oh come on. I don't ever say it outside of meme contexts. I just personally enjoy rolling releases and don't really like the corporate feeling of Fedora, so i'm left with only really Arch as a good option.
Funny that it's not a rolling distro, yet it is often ahead of my cachyos box. It's astounding how fast fedora puts stuff out yet never any effort on my part to manage it. Unlike cachy or even arch.
It's not "coming from" Red Hat, Fedora is forked from it originally but is directly downstream from the linux kernel, there's no Red Hat involved between the Linux Foundation and the Fedora devs.
In fact, there's no more Red Hat at all, there's only RHEL, which is downstream from Fedora.
Fedora is not downstream from Red Hat. I don't know how to put that in any plainer terms...
Fair point, and Void is cool in its own right, but there are good reasons it mostly falls under "obscure" distro category.
First is, of course, the systemd-free nature of it. Linux world absolutely needs systemd-free distros, but your average Linux user simply doesn't know how to handle them properly, and the learning curve is somewhat steep. Besides, everyone and everything comes with an assumption you run systemd, so often times, you'll be on your own figuring out the correct fix.
Second is a relatively small userbase. Void, while not being completely unknown, is not by any means a mainstream distro. We have those - some people still run Slackware, for example - but they quickly fall outside the scope of most users due to a relatively underdeveloped community, which is crucial for a Linux project.
This is why Void is often not even seen as an option.
Runit is actually quite simple. If you want a service that your distro packages, you just have to install it and symlink it's directory from (in void's case) /etc/sv/app-or-service to /var/service/app-or-service.
Inside that dir you'll find a "run" script and, maybe, a "finish" script that the service manager (sv) will use to initiate and interrupt the service. This is helpful to know if you want to create custom services; i have some for things like brightness, manual tiling, and clipboard management.
I see! But there's still much more than service management, not all of it packaged into the "init" part of systemd. And each of these things need to be learned. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just one more big headache on top of what Linux already is.
Also, out of curiosity from someone who barely touched Void - how do you create a custom service? Is writing run and finish scripts sufficient?
Yeah, that's all there is to it. The finish script is optional, and rememer to make your links.
You can have user level services by making links for runsvdir-USERNAME. This creates a service that manages your services.
It could probably be more robustn but here's my setup:
$ readlink {/etc/sv,/var/service}/runsvdir-$USER | sed "s:$USER:USERNAME:g"
/home/USERNAME/.dotfiles/runsvdir-USERNAME
/etc/sv/runsvdir-USERNAME
$ print -l /etc/sv/runsvdir-$USER/*(.)
/etc/sv/runsvdir-USERNAME/conf
/etc/sv/runsvdir-USERNAME/finish
/etc/sv/runsvdir-USERNAME/run
$ print -l /etc/sv/runsvdir-$USER/*(.) | to -b -C '#' -A $'\n' cat | sed "s:$USER:USERNAME:g"
# /etc/sv/runsvdir-USERNAME/conf
#!/bin/sh
set -eu
self="$(realpath "$0")"
root="$(dirname "$self")"
user="$(basename "$root" | sed 's:^runsvdir-::')"
home="/home/$user"
groups="$(id -Gn "$user" | tr ' ' ':')"
svdir="$home/service"
#
# /etc/sv/runsvdir-USERNAME/finish
#!/usr/bin/env sh
set -eu
self="$(realpath "$0")"
root="$(dirname "$self")"
[ ! -e "$root/conf" ] || . "$root/conf"
sv -w600 force-stop "$svdir/"\*
#
# /etc/sv/runsvdir-USERNAME/run
#!/bin/sh
# start up for user-level service configuration
set -eu
exec 2>&1
root="$(realpath "$0" | xargs -d '\n' dirname)"
[ ! -e "$root/conf" ] || . "$root/conf"
exec chpst -u "$user:$groups" runsvdir -P "$svdir"
#
For clarity, the to command is an xargs alternative that's not out, yet.
OpenSUSE got me onto Linux and was such a great option for a first distro. I still think about changing back sometimes. I'm surprised it doesn't get recommended more often.
openSUSE Tumbleweed is my daily driver. I recommend it to most people. It's a nice balance of leading edge and stability. Plus, snapper makes it easy to rollback if an update borks something.
Slowroll is my daily. I like it because most distros preach some kind of extreme philosophy, like Arch is ultra bare, Ubuntu et al are super easy, others are bleeding edge or slow and stable. openSUSE is (mostly) absolutely middle-of-the-road with a get-the-job-done kind of attitude I guess it makes it somewhat forgettable but I need the OS to just get out of the way and let me use my computer.
Started with Debian and still use it on servers. Moved to Arch but recently put Tumbleweed on my old laptop to try it out. Fast becoming a favourite. Like you said, rolling release with automatic snapshots is the best of both worlds.
SUSE has always kind of been of an also ran in the eyes of a lot of users. I have tried the stable versions before Tumbleweed and I have even used Tumbleweed for a while. It's a solid choice and the user base is awesome.
I really, really, wanted to love SUSE, but there is just something about it that I just don't vibe with. It's a good distro and offers a lot. But it's just a bit uncomfortable like a suit jacket that doesn't quite fit right through the shoulders.
I had a similar experience. Smaller standard repositories, unfamiliar package manager syntax, a package manager that's probably even slower than apt (doesn't matter longterm, but makes learning it more annoying), and I didn't find using the community repositories particularly smooth. Plus I'm always running custom setups with tiling WMs, which is a bad fit for smaller, desktop-focused distros.
Debian is where greybeards go to retire things just work once you configured them and you don't need the helping hand of the AUR as you can just build your own packages with aptbuild.
Shit. I've been on Debian for decades now. Maybe I'm just an old soul... Or I'm just lazy. I don't even configure my DE anymore. The OS install of today will be wiped in no time, so it's not worth being too attached.
Same started on OG Suse from a boxed copy I bought in a store that came with a thick manual but then a year later found Debian and have there ever since.
As a youngblood I have heard of the iron stability of Debian, but simply find it difficult to adopt for gaming-related reasons (both hosting and as a game client).
I do wish to one day study the greybeards' work for a future project box, however. That knowledge needs to be part of my generation as well, for at least a few of us.
The thing about Debian is that it's really not meant for the bleeding edge, not unless you shim a completely different runtime platform onto it, like Docker or Flatpak (or Proxmox). It shines as a very stable very basic host OS that's limited to just the base functions of the machine and lets the other platform deal with the latest and shiniest releases.
Yeah. I've been loving it as a rock solid base for a server. Trying to use it as a desktop though? For basic browsing and such, sure, but once you want to do anything complex and require recent packages it becomes a mess.
Debian, but simply find it difficult to adopt for gaming-related reasons (both hosting and as a game client).
I do remember installing a mesa PPA on Ubuntu to play Elden Ring the year it was released, doing the same or similar on Debian stable seems even more of a mess ... I kinda soured on AAA gaming since, though.
Debian is for my homelab, where things randomly breaking would ruin the day of multiple family members. Arch is for my personal machines, where things randomly breaking is an excuse to learn more about my hobby
haha nah, I use Sawfish WM and a few fbpanel instances, without any compositor. It looks like this for me right now. I've used that basic setup (with various themes) for well over a decade.
KDE and Xfce are what most people use on it, I think...
Ahh yeah, that's the music player I've been working on since the beginning of the year called Aika. It's still pretty early on, but it's mostly usable so far, depending on your needs. I mostly use it as my daily player right now, except for a few odd cases (like Opus files).
Aika is a spiritual successor to my other music player, Benben, which looks very similar, but not exact. Aika has some different features and goals, is much easier to build, and is lighter on system resources. But Benben is much more mature and featured complete. My goal is to release Benben v1.0 by years end, put it in maintenance mode, then focus on Aika.
Not for everything... but I can point you in some directions:
GTK theme: orthogonal2, I think I'm using the "darkCold" one with the "dark-darkCold" color scheme. Read through the docs, it's an interesting customization system.
Sawfish theme (the window decorations): customized version of the built-in "StyleTab" theme. I just picked some colors for the buttons, really. It's StyleTab's "Default" frame and button style, and the "Reduced" color proposals. I believe StyleTab is specific to Sawfish WM.
Font: Orbitron Medium for the window titles, Avenir LT Std Roman elsewhere.
I have no idea. I don't necessarily think it's slop (though it could still be)... I think someone just didn't know how to read Japanese. 'Cause like the sign that's advertising coffee and breakfast stuff is correct, and the sign further back labeled "Collisto" and "ブティッ" (rest is cut off, I suspect it's ブティック) is correct, but the rest are upside down. Though that doesn't explain the upside-down bottle with "Grape Boutique" or whatever on it.
So yeah, fuck if I know, I just found it and kinda liked it for the mood lol
The coffee one is not correct, vertical katakana should have vertical ー, the same mistake is across the rest of the ad, it also says バン instead of パン.
寿司屋 is technically correct, but you'd never see that on a sign, it sounds more like a description of a place rather than an ad sign, if you know what I mean.
中古 is written like 古中 for some reason? The text under (above) it is barely legible, whatever I can make out of it is just random characters somewhat related to 中古, like 品 or 料, but I can't string it together into something that'd make sense.
...
Did what I probably should have done from the very beginning, looks like this is the source and it came to be before slop became common. The person who made this has clearly used something to generate it, the sheer quantity for the timeline is kind of insane, but they were probably using the old tools.
I always come back to Mint. Far from just a “beginner distro”, it’s a practical and solid choice for anyone devoted to something other than tweaking, perfecting, and personalizing an OS. Not that there’s anything wrong with that if it’s your passion and you have the time. Personally, I wouldn’t mind making my perfect Arch or NixOS setup, but my free time is limited and there is always something I’m interested in working on more.
Some hated the GPL, viewing it as less free (which is kind of true depending on who's freedom you care about... personally I care about freedom of users and protecting society from large corporations, but you do you BSD fans).
Some disliked the crappy network stack (the superior UDP performance and IPv6 compliance were much touted at the time... although my own benchmarks didn't confirm the BSD folks beliefs there). It may be hard to imagine with all of the innovation in networking layers that continues in Linux now, but that was the situation 20 or 25 years ago.
Further on networking, some disliked the ipchains/iptables (now nftables I guess) firewalling and whined constantly about how much better pf was. My firewalling needs have always been simple (except for whatever horrors Docker forces on me), so I never understood the rage.
Some complained about the terrible threading model in Linux (back before this was essentially solved in Linux, leaving Linux threading far superior to BSD threading).
Some pointed to the plethora of distributions as inferior to the obviously better model of the OS shipping with a blessed set of tools (think FreeBSD "base" or whatever).
Some bemoaned the lack of "jails" in Linux (essentially a primitive form of containers).
Anyway.
I think basically it was just annoyance that people used Linux instead of their favorite.
The only one i can understand is the complain with distributions tbh
The one about jails is stupid because containers exist and i don't see how GPL gives less freedom, heck, i'd say that BSD is worse because when you contribute to a project, you are now giving free labor to companies...
I've messed around with Dragonfly BSD a bit... it mostly felt familiar to me, and I can potentially see myself using a BSD in the future if I ever needed to jump ship. The multiprocessing and the HAMMER2 filesystem on that one in particular seemed neat. Though obviously I didn't have good GPU support on that particular BSD since I have an nvidia card XD
I did a tour with OpenBSD about 2000-2004. It works just fine, with a much reduced ecosystem of pre built packages, just because of the quantity of devs around.
I saw Dragonfly when it started and I'm glad to hear it's still going. The idea held a lot of promise.
