Yeah, because they usually don't. One reason I started using Linux was that I started caring more about security. However, Windows tweaking apps never burned me.
I accidentally made my entire home directory executable and I only backup individual projects on my laptop since it doesnt have much valuable data. that was annoying to fix
The goddamn page required me to enable JS to see the list, after which Firefox immediately pushed the system into swap.
Anyway, makes sense since the foundation afaik funds and coordinates development of some important low-level stuff, and these dudes are invested into that (since Fuchsia apparently went nowhere, hehe). Although idk what the foundation wants with React or Neo4j.
You can dig as deep as you care to, all the way down to source code. And if you can't read code, you can learn to. If you don't want to spend the time, that's completely reasonable. But it's your choice.
Hell if I know, I recall some discussion involving grub no-splash but maybe I’m conflating the forum posts I read. The main idea is that some process is running and preventing the graceful shutdown but I haven’t read the posts in a while.
I do find it odd this only happened after a reinstall where grub is realistically the only change (shifting the install drive + boot options, deleting windows)
I know I gotta do some digging if I want to fix it but I’ve got other fish I’d rather fry
Eh, not always. For months after I started using Bazzite, Dolphin's Windows EXE thumbnailer didn't work. Should it have worked? Yeah. Why didn't it? Who fucking knows. Did it get fixed? Yes. How did it get fixed? New Plasma version I guess.
But you could find out all of those things by looking for the code and the PR that fixed it. You could also have debugged it, since source code is available. Not so on windows generally.
People in these parts will throw shade at macOS, and I get it. But whatever you think of Apple, they've traditionally done a pretty good job of making their OS such that you don't really need a manual unless you start doing more complex stuff. Someone who's not particularly computer literate can buy a cheap Mac and have it up and running in no time, without ever really needing to seek help.
I mean, 'cheap' is subjective. The Neo seems like a decent buy right now, and as the other reply said, there's always used. These things truck along nicely for many a year.
Some things are just inherently complex. And especially if you're going to use CLI (not user unfriendly in any way imo), you're gonna want to make sure you're typing in the right stuff.
Linux has the manuals built-in, they're called "man pages"
For desktop useage, fair enough; though, keep in mind that linux started and still is a server os primarily. DEs started out for the developers to have the ability to have some GUI on the side as well, no reason to hate themselves for no reason. I use arch for desktop useage, not server useage, and I'm aware that I'm the insane one, and linux being the even more insane one for actually working for what it's not even designed for. DE's are a GNU thing and all that, but still a bunch of packages made to be modular by default rather than well integrated for a specific experience. So while it is up to the developers to develop their packages, it's the distro maintainers to make it user-friendly for desktop useage; where if something is really needed, someone will make it - if noone makes it, the suggestions of popular demand will be enough motivation for someone to make it sooner or later. I often feel bad for relying on the "someone", which is why we donate, to show appreciation and support the things we love.
keep in mind that linux started and still is a server os primarily. DEs started out for the developers to have the ability to have some GUI on the side as well
Absolute nonsense. Unix GUIs and workstations predate Linux. The X Window System was first released in 1984, the Motif widget toolkit in 1989, and both were alternatives to existing proprietary GUIs. The workstation landscape was a Wild West before Windows prevailed.
Yeah every issue is basically a mystery that will lead you down a rabbit hole, be prepared to learn a lot of things and copy and paste code you do not fully understand, well if you are a layman like me
Honestly I've been using Linux for like 15 years and there have been times that just reinstalling which takes 45 minutes would have been the fastest and easiest solution to a problem I will likely never encounter again.
I recently switched to CachyOS. While I don't have the same hard-on for it that most users seem to have, I like how it's set up by default to create a btrfs snapshot of the root filesystem before and after each update. Grub can even boot into individual snapshots directly. I'm almost looking forward to the day it saves my ass after an update breaks my system.
If you have things backed up well that shouldn't take more than a few minutes but yeah there is definitely an argument to be made depending on your preference.
Definitely true when learning Linux, but to be fair, things do break on their own. Example: just yesterday I updated fedora and it broke my network connections for my vms. I certainly didn’t do that, and it seems to be a repeating issue.
But you wanna know what the difference is?
