my entry way to a deeper understanding. While I can and do compile packages myself, and pick and choose different parts of my system; it isn't the same as doing it from scratch.
I have tried a few Atomic Distros, and they just aren't my thing. Even my steam deck I switched to cachyos because I didn't want to change my behavior in how I interact with my OS.
Luckily as far as something just working; my Arch install is set and forget. I just update regularly and everything continues to work. I have not had to troubleshoot really anything.
For my usecase, I am running Arch with Limine on a luks encrypted btrfs drive with snapper and tools to sync snapshots to limine. Add in a few other tweaks, probably more I have forgotten about. And I have my perfect system.
But eventually I will delve further into LFS.
And that is just my desktop. I also have a separate arch install for my laptop. Then I have multiple servers I run various distros on. Fedora Server, Raspberry Pi OS. And I even have a test machine I use to test drive other distros and use to install packages I want to test before implementing into my current system.
dustyData@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 19d
Atomic and immutable is a game changer for IT. It is essentially bulletproof, everything is containerized, packages run very little risk of breaking the system. But, it is still just as customizable and flexible in the ways that matter, the user experience. It is fine to be opinionated about particular modules and pieces on your own system, but that means turning into a sys admin, I was a sys admin when I was paid to do it, it left me with no desire to do sys admin. Now I just let it rip, but still have the knowledge to tinker when and if I want to, it's no longer mandatory. Really appreciate that nowadays.
For example, a recent Bazzite update was busted in a particular way such that my laptop wouldn't boot. No problem, rollback fearlessly to a previous system image, and wait with a perfectly working machine. Two weeks later, someone else figured it out, fixed it, pushed it into stable, and now the laptop updates and boots the new image without issues. No need to meddle with snapper or limine myself. The OS itself is its own snapshot system already built-in, with minimal down time and zero risk of data loss.
Every once in a while I get the itch to tinker with something, but it is aimed at clear and specific projects in my homelab and not at just running a basic functional desktop.
hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 19d
Oh there are absolutely benefits to using an Atomi distro. However, for someone such as myself where I am constantly modifying my systems it doesn't make a lot of sense. For an end user that I would deploy an OS for it would make for easier support of their system. Like, if I were to get my mother to use Linux, I would choose an Atomic distro. And make it painless for me to support. She wouldn't do much customization that would require the same level of flexibility I would need for myself.
By trade I am a sys admin. So it's an easy thing for me to do for myself. I do sys admin work by day, and by night. The difference between the two is that for work I am shackled to the likes of Microsoft products. And by night, I am admin over a system that I love. So it's easily separatable for me. But I get it, you do something all day, you may not want to do it all night too.
Which, all this discussion brings to me one of my favorite thing about Linux. It can be built and used for such a wide variety of use cases, wants and needs. Not being locked into one way of using it is beautiful.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 18d
That hole was made for me!
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 18d
Unironically the average Linux experience
ImWaitingForRetcons@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 18d
Going to an Indian restaurant and asking for a lot of spice can work… if you’re a veteran of Thai or Mexican spice first
pr06lefs@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 19d
I don't see what's so hard about arch compared to debian. Different package manager, great wiki.
DickFiasco@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 19d
Agreed. The wiki is so good that I refer to it to fix problems on completely different distros. Also, the archinstall script is basically a TUI installer. Anyone who can install Debian can install Arch.
Ghoelian@piefed.social · 3 pts · 19d
I think this usually comes from people using AUR or nightly packages, which can cause stuff to break if you update often. That's what I did when I first tried Arch.
BillMurray@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 19d
Oh hey Dan Hurd!
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 19d
But Arch doesn't use Hurd.
El_Scapacabra@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 18d
Weeeellll hello there!
Mac@mander.xyz · 8 pts · 18d
Project car vs daily driver.
Just different purposes and people have different tolerances for tinkering.
Also, when you want the car to behave in a specific way, you're willing to tune it to do so.
alecsargent@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 19d
Around 3 years ago I switched to Arch from Ubuntu(22.04) after 2-3 months of being a new user to Linux because I read that Arch was one of the best distros for setting up a custom system for tiling window managers. I was already testing i3wm on Ubuntu and I was ready to make i3wm my main desktop, so decided to take the Arch route. It really did feel like a jump into the dark even though I wasn't completely new.
For a moment I hated not knowing anything but after a few bruises I ended up learning enough things to be comfortable, and learning other non Linux topics by inertia. It was totally worth it, although I would tell my younger self to take it much slower.
Digit@lemmy.wtf · 8 pts · 19d
Some windows refugees do start with arch, btw.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d
Which is awesome (as long as they know what they're getting into, or even if they don't, if they've got the patience and stamina to learn a lot)
Digit@lemmy.wtf · 3 pts · 18d
Yup.