The only real reason to use a BSD is if you use a dedicated system for something like serving files, or some embedded stuff that requires to poke at its innards. As a general purpose machine, it's way, way more limited than Linux. You'll find yourself very constrained by the hardware and some of the software support. But there are lots of nifty toys, so if you have a spare machine and want to play with it, by all means, it's certainly worth your time.
Well, maybe i'm not your average Arch user then.. Don't see the appeal in Nix, honestly, and i'm too lazy to learn. What is GNU Guix? Never heard of it.
It's strange to see someone move from Ubuntu to Arch, like it, and have aspirations of Debian. Ubuntu to Debian is fairly straightforward, didn't you have to do a bunch of shit to get on and learn arch?
I started my Journey on Mint. The Install broke, but I wasn't gonna give up that easily. So I used AI to troubleshoot it (not my best times, but I was desperate). I customized mint, I cherished it and loved my escape from the grasps of Microsoft.
Eventually, I noticed you couldn't do rounded corners on Cinnamon (I didn't understand DEs at the time, thinking you could only use the DE that came with the Distro).
It pissed me off so much that I went and tried something with Plasma. I went with OpenSUSE, in part cuz I liked the Chameleon, in part because I did like the concept. Bluetooth and wifi didn't work ootb and for me as a beginner that sealed the deal, I wasn't able to fix it.
Next, I went to Kubuntu, thinking it'll be stable and have Plasma. And it was. It was all i'd ever hoped for. Stable, many features, super customizable. I even messed around with config files etc (mind you, this was like 3 weeks into my journey). I loved it. Even disabled snaps eventually.
But eventually I got bored. I started trying out other Distros, not hopping but just trying out their live installs. I no longer liked the corporate backend of Canonical. I wanted something new.
I also watched a lot of Linux content at the time, and I was confused and annoyed that I wasn't getting the newest updates to stuff. That's when I really started learning about DEs, Rolling releases etc.
I didn't even really think of Debian as an option at the time, I kept hearing it was old and outdated, which I didn't want.
That's when I fell down the Arch rabbit hole. Cool logo, cool concept, hacker mode.
I wanted that, So, I tried Cachy and Endeavor. No. It wasn't enough. I wanted that Arch logo natively in fastfetch. I wanted to say "I use arch btw". First, I messed around in VMs. from 3pm to 3am, all I did was try and install arch in VMs. Manually, of course. I decided it was the only way to get the experience needed.
I was able to do it eventually. The Step to bare metal was... not as smooth as expected. what the hell is NVMEp02?? And stuff like that. It look a long time until I was done. And it was buggy, I had messed up. Shit didn't work. I decided, well, it works except for weird stuff, strange issues I didn't care to troubleshoot. So I used Archinstall, and no I don't feel guilty, I can still do it manually if I wanted to I was just lazy.
Aaaand here we are. Arch is amazing and fantastic. But Debian Testing is almost as fast in terms of releases and I like the extra stability. Using Cosmic on Arch, actually. I love the tiling functionality. We shall see what the future brings
Ah ok, you wanted something new and to experiment and wanted the most up to date thing without going into "side branches".
I also really understand wanting to use a mainline Linux, I'm prouder of using main vanilla ass Debian since it feels more official and respected to present myself professionally saying "yes, I use Linux, my distro is Debian" instead of "I use mint because I need more handholding" or "I use Nobara/Pika because I am a 420 blaze it gamer".
I did similar stuff to you, if you're interested you can check out my journey. However, during this distro hop I did come more to terms with understanding distros are basically DE + package manager + bundled software, with a few differences and outliers.
Which led me to having the fun situation where I hated MATE, uninstalling it from my Ubuntu mate install, putting on KDE, distro hopping and when I went for Debian net install, repeating the KDE install after being shocked that a bare bones Debian install has no DE.
I did it again for a trashtop that I have, removing LMDE's default DE and installing XFCE because I didn't like... Cinnamon?
Be careful with Debian Testing, it is prioritized last for security patch frequency of the 3 Debian versions. It is possible to daily drive but not really meant for that, and even Arch has more safeguards.
I mean I see the appeal of both. I used arch for a bit then went back to Ubuntu-based actually. Arch is cool and all, but I had some major functionality break a few times. I got tired of tinkering with it. Ubuntu "just works" most of the time. Interested to see what op writes about it too...
I've been a Debian guy for many years and it's unlikely I'll move away in the foreseeable future.
Nix is a package manager and nix-os is an OS built around that package management system.
You can install nix the package manager in debian. I don't use it for installing desktop apps like a browser or office suite, I prefer AppImages for those. However, it's absolutely fantastic for CLI stuff, especially the things you might want as a once off. You can just nix-shell -p <obscure cli tool> and it's just magically there in a new temporary shell, and then cleaned up once you quit that shell. No more adding weird repos to apt, or downloading from github and building, or piping scripts to bash.
There's also home-manager which allows you to define packages and their configurations, and just roll out that state on any machine.
These fancy package management tools (flatpak, AppImage, and nix) have dramatically changed the Debian experience. I used to be forever struggling with the trade off between stability and old versions of things. That's really not the case any more because you don't have to interfere with Debian's conservative methodical ideology around stability in order to install and use all the shiny new things.
favorite: chimera linux <3
currently using: gentoo
least favorite: ubuntu
ever since i tried to apt install firefox and was instead given the snap version without even being asked permission i gave up on ubuntu then and there
I think you can also just uninstall them.... or not.
WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
perl-base
Summary:
Upgrading: 0, Installing: 0, Removing: 112, Not Upgrading: 0
Freed space: 249 MB
Error: Removing essential system-critical packages is not permitted. This might break the system.
IDK. I've done enough with this stuff for a bit.. and I am able to say I tried out DWM to post this after :D
@i_love_FFT@frostlytt you quite literally just uncheck Desktop when installing and check ssh server.
Also if you dont set a root password your user gets sudo. if you do set a root password sudo is not installed
Favorite: Debian Stable (For my uses, it was the least trouble)
First: Slackware (1995, installed from floppy disks, also a short stretch in 2009)
Current: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) (Using because I need to support users on stock Mint)
Distro you liked the least: Novell SuSE (Used in a corporate setting)
Distro you want to use in the future: Unknown
Distro you used for the longest time: Debian Stable (15 years)
Distro everyone likes but I don’t: Ubuntu
Honorable mention: DietPi (RaspberryPi and SBC focused OS)
Over time, I've used quite a lot of different distros: Red Hat, Red Hat Enterprise, Scientific, CENTOS, Fedora, Mandrake, Damn Small, Puppy, CrashBang, Raspbian, Bazzite, to name just the ones I can remember off the top of my head now.
Yes as far as I've found so far, the features track quite well, and I'm really aiming to get proficient with the standard interface. I've found a few minor differences, but I tried stock Mint (which is Ubuntu 20.04 based) for a while, and I didn't want to go backwards from Trixie (the current Stable Debian version) so I opted for LMDE which is based on Trixie. I use Debian Stable because of the "2-year cycle" (that's why it's called stable); Because stock Mint tracks the latest LTS release of Ubuntu, it's actually a fair bit more out of date than Debian at this stage, and the next Mint version, based on the new LTE Ubuntu, isn't slated to come out until December.
So far it's not been too bad for a hybrid system - I have had a couple of issues, but this is most likely attributable to being a hybrid. I've found that I like Cinnamon, which stock Debian does not (as far as I know) support yet - I have used MATE for about 15 years because I don't get on with Gnome 3 or KDE. You get all the nice things about Mint that I found impressive when I tested it - the printer and scanner support is very good, and the configuration utilities are quite reminiscent of Windows ones (good for new users, but I personally don't care). Still not sure if I'm going to stick with it long-term, but happy with it for now - I largely stopped distro-hopping when I switched to MATE.
As per Cinnamon on Debian - I certainly remember installing Cinnamon version of Debian 12 ("Bookworm"), so it does exist, unless it was removed in Trixie. Check the installer options :)
Nice meme! Its interesting that you've tried more than one distro. Personally, I prefer to pick the best one right away and stick with that. I think one of Zote's precepts mentions this. I use mint btw.
Desktop design decisions. A lot of folks hated Unity. I know I did - they turned something familiar into something Apple like and I couldn't stand it. I'm genuinely not a fan of the unified menus and such. It didn't help that users were basically forced out of Gnome 2 into it when Unity became the default.
Within Unity they Integrated Amazon results into the Desktop Search. That was likened to spyware since your queries were being shared with Amazon, much like MS integrating web results into their own search. Ubuntu fucked up harder because, absent any filtering, their search occasionally produced adult products in the results - ie sex toys and such. Imagine telling your kid Fluffy needs a new knotted rope chew toy. They start searching "dog knot toy" just to have the results filled with BadDragon knockoffs.
They've leaned heavier into enterprise over the years and that has alienated a lot of the Desktop audience which helped bring attention to OS in the first place. They went from "Linux for Human Beings," making desktop computing more accessible throughout the world, to becoming essentially the Microsoft of the Linux world.
Their snap backend is proprietary. You can't just host your own snap repository. Even if you host your own local snap cache, it ultimately must point to and retrieve from their repository to populate that cache.
I'm sure there's other stuff worth pointing out that I've forgotten.
The only reason I have ubuntu on my home server is because apparently Pterodactyl Panel is reliant on some aspects of it vs. Mint. It's frustrating that way.
GNOME (by default), Snaps forced on you OOB rather than being an optional thing during setup or in any of the GUI settings, locking newer security updates behind a subscription, and Cannonical just being a bad captain of the ship.
There's a reason why Mint is hailed as the new "casual (non-gaming) user favorite", since it's literally just Ubuntu sans GNOME and the hostile update design decisions.
Snap is why I don't recommend it to anyone. It's super aggressive and responsible for problems (famous example). It also gives Linux a bad impression to new users who still think Ubuntu is a "vanilla" distro. Watching Gamers Nexus struggle with the Steam package is a good example of this, I think. Steve came out ahead of the comments, saying, "I'm sure lots of people know [you need to use the purge flag]." Actually I didn't know that because I avoid hostile distros that constantly fight me.
+1 for Mint. Snapbuntu must be dethroned as the default beginner distro.
Too much corporate control and enshittification. For example, when you use apt-get to get native packages, it can instead download a snap package (which works differently, is controlled by them and might not be preferred for many other reasons), even though you clearly meant not to.
Canonical (Ubuntu's developer) is trying to push people deeper into the ecosystem they build and control.
Then, they roll out a paid Ubuntu version, Ubuntu Pro, separating paying and non-paying customers and turning Ubuntu into a subscription-based SaaS.
It was broken in many subtle ways even before snaps. Version updates were always a bit of a gamble and the whole thing was never as solid as properly managed distributions like the industrial ones such as SuSE or RH (or the properly managed ones that followed).
For me, the main thing i don't like is how the app store defaults to snaps, when the system package you want is hidden behind a drop down.
But i like a lot about it, namely the look and feel of the settings applications, hardware drivers, community support, trouble free updates, so for me it is my favorite.
Because apt is fundamentally broken and it shows most readily on a desktop-oriented distro like Ubuntu.
In order to benefit from packages not included by the distro you need to use 3rd party apt repos, but there's no rule against those repos using package names used by another repo, including the distro's repos. It could've also been fixed by identifying packages by [repo name + package name] instead of just [package name]... but it hasn't.
The result is that when Ubuntu packages get replaced by 3rd party packages by the same name it can mess up the dependency graph if the 3rd party repo isn't super careful about it.
It's not a huge issue immediately after installing something but as time passes and more updates pile on top of each other (from both Ubuntu and the 3rd parties) it can get completely ruined and eventually the update solver can't find an upgrade path anymore and you can't use Ubuntu's newer releases.