A 30 second web search identified the problem and a quick edit of the network.conf text file fixed the issue.
even if I couldn’t fix it, I could very easily roll the updates back
this issue will get fixed for good and won’t still be lingering around for 10 years
Compare that to me updating win11 on a faster more capable computer a couple weeks ago:
It broke like a bazillion things, well documented on the internet, no solutions other than “we’ll maybe fix that someday”
the computer rebooted THREE times! 3! I’ve seen two-three was a new one
it took 40 minutes on a 32 core threadripper, 64gb ram, plenty of free hard drive space, and a 4090 card. No, it wasn’t years of updates, and it wasn’t a major version update. It was maybe 1.5 months since last update.
Linux is great, not perfect, but great with great communities.
honestly wth is windows update even doing? takes my thinkpad from 2020 about 30 min to recompile my ENTIRE nixos setup from scratch. FROM SCRATCH, freshly formatted drive, 30 minites later an entirely functional DE with all apps i need installed.
How does windows manage to take longer, on better hardware, with something that should by all account be an easier cpu task? im baffled
100% agree. The windows fanbois always come out in force and defend Microsoft, they act like the abused in bad marriages defending their dirtbag husband who beats them /shrug
It’s not a problem with my computer. I didn’t do anything “wrong”. I clean installed win 11 on its own hard drive because 1) I own a retail copy and 2) my daughter is taking the lsat test and it requires windows or macOS. The install took hours. And the part that slowed it down was the update process. Ok no big deal, it’s a new install, i mean fedora fresh installs in like 15 minutes (and most of that is me clicking buttons), but whatever. So that’s it, it’s just a clean install of win11. Every month or so, I boot it up and hit the update button. It’s painful, every time. Yes I get it’s designed to slow roll in the background but come on - if I open up settings -> windows update and hit the update now button - then get to work already. It’s always a 20+ minute process. This last one was exceptionally long, but you get my point.
And these updates are always terrible, stuff breaks right away. After the last update the lock screen was all Asian characters. The rest of the OS was fine, just the lock screen changed. Dafuq? The recycle bin contents were all like hash file names. A year or two ago an update on my wife’s laptop wouldn’t proceed because the recovery partition that win11 itself created during install was too small. All other further updates wouldn’t go either because that one was stuck. Like grandma is going to resize partitions - granny’s computer is heading towards bot ville.
Anyways ya, windows sucks big hairy donkey balls now. 50% of that suckage comes from windows update. The other 50% comes from them shoving poo in your face every chance it gets.
Update your Windows PC weekly and reboot once a week and that will resolve 90% or more of your issues. Updates are frequent, delaying the install can cause several problems. 1.5 months since last update is regularly an issue even in the enterprise space.
Not saying that is acceptable to most people. But best practice is to allow updates and to apply them at least once a week.
I guess it may be smaller updates like .NET and some drivers. .NET and most of the other smaller updates shouldn't even need restarting, they just eat your CPU and take ages because Microsoft is silently compiling them in the background on your computer.
Nowadays, Microsoft Defender's definitions are, for some reason, also shipped through Microsoft Update. You can get those daily or every few days, but they're fast and won't affect your system in any way.
Drivers usually shouldn't be common after installing the first batch, so I doubt you'd get a lot of those in 1.5 months.
Indeed, Microsoft only ships system updates on patch tuesday, the second tuesday of the month.
So this user could only have had a max of 2 system updates, 1-2 driver updates maybe (unlikely, though), and then possibly another 1-2 .NET updates. If the user has Defender activated, add a definitions update. Keep in mind that this is basically worst case scenario. Those updates should never cause issues, be that slow, or require 3 reboots.
Microsoft does only once a month sure, but OEM vendors push firmware, drivers, and BIOS updates through Windows update whenever they want. Windows is not the only thing that requires updating.
Indeed, last time I paid for windows was like windows 7. Only free upgrades since then.
But fixing a bug is not as simple as "fork it or help fix it", those are by far the most complicated options that only a tiny faction of users (can) take.
"help fix it" can be opening a good issue with instructions on how to recreate and details, it can be testing new features and fixes, or even paying someone some money to fix it for you and contribute to upstream. (Gitcoin, upwork etc.)
How to recreate it? There are SO many variables. I am not going to set up a new system just too see if I can replicate some bug... unless it is a really big issue with something very important, at which point someone already did that.
I put mint on My laptop at work and it took 3 months for anyone to ask me about it. My laptop is frequently used by 5 other people with zero Linux experience lol, and barely any real PC experience.
I put mint on my elderly moms pc. Basically no difference for her. Also less maintenance and issues, since all she does is use the browser, Libre Office writer and print.
It was a joke, but actually, yeah, it has a good chance.