Compassion for those poor unfortunate souls who are introduced to linux with arch, eat their system, find it too hard, and throw the entire Free Software / Open Source baby out with the one-bad-experience bathwater, thinking it's all like that, not realising freedom has availed a variety, to suit nearly all needs, preferences, skill levels.
But yeah, [windows to arch,] it's impressive [levels of patient diligent learning].
A few years back, I think I caught glimpse of a gentoo-started windows-refugee in the wild once, in passing. Add that to the rumours these mythical beings may actually exist.
I know there are actually several who started with LFS! Never underestimate the power of suggestion [... the title said Linux From Scratch... so of course that makes sense to start there! LOL].
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 18d
I laughed. Then I remembered that my first distro was Slackware.
atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 18d
I have never touched arch because i heard it was hard and i just wanted a distro that works without too much effort put in
I use nixos btw
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 18d
How do you like it?
fraksken@infosec.pub · 7 pts · 18d
I found it a great way to learn what the different components are actually for and how they interconnect/interact. But honestly, I would not use it as a daily driver again. I'm tired of fixing everything afer each update.
Went to Fedora, good and stable. Tried some OpenSUSE, nice and European. Settled with MX Linux. Ticked all the boxes, best Linux experience so far.
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 19d
Mint, Fedora, Pop_OS!.....these are good distros to start on. Some people start and end on these.
CachyOS, Arch, Manjaro......these are not what you throw at a newbie.
Senal@programming.dev · 14 pts · 19d
Get them some nix
Crozekiel@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 19d
I think it really depends on the person (and a few other "luck" factors). Like, if they are truly generically computer savvy enthusiasts, they might actually have better luck on an Arch derivative. I've seen hardware compatibility issues plague a machine until it got Arch on it - sometimes that bleeding edge has what you need already and you don't have to hunt for it.
I still like the play of suggesting new people download every distro that piques their curiosity, put them all on thumb drives, and spend a weekend giving them a go. But, if they aren't willing to do that, then throw Mint or Bazzite at them and hope all their hardware just works because they probably don't fit into the category above.
Except Manjaro. I feel like at least 70% of the Arch family hate is actually Manjaro's fault. I'm glad it works for some people and they can use and enjoy it, but I just don't have the faith in it to recommend it.
db_null@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 18d
A new distro every day... that was me last year when switching over to Linux
Fedora for my desktop, cachy on my portable is what stuck around, debian for all the homelab stuff
db_null@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 18d
I found Cachy to be a nice intro to Arch based distros, things worked well out of the box
BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 19d
I would have used Arch as a teenager, at that time I reinstalled DOS/Windows every other month anyways and learned a lot.
Eventually I got fed up with all that and switched to Mint.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 6 pts · 18d
Trial by fire
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 19d
So, where is Dan Hurd going there, and will he find gold again?
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 19d
Trick question. He always finds gold.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18d
Not always. Sometimes he is looking for gemstones. And he has been to Sierra Gordo (or whatever the name of that abandoned Galena mine is).
JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 19d
This isn't what I expected on this com
napkin2020@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 18d
EndeavourOS ftw.
Deme@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 19d
I picked Arch as my first distro about a year ago or so. Sure there was some things to learn but Archinstall was a breeze and after that the popularity of the distro means that there's lots of people asking and answering questions online. Also Archwiki is just fantastic. No regrets.
kieron115@startrek.website · 5 pts · 18d
I had a little experience with Debian-based stuff on routers and whatnot going in, but when I finally migrated my main PC to linux I went with an Arch-based distro (cachyos) because the documentation on both projects is fantastic. I was able to get everything set up the way I wanted in a couple of days, with only one reinstall along the way lol.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 5 pts · 18d
The thumbnail makes it look like an Amish Raiden from Mortal Kombat really wants me to install Arch.
hakunawazo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18d
faerbit@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 19d
Worked out for me🤷♂️
flandish@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 19d
reminds me of the good ole slackware days. i ran a domain off an old 486/dx2 in the 90’s. was a 3 letter domain too. why did 22yo me let that shit expire?!?
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 19d
To be fair, I did exactly that the first time i went to an Indian restaurant and it was fine. The reported spiciness was why i went though and it was great.
RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 19d
I did that and had to be helped out because I drank so much beer trying to wash it down.
blight@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 19d
I've used Arch on and off since around 2006 or so. I've used most distributions, including Gentoo, and in recent years things like Debian and atomic Fedora. I've settled for NixOS now though and I don't see it changing unless a better declarative OS/language comes along (Guix is a good contender with its Scheme).