At that point you have two options. One is to use an advanced solver like the one in aptitude, for example, but in order to fix the mess it will recommend to uninstall and reinstall a huge number of packages, including very core, essential packages, which is very risky and you lose the 3rd party stuff anyway. At which point you might as well use option two, which is to reinstall a newer Ubuntu release from scratch.
Eventually after you go through this a few times it starts to get really annoying and you either get stuck on an old release out of dread, or you start looking for a distro that can be updated in-place indefinitely.
I believe it's still one of the most used distributions. One of those people still associate with Linux.
For some strange reason it's also widely used in server hosting.
Hate is perhaps too strong of a word, but personally, I just don't care for their default desktop environment. If I had to, I could still use it but as I have lots of choices I'm going with something else.
On the other hand, I find Ubuntu to be a fine server OS, especially if you want something in the Debian family but want something a bit more up to date than what's currently in Debian stable but still widely supported.
Favorite is OpenSuse Tumbleweed. It's stable mostly, and quite fixable when it isn't. Just a great overall balance.
My first was actually DSL: "Damn Small Linux", contained entirely on a CD to remove a TERRIBLY resistant malware from my Windows XP machine. (It was awesome for that! Had no idea what I was doing lol.)
Tried Ubuntu, then Ubuntu Studio, but they didn't like my Wi-Fi devices back in those days, so I didn't get to do much with them!
Used Mint seriously on my aging laptop and loved it. It's such an excellent on-ramp and you can hang out with it as long as you like.
Later tried Manjaro for a while but...it started having some controversial project decisions and just didn't feel like home.
Using EndeavourOS on my gaming laptop and it works great! Considering migrating though: Arch is an excellent teacher, but I've had to spend unexpected weekends fixing weird hitches after updates.
Honorable Mention: Puppy Linux! I used to be able to boot it to any laptop from my Android phone, and that was a really neat trick for public computers and stuff.
Hey I resemble that journey. Very few people metion DSL and Puppy. Those lived on a multiboot flash drive I carry around "JIC" (these days I just bring Mint and Tails).
I just commented elsewhere how Mint became home - that "long as you like" is still going (jeez 8y at this point lol).
Cool! Yeah, they don't seem to be referenced as much anymore, but they were seriously impressive and had their use cases. :D
that "long as you like" is still going (jeez 8y at this point lol).
Yeah, Mint is often referred to by folks as a "beginner distro" implying you'll somehow inevitably skill up and distro hop, and sure, plenty do, but it really doesn't have to be that way!
(Heck, Eliot the super hacker in Mr. Robot used it as his home distro! Lol 😉)
I mean, it's stable, you can still get newer stuff and gaming via FlatPak, and it's just overall friendlier. The community is super helpful and nice too!
I personally jumped to OpenSUSE Tumbleweed because I like having new features sooner. (I blame Blender haha!), and honestly, I didn't expect to fall in love with KDE as much as I did. I really like KDE. :p
I'd always encourage people to try other distros just to see if they do something that fits them better or something, but yeah, you shouldn't feel any pressure to "graduate" from Mint. It's lovely. :D
Favorite is OpenSuse Tumbleweed. It’s stable mostly, and quite fixable when it isn’t. Just a great overall balance.
I am actually thinking that a stable-stable distro like Debian or OpenSuse Leap as a base system, and on top either GNU Guix or a VM with Tumbleweed or Suse Slowroll is a great option. Very stable for productivity, and at the same time very current for programming and exploring new stuff.
I currently use Debian stable, and both Gnu Guix and an Arch VM on top.
Used? Gentoo, Debian, Mepis, sidux, peppermint, mint, fedora, cachyos, puppy, damnsmall, evil entity, suse, opensuse, Slackware, arch, and who knows how many more.
Using right now: Debian, fedora, cachyos, opensuse, Slackware. Different distro depending on need and device.
Favorite? Real soft spot for mepis, it made it easy back in the day. Fedora right now: it always just works, there is nothing to do just update and move on. Also Debian. Because Debian.
Worst: Ubuntu. Such a piece of crap, always breaking since first release.
TBH I have trouble telling why so many people in this thread complain about Ubuntu breaking, it always Just Works™ for me. Did they form their opinion around 2010, or are they using the six-monthly releases? I always used Ubuntu LTS (and never the default desktop).
Started with their first release. So broken compared to everything else at that time.
Now on new releases to this day it still throws weird errors or doesnt work as expected AT INSTALL. Usually reboots will fix some of those issues, sometimes I don't even know if they are real issues, but it just shows Canonical doesnt make a very good product.
Then sooner or later, with Canonical not able to keep an idea longer than 6 months, something else will break. Its just the Ubuntu way.
Seems like their server version is better, I can't really complain about it. I don't have to interact with it much, but it behaves a lot better.
Also, Xbuntu and Kbuntu somehow fared better than Ubuntu, much less problems.
Favorite distro: NixOS
First distro used: Ubuntu
Distro you want to use in the future: SixOS, Asahi
Honorable mention: Fedora Server
Distro you liked the least: Ubuntu
Distro you currently use: Arch, NixOS
The distro you used for the longest time: Arch
First: Manjaro (actually went quite smooth...until it didn't. Still grateful to have it, might not switch if it didn't exist)
Current: Bazzite (immutable distros finally matured enough for me, works perfectly fine for non-gaming tasks as well as gaming)
Distro you liked the least: Ubuntu (was the reason I didn't get to Linux earlier and got only worse from there)
Distro you want to use in the future: Debian (needs to stop being so easily broken, it's a stability distro ffs)
Distro you used for the longest time: Fedora (generally a good experience, but doesn't play fantastically well with nvidia)
Distro everyone likes but I don't: Linux Mint. (Cinnamon is severely limited and looks dated to me, and it broke like a week into me using it. Not my choice, but apparently others have better experience)
Honorable mention: OpenSUSE Tumbleweed (awesome stability and native rollbacks, but didn't fix a much highlighted update breaking nvidia drivers in two months, prompting me to reinstall; didn't ever face breaking issues with other hardware)
I've been on Bazzite for a couple of years now, and I've started to just prefer the way it does things over mutable distros. It's so unbelievably stable.
I went from EndeavourOS to Bazzite, and have no real desire to hop off of it.
Probably not the only distro that could do it, but I was pleasantly surprised bazzite handled my three monitors with three different refresh rates, two different resolutions, one with HDR, and one in portrait mode basically right out of the box.
I was personally amazed that it handles my ancient printer from the get-go. None of the other distros had the driver available, it had to be downloaded and installed separately. Here on Bazzite - complete plug & play.
I really think Ubuntu is the most common first distro people try. A common reoccurrence here is the inability to see what an average person, in terms of tech literacy, knows and are willing to put time and effort into. Ubuntu has been the face of Linux for a long time (obviously not based on people who know and use linux). I wish Mint took that place as it's so much better.
I was gonna say that "and put effort into" is important.
I admin various Linux Servers, been through most distros at work and at home. I'm an experienced Linux admin/user. I'm settled on Mint at home for the foreseeable future.
After a long day/week/career doing IT, the last thing I want is for my primary PC to be a project-home. Mint Cinnamon ended up being the home I fell in love with - honestly was expecting it to be another kitchy distro that I would maybe reccommend for noobs (I mean it is also that). I couldn't be happier - LMDE is the only thing that makes me wonder about greener grass.
I haven't gotten to 95% perfect since Ubuntu pre-unity, and that one very long Arch build I did that one time. Even Debian, the home I grew up in, wasn't the home I wanted to live in forever.
No shade on any other Distros/DEs out there. Everyone has different homes and it's their home and I love that people have them and that they're all different, and I want many options to keep existing. Past me would not understand present me's choices.
Similar situation, experienced professional user but I’m running kubuntu at home. I just posted to another user about not wanting a project pc. I want to use my computer, not fix it or tweak it. It’s not other distributions are bad, it’s that this one is fine for me right now and it’s not windows.
When you surf the oceans of Distros long enough, I think you just get tired and the wanderlust fades. I know I did. Mint is a fine Distro, the Toyota Camry of distros. Solid and dependable with all that you need. It just doesn't look cool to all the hip-cat kids and their bleeding edge Arch.
I have settled on Fedora. And I prefer Plasma over Gnome, so I use Kinonite instead. There is even less hassle and effort that way. I don't even go to the bother of doing updates myself. It all happens in the background. Like you, I just want to use my computer. Not fiddle with it anymore
Did you ever do a major version update (i.e. one that's based on a new Ubuntu LTS release than the one before)? AFAIK they still recommend that you do a fresh install every time the switch the Ubuntu base, which makes me hesitate to recommend it to newcomers - Debian and Ubuntu have always updated in place for me without major issues.
I did use Mint in like 2018, though, it was neat in general.
Funny, Debian is the reason I came to Arch in the first place and never really left. I like Debian, but once you need more recent versions of something, things quickly get messy.
My journey was: Ubuntu, Debian, ChrunchBang, ArchBang, Arch. Not a big fan of distro hopping, so I'll probably stay like this or try Fedora if ever I want something non-rolling again.
First: ubuntu
favorite: nixos
distro I like the least: ubuntu
Distro I currently use: nixos
distro I used for longest time: arch
honorable mention: bazzite/aurora
Distro I want to use in the future: redox with nixos
i'm a recent nixos convert... I think once they improve the ux a bit it's literally the best of all worlds. fantasic idea. UX and documentation issues take a lot of patience though.. a lot.
First: Slackware (there were 2 or 3 distributions at the time... also so many floppies)
Next: Mandrake.
Next: Debian
Next: Ubuntu (and variants, didn't like it, was brittle and messy)
Next: Gentoo (didn't like it much when I did an update after three or four months idle, might be on me)
Next: Manjaro (self immolated at some point just because)
Next: OpenSuSE (soon switched to TumbleWeed, was rock solid, but didn't like one of my new machines for some reason)
Next: Fedora (current, no issues, I'd still prefer a European system, but meh.)
I probably forgot a few, but that's more or less the last thirty years. Unless there's an issue, I see no reason to change. They all pretty much install the same thing anyway, and I want to use the machine, not configure it. The system ought to be as un-noticeable as possible IMO.
I'm always curious about what you all do with your OS 😅 I mean sure why not but for me it was (after 6 months before going for it) like a weekend check out and then my pc became an 'ol Linux box (boxes, laptops etc followed) and it just chugs on?
To be fair, some of these responses are clearly going back 20+ years and only have 8 total "hops". In that time a typical windows user would have gone through 7-10 different versions of windows depending on how lucky they got with stuff like ME and 8...
That seems like a very plausible explanation! I tried mint 16 and didn't do the jump because it was not up to it just yet. Being a linux nerd 10-20 years ago and the differences were probably huge between distros, and they changed all the time too.
I've hopped around a lot when I first got into Linux (mostly to check out different desktops, see what the fuss is about rolling releases, and trying to get a little more performance). Haven't done any of that for about 5 years, I'm actually planning on moving from Ubuntu to Debian because of Canonical's corporate bullshit, but there's just too much annoying work to do to recreate my setup on a new install.
Hey, I have a multiboot system with Debian, too! I wanted to switch to it fully, but I did a LOT of configuration and manual software installs on my old Ubuntu install, some of which was included OOTB by the Ubuntu Studio people (I dabble in electronic music) ... I've been dragging my feet for so long that the Debian install slipped into oldstable ...
Oh, I know that, I've done a lot of Debian upgrades in my time. Just making a point about how long I've had this "switch to Debian on desktop"-project sit idle.
Favorite: Fedora
First Distro Used: Not entirely sure. We had a couple Linux computers growing up that my dad set up and he distro hopped a bit. I used Ubuntu(or variants, e.g. xubuntu) during high school and a bit of college.