When if freezes, whatever was going wrong will likely be all over the dmesg log. as long as it's just frozen, you'll likely see what was going on. there's usually at least some brief inkling before it explodes.
Yes, when something is forced on a person, that tends to lead to resentment. Meanwhile if a person freely chooses something, they may wonder if they chose properly.
If I pay 100+ dollars for something I expected to ship with basic drivers. If it’s free, I’m un surprised if and when it rarely doesn’t have the drivers I need
Years ago, coming from Windows 7, I decided Linux Mint was simple enough to dip my toes into Linux. Some jackass had posted a guide to manually install a cool looking desktop environment and I fell for it faster than an idiot born yesterday.
Sure, the DE worked and looked cool for a day or two. But it was massively borked after the first security update. Looking back, I wouldn't do anything different. I am grateful for that tough first lesson. After spending the subsequent days reading about the different distros, I picked one that was notoriously un-shiny and I read the documentation. Whenever I think about adding shiny, unsupported thingies, I think about how fast foolish decisions can tank the OS.
I never had issues on windows 11, but fuck that noise.
Ive since moved CachyOS, I’ve put in 30-60 mins a week fixing or setting up things. The recent was a random “a wedged CEF cache in the Steam client”. Im happy to pay it and i learn more of a system im part of. Im in awe of all the work already done in linux.
I just moved my EXT4 home folder off of my old Cachy install onto my new NixOS install on a different drive before deciding to stick with just installing a fresh CachyOS on that same drive meaning a reformatting. I had meant to just copy the files so now I basically just nuked all my data :(
Mad at myself right now as I'm seeing if i can save any data using ddrescue and DMDE
Well.... Funny but not quite true. Let's talk about updating certain distro that always break something new. Now before we go into distro wars, I'm aware I could just go for a more "stable" distro but yeah, problems definily occurs in Linux but I would never go back to windows.
If your are on a rolling release distro, that's on you. Especially one that needs to build everything as part of the install process. We know what we signed up for.
That's most likely Nextcloud desktop's fault though. One time I was syncing my games folder and it had an error downloading some files and when I clicked retry sync it apparently decided that I had deleted the games folder so it just immediately removed the entire thing from my Nextcloud server. Didn't even send it to trash despite me having the option to put deleted files in trash enabled.
Oh look the fstab command I didn't fully understand has written all the NTFS indexes over the partition tables on all my hard drives... Whelp time to learn data recovery.
Oh man I built my kernel and added some patches and oh boy did I fuck my install. Had to start it over, so annoying. Thankfully I had everything backed up took me an hour to get it all fixed.
I've broken my desktop by running a pacman -Syu a few times. That was hardly my fault unless you consider my choice to use a rolling distro to be a fault in itself.
Isn't Arch the distro where you're supposed to read the update announcements and react to issues accordingly? Obviously someone is going to experience an issue for the first time, but a proper Arch user takes on a lot of responsibilities that e.g. Debian users don't accept.
That tends to happen once in a while, usually because of Nvidia. One time happened because of GRUB update though I wasn't affected that time since I was using systemd-boot. That's not the reason I moved over to Void but gotta say I'm quite happy with the slower pace of rolling-release.
When something is broken on windows, you may find a Microsoft Forum post with all dead links telling you to check an option in settings that is no longer there, and then run chkdsk.
Of course, none of those are gonna work, and you'll just have to learn to live with whatever is broken.
The internet is run by Linux machines. Windows and Mac aren’t hosting that shit, Linux is. Even Microsoft uses Linux for that. France and Germany are switching over after seeing enormous cost savings. Gamers are flocking to it to make their old hardware less terrible to use and distros like bazzite are making it easy. AI data centers are all running on Linux. Not a single one runs windows 11 or windows server, at least not bare metal.
Windows is most common as an endpoint device that’s not very important and does comparatively little work. It’s a terminal UI at this point.
Everybody is using it. Literally nothing you use your windows box for would run with out it. Take a seat.
Because humans are creatures of habit, and as long as stuff works for them, even suboptimally, a lot of people aren't inclined to change their habits, even if it might mean a change would improve their lives. As long as sth is "good enough", there simply isn't an incentive for change.
Also, since there isn't a huge corporation behind Linux, there is literally no direct advertisement for it, so people who aren't into tech simply never will get in touch with it.