Blaad@europe.pub · 3 pts · 18d
Since archinstall is a thing, arch really isn't that hard to install or use, but these days I favor nixos for the reproducibility.
okseby@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 18d
What’s architectural? I tried looking it up but didn’t find anything.
Blaad@europe.pub · 1 pts · 13d
Mb autocorrected from archinstall and i didn't notice X')
Zacpod@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 18d
Yup! Running 4 machines off a single nix config. I'll loving it!
1984@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 18d
Arch is boring. It just works, has all the latest software, runs all the games, has the latest kernel...
My latest install is from 2019 I think....its exactly as fast as when I installed it, despite new versions of massive desktop environments like plasma and cosmic in this time, and hundred of new kernels and drivers.
Where is the excitement... Arch is like a rock in the sea. It doesnt change, it just is perfect the way it is.
:)
x0x7@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 18d
Arch is one of the most vanilla of Linuxes. Everyone wanted to run an opinionated distro. But what we needed was the opinions of developers and fewer opinions from people who think creating a distro is a sensible way to distribute art.
Arch - every package is just the software the original developer shipped, kept up to date.
"I have art work I want to share. I know. I'll make myself responsible for the reliability of a thousand people's operating systems. I hope my cooky ideas never come into conflict with that." <- Not who you want indirectly changing files on your system when you use the package manager.
greywolf0x1@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 18d
Same here, Arch was so boring I ran to NixOS.
WraithGear@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18d
i just wanted off windows and to play my video games, not inherent a project, i loaded Bazzite, and only had a little unexpected project
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 19d
I'm thinking of transitioning my Laptop from Windows 10 to Arch, need a decent drive though.
Una@europe.pub · 2 pts · 19d
Like going to Japanese restaurant and asking for a whole plate of pistachio ice cream
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 19d
Watched an older relative of mine once stick his finger in the blob on his plate and eat a big ‘ol chunk of it thinking it was avocado. We thought he was done for
RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 19d
You go in there to learn. I think many know this before entering. And if they didn't plan ahead; then it's a happy accident.
ColdWater@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 18d
For me vanilla Arch is the easiest to use and diagnosed, I tried the switch to other distros when the malwares fiasco broke out but I feel like I'm using Linux for the first time again, I can't understand anything about the os I'm using what command I have to use to install softwares after figured it out half of my software is not in the repo so I have to compile it like a cave man and don't get me started on where are all of my config files is.
orenj@leminal.space · 1 pts · 19d
Me
juipeltje@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 19d
Me after 3 months of using PopOS 5 years ago.
wonderfoxxo@lamp.leemoon.network · 1 pts · 19d
@cannedtuna@lemmy.world
@vnwnmn@shitpost.poridge.club be like
vnwnmn@shitpost.poridge.club · 1 pts · 19d
@cannedtuna@lemmy.world @wonderfoxxo@lamp.leemoon.network :Cat_girls_Emoji_032:
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 1 pts · 19d
Hey, it can work, I've installed Mint for my father. Thrown him in head first!
And I'm not sure if he realized he's not running Windows anymore.
crypt0cler1c@infosec.pub · -6 pts · 18d
Arch is trash.
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18d
Arch is nice.... but i would love someone to tell me what happens if i stop updating for a month or something of the like
gnu@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 18d
Mostly nothing, but I did have issues once where a package changed but couldn't be installed due to failing verification as the keyring wasn't updated. That killed the desktop environment on boot but dropping into the console and updating the keyring specifically before trying the full update again fixed things.
flying_sheep@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 18d
By now there's an always-enabled service running that updates the keys from time to time. So this won't happen anymore on servers.
insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe · 2 pts · 18d
Been using it for 5+ years, not the best internet so it has happened to me a few times typically a minor annoyance like the other user said. What were the exact steps again? Makes the updating process even more tedious.
It's worse when you've got to do manual intervention and that's why I'm not updating now, legacy nvidia driver moved to the AUR (which I didn't always update). If I could get a cheap AMD card it really would help here, especially as legacy and proprietary are also potential issues with installing a new distro too.
My system is mostly usable now despite being pretty out-of-date by Arch standards, I probably need to move to something else but being outdated (and not prepared) means I can't just spin up a VM to try stuff out either.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18d
After a while, but probably more than a month, you would need to refresh your keys as the ones that your system trusts would not match the signatures on what is being downloaded from the repo and you would be getting signature errors.
You'd just install archlinux-keyring first, and then do a full system upgrade. If that didn't work you could refresh the keys with pacman-key (pacman-key --refresh-keys) and then install archlinux-keyring->upgrade.
Your system would work fine without updating, though I guess eventually a new version of HTML will come out in a decade or so and your browser won't support it... but until then you'd be fine(security issues aside).
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18d
so brave