Distro You Want to Use in the Future: Bazzite or another immutable distro
Honorable Mention: Manjaro
Distro You Liked the Least: Debian
Distro You Currently Use: Fedora with hyprland(ML4W)
The Distro You Used for the Longest Time: Probably Fedora
When I first saw "Distros i've used:", I thought there's no way I could list that, after my prolific distro-surfing phase between 2004 to about 2014... I don't know how many tall spools of CDs and DVDs I filled with distros, before I switched to usb, trying even more, with even less footprint to gauge it by.
... But, by just simply following the outline provided, I arrive at:
I was torn for which one distro I liked the least.
Considered something rpm based, but then realised all rpm based distros (bar two), I dislike to similar levels, and have thus not used them sufficiently to really say... and they also get lost amidst similar levels of dislike of distros I tried only ever so briefly in my distro-surfings.
Then I realised, the answer was obvious... my "liked the least"'ness has all systemd-imposing distros in a constellation, orders of distance further into "liked the least", more than any other criteria, and all so far out there, they're all as good as the same to my view. Rotten poison. Under an Embrace-Extend-Extinguish op. Centralising, homogenising, imposing, "the one true way" dogma. Beyond just a single point of failure, already compromised from within, agnogenic, dependency-generating, disempowering. and manymorereasons.
So that's how I arrived at [any distro imposing] systemd as my least liked distro.
This should be a stance that makes sense when considering in context that my fave/current and longest used, are bedrock & gentoo. I like choice. And so, any distro that's striven to not facilitate user's freedom to choose, and even striven to make the ability to choose harder, has fallen into that same homogenising "one true way"-dogma gestalt. Obediant copy-pasta distrod can Foxtrot Oscar.
... Could have done a wayland logo there too [or GNOME3, lol]. XD But I have less experience with that. Perhaps (as in the third link of reasons^), I could have used the term "FLOS", but then that would have been more obscure and misleading. ... And [even if interpreted correctly] perhaps a mite more broad than best depicts my "liked the least", throwing a few which I like more, under the bus.
Favourite/Current Distro/Distro I've used the most: Arch btw.
Distro liked the least: Ubuntu
First Distro Used: Corel Linux (I am old lol)
Honourable Mention: Pop!OS with the COSMIC desktop is pretty nice considering how new it is IMO.
Future Distro: I've messed around with NixOS a bit and I kind of want to try it. I like to tinker a lot though so sometimes immutable OS-es kind of interfere with that.
Got into linux on the server side before I seriously looked at the desktop side. Run a mix of Ubuntu, Debian and what used to be CentOS but is now Almalinux in this space.
On the desktop started fiddeling with Ubuntu at first, but first distro I actually used was Mint.
Tested a lot of them over the year, can't bothered to list them.
I made the switch on my main pc (from Windows) to Kubuntu about 2 months ago. A friend had switched about a year before that and said it was fun to use so I tried it and it stuck.
I don’t see myself changing, it works. I don’t want a project, I want a computer I don’t have to think about. I actually enjoy using my pc again, feels like I’m back in early days when my computer did what I wanted it to do. Forgot what that was like. Anyway my upsides are not other distributions downsides, it’s just what I have now.
For context, in industry for 20 years, previous linux admin, dev and eng, I’ve used probably 15 distributions in my years, and I run a home lab server too.
Favorite: NixOS
First Distro Used: Slackware
Distro You Want to Use in the Future: Silverblue, i didn't love redhat after the split off fedora, but I could stand to try another immutable
Honorable Mention: Arch
Distro You Liked the Least: Fedora
Distro You Currently Use: Nixos
The Distro You Used for the Longest Time: Debian
I loved Peppermint OS 10. They did a complete redesign of the DE and it just isn't the same. It's also based on Debian or Devuan now instead of Ubuntu which i'm mostly indifferent to.
Somewhat accurate for me, but I dabbled with Ubuntu, Debian and Alpine for my server so idk if that counts, otherwise my first distro was Arch but the distro I recommend to everyone as their first is Mint+Cinnamon, especially if they're used to Windows
I started with Slackware in 96 then was on a friend's Debian server in like 98. I lost the friend account so I switched to Ubuntu in like... 08 mainly because that's what Digital Ocean offered in its prebuilt stacks, I didn't really have an opinion. Switched to Linux on the desktop only last year, went with Mint since I'd gotten used to Ubuntu. I'm happy, don't feel the need to do anything else really. I have a Steam Deck so obviously I've used SteamOS, not really a fan of the immutable thing.
Tbf, I believe CachyOS has taken the reigns of "Arch based gaming distro that doesn't have immutable OS restrictions", so that'd probably the easiest solution for that.
On the slackware note though, my uncle still uses it (I think it was Puppy last I checked). He was a former chip designer at IBM and Intel, and got on the linux for privacy bandwagon long enough ago to show me the ropes of linux as I was growing up.
My journey started with red hat, then gentoo, a few years back to Microsoft with windows vista, then back to ubuntu, and now arch. And i use raspbian and debian on my servers. Besides the install program and package manager, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between different distros.
Favorite: Debian
First Distro Used: Redhat
Distro You Want to Use in the Future: Debian
Honorable Mention: Linux From Scratch
Distro You Liked the Least: Redhat
Distro You Currently Use: Debian
The Distro You Used for the Longest Time: Debian
213 Comments
schwim@piefed.zip · 154 pts · 41d
I've never seen an infographic for "I use arch, btw." until now.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 38 pts · 41d
oh come on. I don't ever say it outside of meme contexts. I just personally enjoy rolling releases and don't really like the corporate feeling of Fedora, so i'm left with only really Arch as a good option.
schwim@piefed.zip · 30 pts · 41d
Just lighthearted poking, I don't have anything bad to say about anyone's choices. I didn't mean any offense. Sorry if that was its tone.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 41d
No, no don't worry, no offense taken 😅 I should have expected it lol
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 41d
Fedora is corporate? I nearly spat my coffee ;-)
I'm flashing back to working with suse on unitedlinux and the challenges we had. If you want a very Corporate distro, it's right there.
Never again.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 19 pts · 41d
I mean.. fedora is RHEL, which is very corporate
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 40d
Other way around mostly...
Fedora trys stuff first.
Funny that it's not a rolling distro, yet it is often ahead of my cachyos box. It's astounding how fast fedora puts stuff out yet never any effort on my part to manage it. Unlike cachy or even arch.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 39d
I'm getting tired of dispelling this myth, and I don't even use either 🙄
Do people even read? RHEL is downstream from Fedora. They're both forks of Red Hat, but Red Hat ≠ RHEL.
Does this need to be on a billboard or something?
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 39d
Sorry. It's still corporate, since it's coming from red hat. Thanks for telling me though.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 39d
It's not "coming from" Red Hat, Fedora is forked from it originally but is directly downstream from the linux kernel, there's no Red Hat involved between the Linux Foundation and the Fedora devs.
In fact, there's no more Red Hat at all, there's only RHEL, which is downstream from Fedora.
Fedora is not downstream from Red Hat. I don't know how to put that in any plainer terms...
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 39d
I see. Have a nice day. I still won't use Fedora.
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 40d
Fedora is the most corporate not-actually-corporate distro
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 39d
Alma
VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 40d
Or, as honourably mentioned, OpenSuSE, specifically tumbleweed.
cockmushroom@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 36d
Did you even try void?
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 36d
No. I've never understood the point of it
cockmushroom@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 36d
well, if you were serious in your deduction, one point of it is that arch is not your only option.
Pika@hikki.team · 1 pts · 34d
Fair point, and Void is cool in its own right, but there are good reasons it mostly falls under "obscure" distro category.
First is, of course, the systemd-free nature of it. Linux world absolutely needs systemd-free distros, but your average Linux user simply doesn't know how to handle them properly, and the learning curve is somewhat steep. Besides, everyone and everything comes with an assumption you run systemd, so often times, you'll be on your own figuring out the correct fix.
Second is a relatively small userbase. Void, while not being completely unknown, is not by any means a mainstream distro. We have those - some people still run Slackware, for example - but they quickly fall outside the scope of most users due to a relatively underdeveloped community, which is crucial for a Linux project.
This is why Void is often not even seen as an option.
cockmushroom@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 33d
Runit is actually quite simple. If you want a service that your distro packages, you just have to install it and symlink it's directory from (in void's case) /etc/sv/app-or-service to /var/service/app-or-service. Inside that dir you'll find a "run" script and, maybe, a "finish" script that the service manager (sv) will use to initiate and interrupt the service. This is helpful to know if you want to create custom services; i have some for things like brightness, manual tiling, and clipboard management.
Pika@hikki.team · 1 pts · 32d
I see! But there's still much more than service management, not all of it packaged into the "init" part of systemd. And each of these things need to be learned. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just one more big headache on top of what Linux already is.
Also, out of curiosity from someone who barely touched Void - how do you create a custom service? Is writing run and finish scripts sufficient?
cockmushroom@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 31d
Yeah, that's all there is to it. The finish script is optional, and rememer to make your links. You can have user level services by making links for runsvdir-USERNAME. This creates a service that manages your services.
It could probably be more robustn but here's my setup:
For clarity, the
tocommand is an xargs alternative that's not out, yet.Pika@hikki.team · 1 pts · 30d
I see, thanks!
selfmate@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 39d
Opensuse can also be rolling. And that is european!
cRazi_man@europe.pub · 79 pts · 41d
OpenSUSE got me onto Linux and was such a great option for a first distro. I still think about changing back sometimes. I'm surprised it doesn't get recommended more often.
hobbit@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 41d
openSUSE Tumbleweed is my daily driver. I recommend it to most people. It's a nice balance of leading edge and stability. Plus, snapper makes it easy to rollback if an update borks something.
kalpol@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 40d
Same. It is really nice.
twinnie@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 40d
Slowroll is my daily. I like it because most distros preach some kind of extreme philosophy, like Arch is ultra bare, Ubuntu et al are super easy, others are bleeding edge or slow and stable. openSUSE is (mostly) absolutely middle-of-the-road with a get-the-job-done kind of attitude I guess it makes it somewhat forgettable but I need the OS to just get out of the way and let me use my computer.
timmytbt@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 39d
Started with Debian and still use it on servers. Moved to Arch but recently put Tumbleweed on my old laptop to try it out. Fast becoming a favourite. Like you said, rolling release with automatic snapshots is the best of both worlds.
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 40d
SUSE has always kind of been of an also ran in the eyes of a lot of users. I have tried the stable versions before Tumbleweed and I have even used Tumbleweed for a while. It's a solid choice and the user base is awesome.
I really, really, wanted to love SUSE, but there is just something about it that I just don't vibe with. It's a good distro and offers a lot. But it's just a bit uncomfortable like a suit jacket that doesn't quite fit right through the shoulders.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 1 pts · 40d
I had a similar experience. Smaller standard repositories, unfamiliar package manager syntax, a package manager that's probably even slower than apt (doesn't matter longterm, but makes learning it more annoying), and I didn't find using the community repositories particularly smooth. Plus I'm always running custom setups with tiling WMs, which is a bad fit for smaller, desktop-focused distros.
agentTeiko@piefed.social · 56 pts · 41d
Debian is where greybeards go to retire things just work once you configured them and you don't need the helping hand of the AUR as you can just build your own packages with aptbuild.
BartyDeCanter@piefed.social · 32 pts · 41d
Hey! My beard isn’t that… oh, fuck, I guess it is. Where does the time go?
agentTeiko@piefed.social · 18 pts · 41d
I hear you brother 1998 was just yesterday right?