118 Comments
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 111 pts · 5d
I mean that's the whole deal for me. I can take it if I know I can fix it
There is no fixing microsoft
Viceversa@lemmy.world · -36 pts · 5d
But there is. People create their own fixes, configurations and utilities all the time.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 60 pts · 4d
By reverse engineering black box shit, then providing binaries everyone is just supposed to trust don’t also contain malware?
djdarren@piefed.social · 29 pts · 4d
And those binaries are to fix the black box shit that is subject to alteration at any time, rendering them useless.
teslekova@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 4d
Yeah, because they usually don't. One reason I started using Linux was that I started caring more about security. However, Windows tweaking apps never burned me.
Viceversa@lemmy.world · -17 pts · 4d
Still
87Six@lemmy.zip · 66 pts · 5d
me shily walking over to my timeshift snapshots after running
sudo chmod -R 775 /
Instead of with a dot...
Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de · 24 pts · 5d
Plot twist: Your snapshots were mounted when you did that and are now also very accessible.
Ooops@feddit.org · 9 pts · 4d
People actually thought about that... so snapshots are read-only by design
87Six@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 5d
shudders
But no I use an externall HDD docked with a... Usb dock thing whatever it's called
That's accessible from a USB Ubuntu... Right?
Right?????
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 4d
Sounds to me like you haven't tested your backups suitably if you are asking.
87Six@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 4d
I did test with a usb. I'm joking
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 4d
TimeShift was probably one of the most important teaching aides I had when I first started on Linux.
I've been on Bazzite for a couple years now, so I have no need for it anymore.
But I learned sooooo much by breaking my EndeavourOS install and then rolling back.
I've only had to rollback with Bazzite once so far (it's hard to break), and it was literally just one rpm-ostree command. Love it.
turbowafflz@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 4d
I accidentally made my entire home directory executable and I only backup individual projects on my laptop since it doesnt have much valuable data. that was annoying to fix
rumba@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 3d
NixOS
my system config is in git.
my home folder is in syncthing with a command to stop sync if a significant change is requested.
Sure is fucking hard to setup tho :)
87Six@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 3d
Meanwhile i can't setup a fucking web project so indexing doesn't take 5 minutes 😭🤣
Strider@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
(seriously asking)
Why even use ./ if you can just use . and are not executing anything? Am I missing something? It seems like a bad habit.
(OK on my case of course the incentive to use dot is higher than slash because it needs shift contrary to dot)
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 50 pts · 4d
Linux Inc. does not spend billions of dollars ensuring you have no options but Linux.
It also doesn't exist, so that helps too.
Geodes_n_Gems@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 4d
My favourite Corporations are the ones that don't exist
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 4d
Well, ackshually
provectus@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3d
And take a look at the platinum members
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d
The goddamn page required me to enable JS to see the list, after which Firefox immediately pushed the system into swap.
Anyway, makes sense since the foundation afaik funds and coordinates development of some important low-level stuff, and these dudes are invested into that (since Fuchsia apparently went nowhere, hehe). Although idk what the foundation wants with React or Neo4j.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 28 pts · 4d
One of the reasons I love Linux, actually.
Nobody to blame but myself, so let's start figuring this shit out I guess
zurohki@aussie.zone · 15 pts · 4d
You can dig as deep as you care to, all the way down to source code. And if you can't read code, you can learn to. If you don't want to spend the time, that's completely reasonable. But it's your choice.
Takapapatapaka@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 24 pts · 5d
Tbf the biggest problems i had with linux were caused by some Windows partition so the first image may as well apply to the second case sometimes.
BlueOysterCultist@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 4d
I weirdly got a problem after blowing away my windows partition
Shutting down the computer (mint) doesn’t fully shut down anymore, so I gotta physically hold down the power button til it goes off
Internet says something with grub is probs wack, but I’m lazy so I just made a shortcut to “shutdown -f 0” and called it good
Ghoelian@piefed.social · 1 pts · 3d
Afaik grub should not have any effect on shutting down. Grub is the bootloader, after it has loaded the kernel, it's done.
BlueOysterCultist@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3d
Hell if I know, I recall some discussion involving grub no-splash but maybe I’m conflating the forum posts I read. The main idea is that some process is running and preventing the graceful shutdown but I haven’t read the posts in a while.
I do find it odd this only happened after a reinstall where grub is realistically the only change (shifting the install drive + boot options, deleting windows)
I know I gotta do some digging if I want to fix it but I’ve got other fish I’d rather fry
Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 23 pts · 4d
Eh, not always. For months after I started using Bazzite, Dolphin's Windows EXE thumbnailer didn't work. Should it have worked? Yeah. Why didn't it? Who fucking knows. Did it get fixed? Yes. How did it get fixed? New Plasma version I guess.
Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 4d
Thats the other thing: a glaring issue or bug with linux is likely to be fixed within a few days.
Ive had issues with microsoft in 2012 that still exist today
Ghoelian@piefed.social · 2 pts · 3d
But you could find out all of those things by looking for the code and the PR that fixed it. You could also have debugged it, since source code is available. Not so on windows generally.
red_tomato@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 5d
Other Linux users to you: RTFM you fucking donkey!
Allero@lemmy.today · 15 pts · 4d
Hot take: user-friendly system shouldn't require the manual to operate normally.
djdarren@piefed.social · 6 pts · 4d
People in these parts will throw shade at macOS, and I get it. But whatever you think of Apple, they've traditionally done a pretty good job of making their OS such that you don't really need a manual unless you start doing more complex stuff. Someone who's not particularly computer literate can buy a cheap Mac and have it up and running in no time, without ever really needing to seek help.
swab148@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 4d
Where?
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
Buy used. Worked great for me.
djdarren@piefed.social · 0 pts · 4d
I mean, 'cheap' is subjective. The Neo seems like a decent buy right now, and as the other reply said, there's always used. These things truck along nicely for many a year.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 4d
Some things are just inherently complex. And especially if you're going to use CLI (not user unfriendly in any way imo), you're gonna want to make sure you're typing in the right stuff.
Linux has the manuals built-in, they're called "man pages"
muhyb@programming.dev · 10 pts · 4d
Let's start learning with how to use man:
man manJaycifer@piefed.social · 3 pts · 4d
Woah, I had no idea about this. It look like there is a lot to dig into, thanks!
muhyb@programming.dev · 2 pts · 4d
You're welcome! There is also
tldrthat's quite useful too.MrChewy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 4d
For desktop useage, fair enough; though, keep in mind that linux started and still is a server os primarily. DEs started out for the developers to have the ability to have some GUI on the side as well, no reason to hate themselves for no reason. I use arch for desktop useage, not server useage, and I'm aware that I'm the insane one, and linux being the even more insane one for actually working for what it's not even designed for. DE's are a GNU thing and all that, but still a bunch of packages made to be modular by default rather than well integrated for a specific experience. So while it is up to the developers to develop their packages, it's the distro maintainers to make it user-friendly for desktop useage; where if something is really needed, someone will make it - if noone makes it, the suggestions of popular demand will be enough motivation for someone to make it sooner or later. I often feel bad for relying on the "someone", which is why we donate, to show appreciation and support the things we love.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 4d
Absolute nonsense. Unix GUIs and workstations predate Linux. The X Window System was first released in 1984, the Motif widget toolkit in 1989, and both were alternatives to existing proprietary GUIs. The workstation landscape was a Wild West before Windows prevailed.
Shanmugha@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 4d
Hot take: oh, linux systems do operate normally. Until they get butchered by user
sockinacock@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 4d
Hotter take: Ease of access has ruined modern computing. The ideal desktop interface is the one they have in the Alien universe.
Allero@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 4d
Is this you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8s9uzPIqQ4
MalReynolds@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 5d
We need to get over that for newbs. The experienced person already knows they're a donkey.
notaviking@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 4d
Yeah every issue is basically a mystery that will lead you down a rabbit hole, be prepared to learn a lot of things and copy and paste code you do not fully understand, well if you are a layman like me
tempest@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 4d
Or just keep back ups and reinstall the OS.
Honestly I've been using Linux for like 15 years and there have been times that just reinstalling which takes 45 minutes would have been the fastest and easiest solution to a problem I will likely never encounter again.
rtxn@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 4d
I recently switched to CachyOS. While I don't have the same hard-on for it that most users seem to have, I like how it's set up by default to create a btrfs snapshot of the root filesystem before and after each update. Grub can even boot into individual snapshots directly. I'm almost looking forward to the day it saves my ass after an update breaks my system.
iamthetot@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 4d
Same except I'm using Limine. Cachy has been incredibly smooth for me, despite the reputation surrounding arch.
LucidNightmare@anarchist.nexus · 1 pts · 4d
My new go to plan. Thank you for the idea!
lost_faith@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 4d
Timeshift or equivalent, love my daily backups and very fast restore plus 2 anchor points. Saved me a few times and the gf once so far.
The_v@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
When you go down the rabbit hole a debate starting from scratch again:
45 minutes to re-install the OS.
Another couple of hours to get all of the common programs you use downloaded and installed.
A full month or more of customizing everything to your preferences and downloading the programs you rarely use.
Mongostein@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 4d
You completely skipped the “keep backups” part which prevents most of this.
tempest@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 4d
If you have things backed up well that shouldn't take more than a few minutes but yeah there is definitely an argument to be made depending on your preference.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
This is where Ansible comes in.
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 4d
No, that's pretty typical even for an experienced Windows admin.
Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 4d
Definitely true when learning Linux, but to be fair, things do break on their own. Example: just yesterday I updated fedora and it broke my network connections for my vms. I certainly didn’t do that, and it seems to be a repeating issue.
But you wanna know what the difference is?
Compare that to me updating win11 on a faster more capable computer a couple weeks ago:
Linux is great, not perfect, but great with great communities.
tutter@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 3d
honestly wth is windows update even doing? takes my thinkpad from 2020 about 30 min to recompile my ENTIRE nixos setup from scratch. FROM SCRATCH, freshly formatted drive, 30 minites later an entirely functional DE with all apps i need installed.
How does windows manage to take longer, on better hardware, with something that should by all account be an easier cpu task? im baffled
Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 3d
100% agree. The windows fanbois always come out in force and defend Microsoft, they act like the abused in bad marriages defending their dirtbag husband who beats them /shrug
It’s not a problem with my computer. I didn’t do anything “wrong”. I clean installed win 11 on its own hard drive because 1) I own a retail copy and 2) my daughter is taking the lsat test and it requires windows or macOS. The install took hours. And the part that slowed it down was the update process. Ok no big deal, it’s a new install, i mean fedora fresh installs in like 15 minutes (and most of that is me clicking buttons), but whatever. So that’s it, it’s just a clean install of win11. Every month or so, I boot it up and hit the update button. It’s painful, every time. Yes I get it’s designed to slow roll in the background but come on - if I open up settings -> windows update and hit the update now button - then get to work already. It’s always a 20+ minute process. This last one was exceptionally long, but you get my point.
And these updates are always terrible, stuff breaks right away. After the last update the lock screen was all Asian characters. The rest of the OS was fine, just the lock screen changed. Dafuq? The recycle bin contents were all like hash file names. A year or two ago an update on my wife’s laptop wouldn’t proceed because the recovery partition that win11 itself created during install was too small. All other further updates wouldn’t go either because that one was stuck. Like grandma is going to resize partitions - granny’s computer is heading towards bot ville.
Anyways ya, windows sucks big hairy donkey balls now. 50% of that suckage comes from windows update. The other 50% comes from them shoving poo in your face every chance it gets.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
idk microsoft has given me those damn expectations
Jyek@sh.itjust.works · -13 pts · 4d
Update your Windows PC weekly and reboot once a week and that will resolve 90% or more of your issues. Updates are frequent, delaying the install can cause several problems. 1.5 months since last update is regularly an issue even in the enterprise space.
Not saying that is acceptable to most people. But best practice is to allow updates and to apply them at least once a week.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 4d
Microsoft only ships updates once a month. Did you fall into a time hole from 2001?
black0ut@pawb.social · 2 pts · 4d
I guess it may be smaller updates like .NET and some drivers. .NET and most of the other smaller updates shouldn't even need restarting, they just eat your CPU and take ages because Microsoft is silently compiling them in the background on your computer.
Nowadays, Microsoft Defender's definitions are, for some reason, also shipped through Microsoft Update. You can get those daily or every few days, but they're fast and won't affect your system in any way.
Drivers usually shouldn't be common after installing the first batch, so I doubt you'd get a lot of those in 1.5 months.
Indeed, Microsoft only ships system updates on patch tuesday, the second tuesday of the month.
So this user could only have had a max of 2 system updates, 1-2 driver updates maybe (unlikely, though), and then possibly another 1-2 .NET updates. If the user has Defender activated, add a definitions update. Keep in mind that this is basically worst case scenario. Those updates should never cause issues, be that slow, or require 3 reboots.
Jyek@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 3d
Microsoft does only once a month sure, but OEM vendors push firmware, drivers, and BIOS updates through Windows update whenever they want. Windows is not the only thing that requires updating.
dismay3915@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 4d
Because:
Eheran@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 4d
Indeed, last time I paid for windows was like windows 7. Only free upgrades since then.
But fixing a bug is not as simple as "fork it or help fix it", those are by far the most complicated options that only a tiny faction of users (can) take.
dismay3915@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
"help fix it" can be opening a good issue with instructions on how to recreate and details, it can be testing new features and fixes, or even paying someone some money to fix it for you and contribute to upstream. (Gitcoin, upwork etc.)