BladeFederation@piefed.social · 9 pts · 40d
I sure am excited for gaming this year. I saw some adverts in a magazine for Half-Life, Ocarina of Time, and Resident Evil 2 and I can't decide.
azimir@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 41d
Shit. I've been on Debian for decades now. Maybe I'm just an old soul... Or I'm just lazy. I don't even configure my DE anymore. The OS install of today will be wiped in no time, so it's not worth being too attached.
khanh@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 40d
Same, on the XFCE/LXQt/MATE desktops
agentTeiko@piefed.social · 4 pts · 41d
Same started on OG Suse from a boxed copy I bought in a store that came with a thick manual but then a year later found Debian and have there ever since.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 40d
As a youngblood I have heard of the iron stability of Debian, but simply find it difficult to adopt for gaming-related reasons (both hosting and as a game client).
I do wish to one day study the greybeards' work for a future project box, however. That knowledge needs to be part of my generation as well, for at least a few of us.
lemmyvore@feddit.nl · 6 pts · 40d
The thing about Debian is that it's really not meant for the bleeding edge, not unless you shim a completely different runtime platform onto it, like Docker or Flatpak (or Proxmox). It shines as a very stable very basic host OS that's limited to just the base functions of the machine and lets the other platform deal with the latest and shiniest releases.
nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de · 1 pts · 40d
Yeah. I've been loving it as a rock solid base for a server. Trying to use it as a desktop though? For basic browsing and such, sure, but once you want to do anything complex and require recent packages it becomes a mess.
pmk@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 40d
Nethack runs fine on my Debian computer.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 1 pts · 40d
I do remember installing a mesa PPA on Ubuntu to play Elden Ring the year it was released, doing the same or similar on Debian stable seems even more of a mess ... I kinda soured on AAA gaming since, though.
muhyb@programming.dev · 7 pts · 40d
I'm not a greybeard ^(yet)^ but
xbps-srcwould like to have a word.Also, Debian is bad for cognitive abilities since if you use it long enough you forget how to configure things. /j
ranzispa@mander.xyz · 5 pts · 40d
Every time I have to upgrade to a new release I have to go read the instructions on how to do it...
I would appreciate a big button like in fedora "push here to upgrade to Debian sailwind"
Carrot@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 40d
Debian is for my homelab, where things randomly breaking would ruin the day of multiple family members. Arch is for my personal machines, where things randomly breaking is an excuse to learn more about my hobby
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 42 pts · 41d
I think I may have a favorite.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 41d
wow... and what DE do you use with Slackware? I assume you just use pure CLI though
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 19 pts · 41d
haha nah, I use Sawfish WM and a few fbpanel instances, without any compositor. It looks like this for me right now. I've used that basic setup (with various themes) for well over a decade.
KDE and Xfce are what most people use on it, I think...
meekah@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 41d
That CLI music player looks nice, I can't find it though. Looks like you made it, did you share it somewhere?
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 5 pts · 40d
Ahh yeah, that's the music player I've been working on since the beginning of the year called Aika. It's still pretty early on, but it's mostly usable so far, depending on your needs. I mostly use it as my daily player right now, except for a few odd cases (like Opus files).
Aika is a spiritual successor to my other music player, Benben, which looks very similar, but not exact. Aika has some different features and goals, is much easier to build, and is lighter on system resources. But Benben is much more mature and featured complete. My goal is to release Benben v1.0 by years end, put it in maintenance mode, then focus on Aika.
zorro@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 41d
Mayhaps this?
https://chiselapp.com/user/MistressRemilia/repository/benben/technote?name=55d45abe77896645681dce2de2dee3aeac349c17
Chronographs@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 41d
It’s this https://fossil.cyberia9.org/aika/index
iamthetot@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 40d
It's just mayhap, fyi.
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 1 pts · 40d
Close! Just the wrong repo link. Check my other comment.
Damage@feddit.it · 2 pts · 39d
Well that a blast from the past
Ziglin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
Do you have dotfiles available somewhere? I do quite like the window decorations and the rest of what I assume to be of the gtk theme.
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 1 pts · 40d
Not for everything... but I can point you in some directions:
rake installso just choose it in the config file.As for the dotfiles I can share, I don't have them in a repo, but I'll put them here:
I think that's everything...
Ziglin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 39d
Thank you! ❤️
TwilightKiddy@programming.dev · 1 pts · 40d
What's up with the text in the wallpaper? I'd think it's slop, but it looks as if someone deliberately made it look borked.
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 1 pts · 40d
I have no idea. I don't necessarily think it's slop (though it could still be)... I think someone just didn't know how to read Japanese. 'Cause like the sign that's advertising coffee and breakfast stuff is correct, and the sign further back labeled "Collisto" and "ブティッ" (rest is cut off, I suspect it's ブティック) is correct, but the rest are upside down. Though that doesn't explain the upside-down bottle with "Grape Boutique" or whatever on it.
So yeah, fuck if I know, I just found it and kinda liked it for the mood lol
TwilightKiddy@programming.dev · 2 pts · 39d
The coffee one is not correct, vertical katakana should have vertical ー, the same mistake is across the rest of the ad, it also says バン instead of パン.
寿司屋 is technically correct, but you'd never see that on a sign, it sounds more like a description of a place rather than an ad sign, if you know what I mean.
中古 is written like 古中 for some reason? The text under (above) it is barely legible, whatever I can make out of it is just random characters somewhat related to 中古, like 品 or 料, but I can't string it together into something that'd make sense.
...
Did what I probably should have done from the very beginning, looks like this is the source and it came to be before slop became common. The person who made this has clearly used something to generate it, the sheer quantity for the timeline is kind of insane, but they were probably using the old tools.
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 1 pts · 39d
Very nice find!
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
twm was good enough for us, we didn't need no stinkin' DE!
CubitOom@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 41d
Slackware was my first distro
redsand@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 40d
Holy shit i did not expect slack
akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 41d
antiX mentioned
TwilightKiddy@programming.dev · 4 pts · 40d
I might have slipped up on my way here, but I'm happy with how it turned out. ::: spoiler image
:::
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 41d
I ditched slackware in 98 after the validation issue became starkly problematic.
SLSA.dev .
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
Slackware brainwashing
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 40d
Ubuntu -> Mint.
I don't know why I'd change, Mint just works. That's all I ever wanted.
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 40d
All I ever wanted. All I ever needed. Heeeere , in my arms.
fleebleneeble@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 39d
Words are very unnecessary
melfie@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 39d
I always come back to Mint. Far from just a “beginner distro”, it’s a practical and solid choice for anyone devoted to something other than tweaking, perfecting, and personalizing an OS. Not that there’s anything wrong with that if it’s your passion and you have the time. Personally, I wouldn’t mind making my perfect Arch or NixOS setup, but my free time is limited and there is always something I’m interested in working on more.
ChristerMLB@piefed.social · 2 pts · 39d
Same, really. I keep trying other distros, and have Kubuntu on my laptop right now, but it's still just a tiny bit too buggy compared to Mint.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 12 pts · 41d
NGL, I really wanna try either free or open bsd
NotEasyBeingGreen@slrpnk.net · 10 pts · 41d
I worked at a company filled with BSD zealots. Their burning hatred for Linux was all-consuming, bad really put me off of the lot.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 1 pts · 39d
Why did they hate Linux?
NotEasyBeingGreen@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 39d
Lots of different reasons.
Some hated the GPL, viewing it as less free (which is kind of true depending on who's freedom you care about... personally I care about freedom of users and protecting society from large corporations, but you do you BSD fans).
Some disliked the crappy network stack (the superior UDP performance and IPv6 compliance were much touted at the time... although my own benchmarks didn't confirm the BSD folks beliefs there). It may be hard to imagine with all of the innovation in networking layers that continues in Linux now, but that was the situation 20 or 25 years ago.
Further on networking, some disliked the ipchains/iptables (now nftables I guess) firewalling and whined constantly about how much better pf was. My firewalling needs have always been simple (except for whatever horrors Docker forces on me), so I never understood the rage.
Some complained about the terrible threading model in Linux (back before this was essentially solved in Linux, leaving Linux threading far superior to BSD threading).
Some pointed to the plethora of distributions as inferior to the obviously better model of the OS shipping with a blessed set of tools (think FreeBSD "base" or whatever).
Some bemoaned the lack of "jails" in Linux (essentially a primitive form of containers).
Anyway.
I think basically it was just annoyance that people used Linux instead of their favorite.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 1 pts · 39d
The only one i can understand is the complain with distributions tbh
The one about jails is stupid because containers exist and i don't see how GPL gives less freedom, heck, i'd say that BSD is worse because when you contribute to a project, you are now giving free labor to companies...
remilia@lemmy.cyberia9.org · 8 pts · 41d
I've messed around with Dragonfly BSD a bit... it mostly felt familiar to me, and I can potentially see myself using a BSD in the future if I ever needed to jump ship. The multiprocessing and the HAMMER2 filesystem on that one in particular seemed neat. Though obviously I didn't have good GPU support on that particular BSD since I have an nvidia card XD
azimir@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 41d
I did a tour with OpenBSD about 2000-2004. It works just fine, with a much reduced ecosystem of pre built packages, just because of the quantity of devs around.
I saw Dragonfly when it started and I'm glad to hear it's still going. The idea held a lot of promise.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
The only real reason to use a BSD is if you use a dedicated system for something like serving files, or some embedded stuff that requires to poke at its innards. As a general purpose machine, it's way, way more limited than Linux. You'll find yourself very constrained by the hardware and some of the software support. But there are lots of nifty toys, so if you have a spare machine and want to play with it, by all means, it's certainly worth your time.
khanh@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 40d
same but the drivers though 😓😓
alecsargent@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 41d
I think that most Arch users that want to move to something stable are considering NixOS or GNU Guix rather than Debian.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 41d
Well, maybe i'm not your average Arch user then.. Don't see the appeal in Nix, honestly, and i'm too lazy to learn. What is GNU Guix? Never heard of it.
I'm kinda tinkering with Debian Sid atm.
404@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 41d
Guix (pronounced "geeks") is like Nix (declarative, functional, atomic) but more Emacs (niche, lispy, Free)
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 41d
It's strange to see someone move from Ubuntu to Arch, like it, and have aspirations of Debian. Ubuntu to Debian is fairly straightforward, didn't you have to do a bunch of shit to get on and learn arch?
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 41d
Do you wanna hear the whole backstory?
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 41d
I'm in Ur thread, reading Ur posts.
Yes I want free entertainment.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 40d
Well, you asked for it.
I started my Journey on Mint. The Install broke, but I wasn't gonna give up that easily. So I used AI to troubleshoot it (not my best times, but I was desperate). I customized mint, I cherished it and loved my escape from the grasps of Microsoft.
Eventually, I noticed you couldn't do rounded corners on Cinnamon (I didn't understand DEs at the time, thinking you could only use the DE that came with the Distro).
It pissed me off so much that I went and tried something with Plasma. I went with OpenSUSE, in part cuz I liked the Chameleon, in part because I did like the concept. Bluetooth and wifi didn't work ootb and for me as a beginner that sealed the deal, I wasn't able to fix it.
Next, I went to Kubuntu, thinking it'll be stable and have Plasma. And it was. It was all i'd ever hoped for. Stable, many features, super customizable. I even messed around with config files etc (mind you, this was like 3 weeks into my journey). I loved it. Even disabled snaps eventually.
But eventually I got bored. I started trying out other Distros, not hopping but just trying out their live installs. I no longer liked the corporate backend of Canonical. I wanted something new.
I also watched a lot of Linux content at the time, and I was confused and annoyed that I wasn't getting the newest updates to stuff. That's when I really started learning about DEs, Rolling releases etc.
I didn't even really think of Debian as an option at the time, I kept hearing it was old and outdated, which I didn't want.
That's when I fell down the Arch rabbit hole. Cool logo, cool concept, hacker mode.
I wanted that, So, I tried Cachy and Endeavor. No. It wasn't enough. I wanted that Arch logo natively in fastfetch. I wanted to say "I use arch btw". First, I messed around in VMs. from 3pm to 3am, all I did was try and install arch in VMs. Manually, of course. I decided it was the only way to get the experience needed.
I was able to do it eventually. The Step to bare metal was... not as smooth as expected. what the hell is NVMEp02?? And stuff like that. It look a long time until I was done. And it was buggy, I had messed up. Shit didn't work. I decided, well, it works except for weird stuff, strange issues I didn't care to troubleshoot. So I used Archinstall, and no I don't feel guilty, I can still do it manually if I wanted to I was just lazy.
Aaaand here we are. Arch is amazing and fantastic. But Debian Testing is almost as fast in terms of releases and I like the extra stability. Using Cosmic on Arch, actually. I love the tiling functionality. We shall see what the future brings
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
Ah ok, you wanted something new and to experiment and wanted the most up to date thing without going into "side branches".
I also really understand wanting to use a mainline Linux, I'm prouder of using main vanilla ass Debian since it feels more official and respected to present myself professionally saying "yes, I use Linux, my distro is Debian" instead of "I use mint because I need more handholding" or "I use Nobara/Pika because I am a 420 blaze it gamer".
I did similar stuff to you, if you're interested you can check out my journey. However, during this distro hop I did come more to terms with understanding distros are basically DE + package manager + bundled software, with a few differences and outliers.
Which led me to having the fun situation where I hated MATE, uninstalling it from my Ubuntu mate install, putting on KDE, distro hopping and when I went for Debian net install, repeating the KDE install after being shocked that a bare bones Debian install has no DE.
I did it again for a trashtop that I have, removing LMDE's default DE and installing XFCE because I didn't like... Cinnamon?
BladeFederation@piefed.social · 2 pts · 40d
Be careful with Debian Testing, it is prioritized last for security patch frequency of the 3 Debian versions. It is possible to daily drive but not really meant for that, and even Arch has more safeguards.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 40d
idk, is it really that bad? I've heard of many people using debian sid for daily
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
I mean I see the appeal of both. I used arch for a bit then went back to Ubuntu-based actually. Arch is cool and all, but I had some major functionality break a few times. I got tired of tinkering with it. Ubuntu "just works" most of the time. Interested to see what op writes about it too...
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
Have you thought about trying Mint, specifically LMDE?
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 40d
Nah, not really. Pop_OS has been my favorite so far. Been on it about 5 years now.
fizzle@quokk.au · 5 pts · 41d
I've been a Debian guy for many years and it's unlikely I'll move away in the foreseeable future.
Nix is a package manager and nix-os is an OS built around that package management system.
You can install nix the package manager in debian. I don't use it for installing desktop apps like a browser or office suite, I prefer AppImages for those. However, it's absolutely fantastic for CLI stuff, especially the things you might want as a once off. You can just
nix-shell -p <obscure cli tool>and it's just magically there in a new temporary shell, and then cleaned up once you quit that shell. No more adding weird repos to apt, or downloading from github and building, or piping scripts to bash.There's also home-manager which allows you to define packages and their configurations, and just roll out that state on any machine.
These fancy package management tools (flatpak, AppImage, and nix) have dramatically changed the Debian experience. I used to be forever struggling with the trade off between stability and old versions of things. That's really not the case any more because you don't have to interfere with Debian's conservative methodical ideology around stability in order to install and use all the shiny new things.
clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 41d
That sounds like a good compromise. I am really enjoying NixOs, but I miss the simplicity of Debian. I'll think about your method.
You just installed Nix from APT, I assume, but are you still rebuilding a config.nix every time you make a "permanent" change?
Agreed on nix-shell -p, that's extremely handy.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
🤯❤️
fizzle@quokk.au · 2 pts · 40d
Yeah so "cleaned up" wasn't completely true.
Nix basically works by installing packages in a store or cache, and then soft linking to the binaries in the cache.
When you exit the temporary shell, the link will no longer exist but the cached package and its dependencies are still there.
You can easily clear that cache but it's not gone instantly when you exit the shell.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
That's actually what I figured/hoped. As long as they're making an effort to keep that secure, sounds like a good approach to me!
404@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 41d
Either that or Void
redsand@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 40d
Gentoo is how you upgrade from here
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
Im a long standing debian user and i just recently installed arch in a separated disk mainly for gaming. I like arch, but debian is just beautiful.
trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 41d
Been considering giving Guix a spin as an alternative to Debian, I'm use to freebsd but would like something non systemd linuxish
imjustmsk@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 39d
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 39d
arch btw
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 41d
I use linux by the way.
frostlytt@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 40d
favorite: chimera linux <3 currently using: gentoo least favorite: ubuntu
ever since i tried to apt install firefox and was instead given the snap version without even being asked permission i gave up on ubuntu then and there
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 40d
Ever since snap arrived, I switched to Debian.
The only thing I dislike about Debian is that there is no "server/headless install image" available, so it's not a big deal.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 39d
I'm spinning up a vm right now just for you, but I think the netinstall allows bare, DE less
https://imgur.com/a/3OWiULh
https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
EDIT : I did a dump of the 200+ packages it has, but IDK how to get it out of there... oh wait.
EDIT 2 :
::: spoiler spoiler
:::
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 39d
@i_love_FFT@jlai.lu
I modified my reply, here's the rest of the packages.
::: spoiler spoiler
:::
I think you can also just uninstall them.... or not.
IDK. I've done enough with this stuff for a bit.. and I am able to say I tried out DWM to post this after :D
notsle@kzoo.to · 0 pts · 40d
@i_love_FFT @frostlytt you quite literally just uncheck Desktop when installing and check ssh server.
Also if you dont set a root password your user gets sudo. if you do set a root password sudo is not installed
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 39d
That's probably like when I look for my cellphone and don't notice it's on my hands...
A few weeks ago I installed Debian on my old computer and i swear I couldn't find these options!
cybervegan@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 40d
Favorite: Debian Stable (For my uses, it was the least trouble)
First: Slackware (1995, installed from floppy disks, also a short stretch in 2009)
Current: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) (Using because I need to support users on stock Mint)
Distro you liked the least: Novell SuSE (Used in a corporate setting)
Distro you want to use in the future: Unknown
Distro you used for the longest time: Debian Stable (15 years)
Distro everyone likes but I don’t: Ubuntu
Honorable mention: DietPi (RaspberryPi and SBC focused OS)
Over time, I've used quite a lot of different distros: Red Hat, Red Hat Enterprise, Scientific, CENTOS, Fedora, Mandrake, Damn Small, Puppy, CrashBang, Raspbian, Bazzite, to name just the ones I can remember off the top of my head now.
Allero@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 39d
Are LMDE and stock Mint close enough in versions and features that you can always efficiently support stock Mint users?
Also, is the base Mint software updated regularly, or does it depend on the Debian 2-year cycle?
cybervegan@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 33d
Yes as far as I've found so far, the features track quite well, and I'm really aiming to get proficient with the standard interface. I've found a few minor differences, but I tried stock Mint (which is Ubuntu 20.04 based) for a while, and I didn't want to go backwards from Trixie (the current Stable Debian version) so I opted for LMDE which is based on Trixie. I use Debian Stable because of the "2-year cycle" (that's why it's called stable); Because stock Mint tracks the latest LTS release of Ubuntu, it's actually a fair bit more out of date than Debian at this stage, and the next Mint version, based on the new LTE Ubuntu, isn't slated to come out until December.
So far it's not been too bad for a hybrid system - I have had a couple of issues, but this is most likely attributable to being a hybrid. I've found that I like Cinnamon, which stock Debian does not (as far as I know) support yet - I have used MATE for about 15 years because I don't get on with Gnome 3 or KDE. You get all the nice things about Mint that I found impressive when I tested it - the printer and scanner support is very good, and the configuration utilities are quite reminiscent of Windows ones (good for new users, but I personally don't care). Still not sure if I'm going to stick with it long-term, but happy with it for now - I largely stopped distro-hopping when I switched to MATE.
Allero@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 33d
Thanks for sharing!
As per Cinnamon on Debian - I certainly remember installing Cinnamon version of Debian 12 ("Bookworm"), so it does exist, unless it was removed in Trixie. Check the installer options :)
Sidhean@piefed.social · 8 pts · 39d
Nice meme! Its interesting that you've tried more than one distro. Personally, I prefer to pick the best one right away and stick with that. I think one of Zote's precepts mentions this. I use mint btw.
/jerk
pivot_root@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 41d
Ubuntu seems universally hated. Why?
__hetz@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 41d
Desktop design decisions. A lot of folks hated Unity. I know I did - they turned something familiar into something Apple like and I couldn't stand it. I'm genuinely not a fan of the unified menus and such. It didn't help that users were basically forced out of Gnome 2 into it when Unity became the default.
Within Unity they Integrated Amazon results into the Desktop Search. That was likened to spyware since your queries were being shared with Amazon, much like MS integrating web results into their own search. Ubuntu fucked up harder because, absent any filtering, their search occasionally produced adult products in the results - ie sex toys and such. Imagine telling your kid Fluffy needs a new knotted rope chew toy. They start searching "dog knot toy" just to have the results filled with BadDragon knockoffs.
They've leaned heavier into enterprise over the years and that has alienated a lot of the Desktop audience which helped bring attention to OS in the first place. They went from "Linux for Human Beings," making desktop computing more accessible throughout the world, to becoming essentially the Microsoft of the Linux world.
Their snap backend is proprietary. You can't just host your own snap repository. Even if you host your own local snap cache, it ultimately must point to and retrieve from their repository to populate that cache.
I'm sure there's other stuff worth pointing out that I've forgotten.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 40d
The only reason I have ubuntu on my home server is because apparently Pterodactyl Panel is reliant on some aspects of it vs. Mint. It's frustrating that way.
chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 40d
Their documentation says Debian is supported.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 40d
GNOME (by default), Snaps forced on you OOB rather than being an optional thing during setup or in any of the GUI settings, locking newer security updates behind a subscription, and Cannonical just being a bad captain of the ship.
There's a reason why Mint is hailed as the new "casual (non-gaming) user favorite", since it's literally just Ubuntu sans GNOME and the hostile update design decisions.
CoryCoolguy@lemmy.myserv.one · 4 pts · 40d
Snap is why I don't recommend it to anyone. It's super aggressive and responsible for problems (famous example). It also gives Linux a bad impression to new users who still think Ubuntu is a "vanilla" distro. Watching Gamers Nexus struggle with the Steam package is a good example of this, I think. Steve came out ahead of the comments, saying, "I'm sure lots of people know [you need to use the purge flag]." Actually I didn't know that because I avoid hostile distros that constantly fight me.
+1 for Mint. Snapbuntu must be dethroned as the default beginner distro.
Allero@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 40d
Too much corporate control and enshittification. For example, when you use apt-get to get native packages, it can instead download a snap package (which works differently, is controlled by them and might not be preferred for many other reasons), even though you clearly meant not to.
Canonical (Ubuntu's developer) is trying to push people deeper into the ecosystem they build and control.
Then, they roll out a paid Ubuntu version, Ubuntu Pro, separating paying and non-paying customers and turning Ubuntu into a subscription-based SaaS.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
It was broken in many subtle ways even before snaps. Version updates were always a bit of a gamble and the whole thing was never as solid as properly managed distributions like the industrial ones such as SuSE or RH (or the properly managed ones that followed).
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 41d
I don't hate it, it's just so far the worst one i've used. It's not necessarily bad, I have friends who use it.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 40d
What were the worst aspects for you?