Eheran@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2d
How to recreate it? There are SO many variables. I am not going to set up a new system just too see if I can replicate some bug... unless it is a really big issue with something very important, at which point someone already did that.
Katrisia@lemmy.today · 16 pts · 4d
Still new, trying Linux Mint Cinnamon. I don't think I can break it. It's super user friendly.
Mountainaire@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 3d
Don't worry. You can. Just keep tinkering. Get that Timeshift ready...
Toga77@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 4d
I put mint on My laptop at work and it took 3 months for anyone to ask me about it. My laptop is frequently used by 5 other people with zero Linux experience lol, and barely any real PC experience.
inzen@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 4d
I put mint on my elderly moms pc. Basically no difference for her. Also less maintenance and issues, since all she does is use the browser, Libre Office writer and print.
Toga77@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d
That's awesome lol, if she can manage so can anyone else.
This might be the year lol
Dicska@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 3d
Mine breaks on its own once I sit down with my food to watch some videos.
I fucking swear it knows when I'm eating.
I probably have a faulty CPU, though. I wish there was an easy way to tell (after several flawless RAM tests and two different GPUs),
rumba@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 3d
Start dmesg when you're eating, put it in the corner. You can cancel out murphys law with a watched pot never boils.
Dicska@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
Thanks, I'll try that! Does it even save if the PC freezes solid? Because that's what usually happens.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 3d
It was a joke, but actually, yeah, it has a good chance.
When if freezes, whatever was going wrong will likely be all over the dmesg log. as long as it's just frozen, you'll likely see what was going on. there's usually at least some brief inkling before it explodes.
Archimedes@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 4d
True freedom means responsibility. You should have the right to destroy yourself and your OS
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 4d
Yes, when something is forced on a person, that tends to lead to resentment. Meanwhile if a person freely chooses something, they may wonder if they chose properly.
ResistingArrest@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 4d
If I pay 100+ dollars for something I expected to ship with basic drivers. If it’s free, I’m un surprised if and when it rarely doesn’t have the drivers I need
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space · 10 pts · 4d
"Oh maybe I could fix it by trying this thing."
"But what if it messes things up?"
"Ah it'll be just fine if I mess around here just this once."
"It'll work don't worry."
rumba@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 3d
ILurkAndIKnowThings@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 4d
Years ago, coming from Windows 7, I decided Linux Mint was simple enough to dip my toes into Linux. Some jackass had posted a guide to manually install a cool looking desktop environment and I fell for it faster than an idiot born yesterday.
Sure, the DE worked and looked cool for a day or two. But it was massively borked after the first security update. Looking back, I wouldn't do anything different. I am grateful for that tough first lesson. After spending the subsequent days reading about the different distros, I picked one that was notoriously un-shiny and I read the documentation. Whenever I think about adding shiny, unsupported thingies, I think about how fast foolish decisions can tank the OS.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 3d
ok one more joke...
Linux Video Driver after an update repair starter kit
swooper@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 4d
I never had issues on windows 11, but fuck that noise.
Ive since moved CachyOS, I’ve put in 30-60 mins a week fixing or setting up things. The recent was a random “a wedged CEF cache in the Steam client”. Im happy to pay it and i learn more of a system im part of. Im in awe of all the work already done in linux.
NotSteve_@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 4d
I just moved my EXT4 home folder off of my old Cachy install onto my new NixOS install on a different drive before deciding to stick with just installing a fresh CachyOS on that same drive meaning a reformatting. I had meant to just copy the files so now I basically just nuked all my data :(
Mad at myself right now as I'm seeing if i can save any data using ddrescue and DMDE
molten_boron@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 4d
I didn't know you couldn't just move an encrypted partition a bit to the left. Ended up wiping out the headers without backing them up.
All my data is technically still there, I guess. ¯\(ツ)/¯
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
See if the headers are duplicated somewhere else on the partition (at the end or somesuch).
molten_boron@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 4d
I tried that immediately after I realized my mistake. No such luck, unfortunately.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
Hmmm, bit of an oversight on the part of whoever came up with the encryption format. The disk blocks can just fail by themselves, after all.
Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 4d
Well.... Funny but not quite true. Let's talk about updating certain distro that always break something new. Now before we go into distro wars, I'm aware I could just go for a more "stable" distro but yeah, problems definily occurs in Linux but I would never go back to windows.