For me, the main thing i don't like is how the app store defaults to snaps, when the system package you want is hidden behind a drop down.
But i like a lot about it, namely the look and feel of the settings applications, hardware drivers, community support, trouble free updates, so for me it is my favorite.
lemmyvore@feddit.nl · 4 pts · 40d
Because apt is fundamentally broken and it shows most readily on a desktop-oriented distro like Ubuntu.
In order to benefit from packages not included by the distro you need to use 3rd party apt repos, but there's no rule against those repos using package names used by another repo, including the distro's repos. It could've also been fixed by identifying packages by [repo name + package name] instead of just [package name]... but it hasn't.
The result is that when Ubuntu packages get replaced by 3rd party packages by the same name it can mess up the dependency graph if the 3rd party repo isn't super careful about it.
It's not a huge issue immediately after installing something but as time passes and more updates pile on top of each other (from both Ubuntu and the 3rd parties) it can get completely ruined and eventually the update solver can't find an upgrade path anymore and you can't use Ubuntu's newer releases.
At that point you have two options. One is to use an advanced solver like the one in
aptitude, for example, but in order to fix the mess it will recommend to uninstall and reinstall a huge number of packages, including very core, essential packages, which is very risky and you lose the 3rd party stuff anyway. At which point you might as well use option two, which is to reinstall a newer Ubuntu release from scratch.Eventually after you go through this a few times it starts to get really annoying and you either get stuck on an old release out of dread, or you start looking for a distro that can be updated in-place indefinitely.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 40d
Widely and loudly hated, but not universal. The fans just aren't that loud ;)
ranzispa@mander.xyz · 4 pts · 40d
I believe it's still one of the most used distributions. One of those people still associate with Linux. For some strange reason it's also widely used in server hosting.
toddestan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 40d
Hate is perhaps too strong of a word, but personally, I just don't care for their default desktop environment. If I had to, I could still use it but as I have lots of choices I'm going with something else.
On the other hand, I find Ubuntu to be a fine server OS, especially if you want something in the Debian family but want something a bit more up to date than what's currently in Debian stable but still widely supported.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 39d
Favorite is OpenSuse Tumbleweed. It's stable mostly, and quite fixable when it isn't. Just a great overall balance.
My first was actually DSL: "Damn Small Linux", contained entirely on a CD to remove a TERRIBLY resistant malware from my Windows XP machine. (It was awesome for that! Had no idea what I was doing lol.)
Tried Ubuntu, then Ubuntu Studio, but they didn't like my Wi-Fi devices back in those days, so I didn't get to do much with them!
Used Mint seriously on my aging laptop and loved it. It's such an excellent on-ramp and you can hang out with it as long as you like.
Later tried Manjaro for a while but...it started having some controversial project decisions and just didn't feel like home.
Using EndeavourOS on my gaming laptop and it works great! Considering migrating though: Arch is an excellent teacher, but I've had to spend unexpected weekends fixing weird hitches after updates.
Honorable Mention: Puppy Linux! I used to be able to boot it to any laptop from my Android phone, and that was a really neat trick for public computers and stuff.
recursivethinking@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 39d
Hey I resemble that journey. Very few people metion DSL and Puppy. Those lived on a multiboot flash drive I carry around "JIC" (these days I just bring Mint and Tails).
I just commented elsewhere how Mint became home - that "long as you like" is still going (jeez 8y at this point lol).
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 39d
Cool! Yeah, they don't seem to be referenced as much anymore, but they were seriously impressive and had their use cases. :D
Yeah, Mint is often referred to by folks as a "beginner distro" implying you'll somehow inevitably skill up and distro hop, and sure, plenty do, but it really doesn't have to be that way!
(Heck, Eliot the super hacker in Mr. Robot used it as his home distro! Lol 😉)
I mean, it's stable, you can still get newer stuff and gaming via FlatPak, and it's just overall friendlier. The community is super helpful and nice too!
I personally jumped to OpenSUSE Tumbleweed because I like having new features sooner. (I blame Blender haha!), and honestly, I didn't expect to fall in love with KDE as much as I did. I really like KDE. :p
I'd always encourage people to try other distros just to see if they do something that fits them better or something, but yeah, you shouldn't feel any pressure to "graduate" from Mint. It's lovely. :D
HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org · 2 pts · 39d
I am actually thinking that a stable-stable distro like Debian or OpenSuse Leap as a base system, and on top either GNU Guix or a VM with Tumbleweed or Suse Slowroll is a great option. Very stable for productivity, and at the same time very current for programming and exploring new stuff.
I currently use Debian stable, and both Gnu Guix and an Arch VM on top.
db2@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 41d
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 40d
First? Redhat.
Used? Gentoo, Debian, Mepis, sidux, peppermint, mint, fedora, cachyos, puppy, damnsmall, evil entity, suse, opensuse, Slackware, arch, and who knows how many more.
Using right now: Debian, fedora, cachyos, opensuse, Slackware. Different distro depending on need and device.
Favorite? Real soft spot for mepis, it made it easy back in the day. Fedora right now: it always just works, there is nothing to do just update and move on. Also Debian. Because Debian.
Worst: Ubuntu. Such a piece of crap, always breaking since first release.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 7 pts · 40d
TBH I have trouble telling why so many people in this thread complain about Ubuntu breaking, it always Just Works™ for me. Did they form their opinion around 2010, or are they using the six-monthly releases? I always used Ubuntu LTS (and never the default desktop).
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 40d
Started with their first release. So broken compared to everything else at that time.
Now on new releases to this day it still throws weird errors or doesnt work as expected AT INSTALL. Usually reboots will fix some of those issues, sometimes I don't even know if they are real issues, but it just shows Canonical doesnt make a very good product.
Then sooner or later, with Canonical not able to keep an idea longer than 6 months, something else will break. Its just the Ubuntu way.
Seems like their server version is better, I can't really complain about it. I don't have to interact with it much, but it behaves a lot better.
Also, Xbuntu and Kbuntu somehow fared better than Ubuntu, much less problems.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 40d
People are/were actually using the default Ubuntu desktop, and modern Gnome in general? In a fediverse linuxmemes community?
Granted, it still doesn't speak well for them if their default desktop has so many issues that don't exist on the flavors.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 40d
lol.
All my complaining about Ubuntu and yet I kind of liked Unity. I had it on a guest computer and a laptop for awhile.
I actually liked the orange colors. I liked the fonts. I even liked early unity as an alternative to gnome back then.
But it just kept changing!
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 3 pts · 40d
It did have some design wins, I still use Ubuntu mono as my standard terminal font (this includes my Debian systems).
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
Pop! OS does it better.
moonlight@fedia.io · 6 pts · 41d
Favorite distro: NixOS First distro used: Ubuntu Distro you want to use in the future: SixOS, Asahi Honorable mention: Fedora Server Distro you liked the least: Ubuntu Distro you currently use: Arch, NixOS The distro you used for the longest time: Arch
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 39d
Kubuntu FTW !
Allero@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 40d
Favorite: still searching
First: Manjaro (actually went quite smooth...until it didn't. Still grateful to have it, might not switch if it didn't exist)
Current: Bazzite (immutable distros finally matured enough for me, works perfectly fine for non-gaming tasks as well as gaming)
Distro you liked the least: Ubuntu (was the reason I didn't get to Linux earlier and got only worse from there)
Distro you want to use in the future: Debian (needs to stop being so easily broken, it's a stability distro ffs)
Distro you used for the longest time: Fedora (generally a good experience, but doesn't play fantastically well with nvidia)
Distro everyone likes but I don't: Linux Mint. (Cinnamon is severely limited and looks dated to me, and it broke like a week into me using it. Not my choice, but apparently others have better experience)
Honorable mention: OpenSUSE Tumbleweed (awesome stability and native rollbacks, but didn't fix a much highlighted update breaking nvidia drivers in two months, prompting me to reinstall; didn't ever face breaking issues with other hardware)
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 40d
I've been on Bazzite for a couple of years now, and I've started to just prefer the way it does things over mutable distros. It's so unbelievably stable.
I went from EndeavourOS to Bazzite, and have no real desire to hop off of it.
malformed3955@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
Probably not the only distro that could do it, but I was pleasantly surprised bazzite handled my three monitors with three different refresh rates, two different resolutions, one with HDR, and one in portrait mode basically right out of the box.
Allero@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 40d
I was personally amazed that it handles my ancient printer from the get-go. None of the other distros had the driver available, it had to be downloaded and installed separately. Here on Bazzite - complete plug & play.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 40d
Yeah, it'll do that
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 40d
I love Ubuntu currently but I'm planning on switching. I just love the feel of it.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 39d
I feel it. As a distro itself I'm not a huge fan of how it does things, but I really do like their theming, colors, font, aesthetic, logo, all that.
Thankfully easy enough to make any distro look like anything, with a little effort. :)
M137@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 39d
I really think Ubuntu is the most common first distro people try. A common reoccurrence here is the inability to see what an average person, in terms of tech literacy, knows and are willing to put time and effort into. Ubuntu has been the face of Linux for a long time (obviously not based on people who know and use linux). I wish Mint took that place as it's so much better.
recursivethinking@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 39d
I was gonna say that "and put effort into" is important.
I admin various Linux Servers, been through most distros at work and at home. I'm an experienced Linux admin/user. I'm settled on Mint at home for the foreseeable future.
After a long day/week/career doing IT, the last thing I want is for my primary PC to be a project-home. Mint Cinnamon ended up being the home I fell in love with - honestly was expecting it to be another kitchy distro that I would maybe reccommend for noobs (I mean it is also that). I couldn't be happier - LMDE is the only thing that makes me wonder about greener grass.
I haven't gotten to 95% perfect since Ubuntu pre-unity, and that one very long Arch build I did that one time. Even Debian, the home I grew up in, wasn't the home I wanted to live in forever.
No shade on any other Distros/DEs out there. Everyone has different homes and it's their home and I love that people have them and that they're all different, and I want many options to keep existing. Past me would not understand present me's choices.
Q_the_misanthrope@startrek.website · 2 pts · 39d
Similar situation, experienced professional user but I’m running kubuntu at home. I just posted to another user about not wanting a project pc. I want to use my computer, not fix it or tweak it. It’s not other distributions are bad, it’s that this one is fine for me right now and it’s not windows.
laceybeach@piefed.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 40d
Over 20 years I've been trying many distros and even rolled my own and now I'm a happy mint user.
Did I do it backwards?
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 40d
When you surf the oceans of Distros long enough, I think you just get tired and the wanderlust fades. I know I did. Mint is a fine Distro, the Toyota Camry of distros. Solid and dependable with all that you need. It just doesn't look cool to all the hip-cat kids and their bleeding edge Arch.
I have settled on Fedora. And I prefer Plasma over Gnome, so I use Kinonite instead. There is even less hassle and effort that way. I don't even go to the bother of doing updates myself. It all happens in the background. Like you, I just want to use my computer. Not fiddle with it anymore
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 3 pts · 40d
Did you ever do a major version update (i.e. one that's based on a new Ubuntu LTS release than the one before)? AFAIK they still recommend that you do a fresh install every time the switch the Ubuntu base, which makes me hesitate to recommend it to newcomers - Debian and Ubuntu have always updated in place for me without major issues.
I did use Mint in like 2018, though, it was neat in general.
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 40d
Funny, Debian is the reason I came to Arch in the first place and never really left. I like Debian, but once you need more recent versions of something, things quickly get messy.
My journey was: Ubuntu, Debian, ChrunchBang, ArchBang, Arch. Not a big fan of distro hopping, so I'll probably stay like this or try Fedora if ever I want something non-rolling again.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 3 pts · 40d
Loved Crunchbang! Bunsenlabs is a neat successor, too.
communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz · 5 pts · 40d
First: ubuntu favorite: nixos distro I like the least: ubuntu Distro I currently use: nixos distro I used for longest time: arch honorable mention: bazzite/aurora Distro I want to use in the future: redox with nixos
i'm a recent nixos convert... I think once they improve the ux a bit it's literally the best of all worlds. fantasic idea. UX and documentation issues take a lot of patience though.. a lot.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 40d
First: Slackware (there were 2 or 3 distributions at the time... also so many floppies)
Next: Mandrake.
Next: Debian
Next: Ubuntu (and variants, didn't like it, was brittle and messy)
Next: Gentoo (didn't like it much when I did an update after three or four months idle, might be on me)
Next: Manjaro (self immolated at some point just because)
Next: OpenSuSE (soon switched to TumbleWeed, was rock solid, but didn't like one of my new machines for some reason)
Next: Fedora (current, no issues, I'd still prefer a European system, but meh.)
I probably forgot a few, but that's more or less the last thirty years. Unless there's an issue, I see no reason to change. They all pretty much install the same thing anyway, and I want to use the machine, not configure it. The system ought to be as un-noticeable as possible IMO.
RaccoonBall@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 40d
Same, but I like ubuntu and stopped at gentoo
eleefece@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 39d
Favorite: MX Linux
First Distro Used: Ubuntu 6.06
Distro You Want to Use in the Future: CachyOS
Honorable Mention: Pardus
Distro You Liked the Least: Mandriva
Distro You Currently Use: Bazzite
The Distro You Used for the Longest Time: Opensuse
ober@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 40d
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 40d
I'm always curious about what you all do with your OS 😅 I mean sure why not but for me it was (after 6 months before going for it) like a weekend check out and then my pc became an 'ol Linux box (boxes, laptops etc followed) and it just chugs on?
kolmaskommentoija@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 40d
Crozekiel@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 40d
To be fair, some of these responses are clearly going back 20+ years and only have 8 total "hops". In that time a typical windows user would have gone through 7-10 different versions of windows depending on how lucky they got with stuff like ME and 8...
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 40d
That seems like a very plausible explanation! I tried mint 16 and didn't do the jump because it was not up to it just yet. Being a linux nerd 10-20 years ago and the differences were probably huge between distros, and they changed all the time too.
Smart thinking!
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 40d
I've hopped around a lot when I first got into Linux (mostly to check out different desktops, see what the fuss is about rolling releases, and trying to get a little more performance). Haven't done any of that for about 5 years, I'm actually planning on moving from Ubuntu to Debian because of Canonical's corporate bullshit, but there's just too much annoying work to do to recreate my setup on a new install.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 4 pts · 41d
What, only one distro at a time? Arch on desktop is one thing, but Arch on servers is quite another ...
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 41d
Currently triple booting Windows (very rarely for gaming)/Arch (Main system)/Debian (fun)
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 1 pts · 40d
Hey, I have a multiboot system with Debian, too! I wanted to switch to it fully, but I did a LOT of configuration and manual software installs on my old Ubuntu install, some of which was included OOTB by the Ubuntu Studio people (I dabble in electronic music) ... I've been dragging my feet for so long that the Debian install slipped into oldstable ...
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 40d
it's not that hart to upgrade, just change the sources list and run apt dist-upgrade
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 1 pts · 40d
Oh, I know that, I've done a lot of Debian upgrades in my time. Just making a point about how long I've had this "switch to Debian on desktop"-project sit idle.
jeff@programming.dev · 2 pts · 39d
Digit@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 39d
When I first saw "Distros i've used:", I thought there's no way I could list that, after my prolific distro-surfing phase between 2004 to about 2014... I don't know how many tall spools of CDs and DVDs I filled with distros, before I switched to usb, trying even more, with even less footprint to gauge it by.
... But, by just simply following the outline provided, I arrive at:
:)
That was fun.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 39d
uh... since when is SystemD a distro?
Digit@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 38d
Fair query.
I was torn for which one distro I liked the least.
Considered something rpm based, but then realised all rpm based distros (bar two), I dislike to similar levels, and have thus not used them sufficiently to really say... and they also get lost amidst similar levels of dislike of distros I tried only ever so briefly in my distro-surfings.
Then I realised, the answer was obvious... my "liked the least"'ness has all systemd-imposing distros in a constellation, orders of distance further into "liked the least", more than any other criteria, and all so far out there, they're all as good as the same to my view. Rotten poison. Under an Embrace-Extend-Extinguish op. Centralising, homogenising, imposing, "the one true way" dogma. Beyond just a single point of failure, already compromised from within, agnogenic, dependency-generating, disempowering. and many more reasons.
So that's how I arrived at [any distro imposing] systemd as my least liked distro.
This should be a stance that makes sense when considering in context that my fave/current and longest used, are bedrock & gentoo. I like choice. And so, any distro that's striven to not facilitate user's freedom to choose, and even striven to make the ability to choose harder, has fallen into that same homogenising "one true way"-dogma gestalt. Obediant copy-pasta distrod can Foxtrot Oscar.
... Could have done a wayland logo there too [or GNOME3, lol]. XD But I have less experience with that. Perhaps (as in the third link of reasons^), I could have used the term "FLOS", but then that would have been more obscure and misleading. ... And [even if interpreted correctly] perhaps a mite more broad than best depicts my "liked the least", throwing a few which I like more, under the bus.
Anyhoo...
Reasoning elaboration [for my latteral-thinking lazy-cheat cop-out gestalt criteria choice] aside,
The distro I want to use in the future's far more interesting...
Johanno@feddit.org · 2 pts · 40d
Where is nixos my old friend?
CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 40d
Favourite/Current Distro/Distro I've used the most: Arch btw.
Distro liked the least: Ubuntu
First Distro Used: Corel Linux (I am old lol)
Honourable Mention: Pop!OS with the COSMIC desktop is pretty nice considering how new it is IMO.
Future Distro: I've messed around with NixOS a bit and I kind of want to try it. I like to tinker a lot though so sometimes immutable OS-es kind of interfere with that.
kevinsky@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 39d
Got into linux on the server side before I seriously looked at the desktop side. Run a mix of Ubuntu, Debian and what used to be CentOS but is now Almalinux in this space.
On the desktop started fiddeling with Ubuntu at first, but first distro I actually used was Mint. Tested a lot of them over the year, can't bothered to list them.
Mainly just use Fedora (KDE).
fleebleneeble@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 39d
Fav distro: CachyOS
First distro used: Xubuntu
Distro I want to use in the future: BlendOS, seems cool. Though it's not Linux, I am interested in BSD.
Distro I liked least: toss between Debian and NixOS.
Distro used the longest: Arch variants, starting with Garuda for gaming.
Honorable mention: Ubuntu Studio (had to use it for some projects and I loved having all that I needed right away).
Current use: CachyOS for gaming, Fedora Kinoite for media servers, standard Fedora for small laptop.
All in all, I love Arch based distros, but I like to be well rounded. I've tried more than what I've mentioned, these are just what is relevant.
Bronzor@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 39d
I've been seeing a lot of kbuntu on these images, what makes it so appealing to people besides kde instead of gnome?
Q_the_misanthrope@startrek.website · 4 pts · 39d
I made the switch on my main pc (from Windows) to Kubuntu about 2 months ago. A friend had switched about a year before that and said it was fun to use so I tried it and it stuck.
I don’t see myself changing, it works. I don’t want a project, I want a computer I don’t have to think about. I actually enjoy using my pc again, feels like I’m back in early days when my computer did what I wanted it to do. Forgot what that was like. Anyway my upsides are not other distributions downsides, it’s just what I have now.
For context, in industry for 20 years, previous linux admin, dev and eng, I’ve used probably 15 distributions in my years, and I run a home lab server too.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 39d
It's stable and reliable.
Anti_Iridium@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 39d
Exactly that.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 1 pts · 39d
The desktop environment is the only difference between Ubuntu and most of its flavors.
blackjam_alex@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
God himself was disappointed with your comment.
joranm1@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 40d
The first distro I used was SuSE (yes, before there was "Open" in the name 😅) on a Pentium III
I spent many years on Arch, but it don't think it's the distro I used the most any longer...
The distro I am using now is Fedora Workstation, which has been my daily driver for a dozen years now, and it's also my favorite distro.
The distro I'll be using in the future may be Silverblue
The distro I hate the most... is Ubuntu 😆 I had so many troubles over the years with this one, there was always something nonfunctional
My honorable mention: CachyOS looks pretty nice 😉
As for all the distros I tried... there's way too many 😅
onipa@feddit.org · 2 pts · 40d
Template please 🐧
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 40d
Don't have one. I just took someone else's post and put white squares over the ones I disagreed with
IEatDaFeesh@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 40d
It's literally a white screen with black rectangles 💀
SpaceCadet@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 39d
rumba@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 39d
Favorite: NixOS
First Distro Used: Slackware
Distro You Want to Use in the Future: Silverblue, i didn't love redhat after the split off fedora, but I could stand to try another immutable
Honorable Mention: Arch
Distro You Liked the Least: Fedora
Distro You Currently Use: Nixos
The Distro You Used for the Longest Time: Debian
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 39d
Favorite: Debian
First Distro Used: Ubuntu 10.04
Distro You Want to Use in the Future: CachyOS
Honorable Mention: Fedora
Distro You Liked the Least: Post-Snap Ubuntu
Distro You Currently Use: Debian, Fedora, SteamOS
The Distro You Used for the Longest Time: Debian
daggermoon@piefed.world · 1 pts · 40d
I loved Peppermint OS 10. They did a complete redesign of the DE and it just isn't the same. It's also based on Debian or Devuan now instead of Ubuntu which i'm mostly indifferent to.
baconsunday@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 39d
No CachyOS ? That is the best one
lyralycan@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 40d
Somewhat accurate for me, but I dabbled with Ubuntu, Debian and Alpine for my server so idk if that counts, otherwise my first distro was Arch but the distro I recommend to everyone as their first is Mint+Cinnamon, especially if they're used to Windows
HAL_9_TRILLION@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 41d
I started with Slackware in 96 then was on a friend's Debian server in like 98. I lost the friend account so I switched to Ubuntu in like... 08 mainly because that's what Digital Ocean offered in its prebuilt stacks, I didn't really have an opinion. Switched to Linux on the desktop only last year, went with Mint since I'd gotten used to Ubuntu. I'm happy, don't feel the need to do anything else really. I have a Steam Deck so obviously I've used SteamOS, not really a fan of the immutable thing.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 40d
Tbf, I believe CachyOS has taken the reigns of "Arch based gaming distro that doesn't have immutable OS restrictions", so that'd probably the easiest solution for that.
On the slackware note though, my uncle still uses it (I think it was Puppy last I checked). He was a former chip designer at IBM and Intel, and got on the linux for privacy bandwagon long enough ago to show me the ropes of linux as I was growing up.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 40d
Every time I tried to install SUSE, it ended up with a white screen with cursor. Truly worthy of honorable mention
__Lost__@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 40d
My journey started with red hat, then gentoo, a few years back to Microsoft with windows vista, then back to ubuntu, and now arch. And i use raspbian and debian on my servers. Besides the install program and package manager, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between different distros.
heliotrope@retrofed.com · 1 pts · 32d
Pika@hikki.team · 2 pts · 30d
This person deeply hates all modern computing
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 40d
danielfm123@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 40d
And take and red hat here then Slackware.... It's hard to believe you haven't tried fedora.
And if you like arch, try cachyos, it's the same but with more compilation optimization: performance for free.
trainsrkool@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 41d
i use arch, btw