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev · 1 pts · 4d
If your are on a rolling release distro, that's on you. Especially one that needs to build everything as part of the install process. We know what we signed up for.
Sabata11792@ani.social · 4 pts · 4d
My Nvidia drivers broke on my old rig I'm using as a server. I got lucky and fixed it running akmods and not doing an 8 hour blood ritual.
KneeTitts@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 4d
Ya I just went through this myself, long story short, never sync your home dir to nextcloud via the desktop client. Do the sub folders one at a time.
solxix@pawb.social · 4 pts · 4d
That's most likely Nextcloud desktop's fault though. One time I was syncing my games folder and it had an error downloading some files and when I clicked retry sync it apparently decided that I had deleted the games folder so it just immediately removed the entire thing from my Nextcloud server. Didn't even send it to trash despite me having the option to put deleted files in trash enabled.
sockinacock@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 4d
Oh look the fstab command I didn't fully understand has written all the NTFS indexes over the partition tables on all my hard drives... Whelp time to learn data recovery.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 4d
I feel like fucking up fstab is a rite of passage
ranzispa@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 4d
I don't remember if I did, I probably did. But I definitely dd'd the wrong drive at some point.
To be fair, I prefer a GUI for anything that touches partitions: it's much easier not to fuck it up.
muhyb@programming.dev · 4 pts · 4d
Btw just a PSA: You don't need to manually edit
fstabwhen there is Gnome Disks (gnome-disk-utility).Crackhappy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
Oh man I built my kernel and added some patches and oh boy did I fuck my install. Had to start it over, so annoying. Thankfully I had everything backed up took me an hour to get it all fixed.
graphito@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 3d
Dishwasher breaks a plate - heck this stupid machine
Now if I break a plate -- oh well, stuff happens
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 3d
Ever trigger OOM in alpine Linux in aarch64?
“Oh you broke weirdly…”
ThillyGooth@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 4d
I've broken my desktop by running a pacman -Syu a few times. That was hardly my fault unless you consider my choice to use a rolling distro to be a fault in itself.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 3 pts · 4d
Isn't Arch the distro where you're supposed to read the update announcements and react to issues accordingly? Obviously someone is going to experience an issue for the first time, but a proper Arch user takes on a lot of responsibilities that e.g. Debian users don't accept.
muhyb@programming.dev · 2 pts · 4d
That tends to happen once in a while, usually because of Nvidia. One time happened because of GRUB update though I wasn't affected that time since I was using systemd-boot. That's not the reason I moved over to Void but gotta say I'm quite happy with the slower pace of rolling-release.
woelkchen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 4d
I curse Canonical whenever I have to use Ubuntu. #equality
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d
Skill issue.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 4d
When something broken in windows, you can usually find a working tutorial how to fix it via GUI
In Linux however... Working tutorial...
HAHAHAHAHA
Quatlicopatlix@feddit.org · 7 pts · 4d
Archwiki? Linux administrators handbook? Countless other books and forums?
black0ut@pawb.social · 7 pts · 4d
When something is broken on windows, you may find a Microsoft Forum post with all dead links telling you to check an option in settings that is no longer there, and then run
chkdsk.Of course, none of those are gonna work, and you'll just have to learn to live with whatever is broken.
borQue@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 4d
https://www.linux.org/forums/
starik@lemmy.today · -14 pts · 3d
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 3d
The internet is run by Linux machines. Windows and Mac aren’t hosting that shit, Linux is. Even Microsoft uses Linux for that. France and Germany are switching over after seeing enormous cost savings. Gamers are flocking to it to make their old hardware less terrible to use and distros like bazzite are making it easy. AI data centers are all running on Linux. Not a single one runs windows 11 or windows server, at least not bare metal.
Windows is most common as an endpoint device that’s not very important and does comparatively little work. It’s a terminal UI at this point.
Everybody is using it. Literally nothing you use your windows box for would run with out it. Take a seat.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 3d
Click the little dots people, hit block, carry on.
laserm@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
Android is Linux.. did you know that?
While Linux isn't the most used system on desktops, it's easily the most used OS overall..
blackberry28@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 3d
Because humans are creatures of habit, and as long as stuff works for them, even suboptimally, a lot of people aren't inclined to change their habits, even if it might mean a change would improve their lives. As long as sth is "good enough", there simply isn't an incentive for change.
Also, since there isn't a huge corporation behind Linux, there is literally no direct advertisement for it, so people who aren't into tech simply never will get in touch with it.
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 3d
Try trolling more subtly in the future.