The conversation so many people are simply not ready for

Thats the point of the post. The user calling out "selfish is doing too much work" is saying that its not the individual who is to blame, its society.

idk the wealthy seem to be plenty pissed about the poors not breeding enough. Seems like good leverage.

You can tell who is from the USA and who isn't in here.

The USA ain't fixing shit anytime soon. People here are still trying to figure who gets to pee in which bathroom and if teaching is a real job.

What's simpler

• Just don't have kids and cope with the face that it's not the best solution

• fix the system

The rich want poor to have kids so they have more chattel. I don't think it's eugenics at all, the rich wouldn't know what to do with fewer wage slaves.

long as you fix the system before having the kids i ageee

Yes but this is an antinatalism propaganda sub.

Kinda wild to go on a childfree forum and be surprised people primarily talk about not having kids for various reasons.

And yes, being unable to afford them is a good reason to not have kids. Yes, eugenics also targets the poor. A broken clock is right twice a day.

In a system designed to opress, and only function on oppression, is it really the parents fault for being trapped in said oppression? And I wouldn't even fault them for choosing to have a child atm, because that's mostly been removed as a choice.

Yep families have figured it out since the beginning of time. Unlike the younger people today who think anyone born before them had life handed to them. Throughout history most people have lived subsistence lives.

"in a proper society".

Well there's your problem...

It seems like the actual problem is the captivity. Maybe that's where the real selfishness lies. The privileged who profit from deprivation and violent control.

Stating that it's fucked up to bring a child into this world that you cannot materially provide for is not billionaire boot licking bullshit. I'm guessing you're one of the poor people that's having kids that you can't materially provide for or you wouldn't be taking it so personally. If you cannot materially provide for your children you're an unfit parent. Why are you advocating for unfit parents to have children? Why do you want children to suffer?

I wish it was that simple. Could you give some example of these civilised countries that have solved it?

I'd see it more like "Poor people shouldn't exist".

But as in "We need a society where nobody is considered poor and everybody is provided for"

Exactly!

We have crested a society that id create d ny humans but thst is also hostile to humans too! THATS exactly why so many developed nations(and even some Global South nations too) have xperienced decreases in sex rates and birth rates. Why give birth in a hostile society that is actually trying to kill you?.....Why have we chosen to do this and continue doing this?

2 children max imo. Until we get shit figured out across the globe. Hell, speed it up, 1 max until we get it figured out. Once we've established we can give everyone a safe and healthy quality of life without destroying the planet, then we can see how many more people we bring into it. Once everyone is working together we should have no problem scaling things down and up as needed.*

*I don't believe this will ever happen.

From their adult life, I can only see it go down.

Gotta keep the whimsy going

your kids

Feel free to end it i guess. Oh no? Oh ok, but you want to decide for others?

Unironically, yes. So should rich people. If we do that one first we can do the other one pretty easily.

I mean considering the alternative is they don’t have access to food, housing, healthcare, and are essentially forced by circumstance to either become criminals or throw themselves into the meat grinder.

Now I don’t even like arguing this anymore since reproductive rights in my neck of the woods have gone away, but you can’t seriously think that giving a kid a miserable, painful life is better than not having a kid at all

Mr. Strawman, is that you?

One way or the other isn't that the goal? We should lift people out of poverty right? Why should poverty persist?

I'm pretty sure it is advocating for child welfare. Like, that's the whole subtext of it.

It is abuse to have children you cannot materially provide for. Like why are you so cool with child neglect?

You say fuck classism and fuck capitalism and yet you wont do a thing to destroy either classism or capitalism so that a poor person will never again have to worry about having as many children as they like. Classic. Round of applause 👏🏿

If you , and well.most of the people around you, cant or dont wamt to destroy a system that limits your abilities to have sex and have children ? Work within its limits based on your life and your material conditions . DOne and done. There are no third option. Destroy the syystem or work within the limits it has placed upon you and your fellow peoples.

If you have the time to and can afford to havve more children than mitt romney and nba youngboy combined ? Then have fun shooting them out of you like youre a clown car.

If you cant? Then Toughen The Fuck UP ButterCup, Deal With Your Bad Luck. Eeither destroy the system that prevents you from having a trillion kids OR adult the fuck up and dont have any. There is no third option and there will NEVER be a third option.

You cant continue to lay down and accept a system thatt makes it so that ONLY the very wealthy and very politically connected l are only ones who can realistically raise a healthy , wealthy cchild BUT THEN ALSO gett mad at the poor people,, poor as you, who choose to ALSO lay down and accept this genocidal nonsensical system , as you have, and not have any children.

Either or, kid. There are no third options and there will never be any. Destroy the system or work within the limits it has placed upon you if you want to lay down and take that Ass Whooping of Impoverishment©®™

Sure. But choice and logic also exist in human beings, and those more than anything else are what set us apart from other life forms. "We'll figure it out" is not a plan, it's an almost surefire way to fuck up your kid one way or another.

And sadly a lot of people breed exactly like animals. They don't really care about their kids, breeding is just the default setting for them.

Sure, but caring about the little ones too. It may not be responsible to bring new children in, but it's benevolent to care about those who were already brought here.

I wouldn’t call it “breeding”. “Breeding” is what we do to plants and animals. I think the word you’re looking for is “procreation”.

....

Most developed countries....

Why cant we create a world where ALL peaceful peoples of all countries have access to these things?

And YES it is our business. We literally have numerous international mercenaries conducting genocide in Palestine and Sudan and I can bet that easily over 90% of those mercenaries had parents who were 'OK' with raising their child in poverty, parents who constantly, even to a fault, romanticized the 'we'll figure it out" part of baby making and/or having sex.... Then you stop wondering how these knuckle draggers become such barbarians

Why cant we create a world where all peaceful peoples have access to universal sterilization, birth control, sex ed, and abortions? Why should we lock these privileges to only people in developed nations?

All the meme says is that if you can't provide for a child you shouldn't have one. It's not controversial at all. If you live in a country that takes child welfare seriously then you're probably able to provide for a child regardless of your economic situation, in which case get your nut and have a kid. But it's not controversial to say that you shouldn't have children that you're unable to provide for. Like 10 percent of kids in the US are food insecure. This kids are being traumatized because they don't know when their next meal will be. Housing insecurity causes trauma too.

Or maybe just off ourselves - not the planet. Ducks and dogs and such seem like they have a grip on living. It’s us who can’t just find an equilibrium with the natural world that sustains our existence. We are the psychos creating systems that destroy and oppress to appease non-biologically necessary delusions like ego.

I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricasee, or a ragoust.

He stole this (in 1729) from Snowpiercer

One of my kids is a genetics scientist and she explained this as - it's not that older women have a higher rate of conceiving sick kids, but our immune systems do a worse job of figuring that out and aborting them. So 22 year old gets pregnant, embryo is not healthy, body yeets it before she even knows she's pregnant. 42 year old body doesn't screen as well and it might stick.

Anecdotally - I had one set young & one in late 30s and there is no difference in their health or intelligence. The one difference I think the older ones got was watching me go to school and get a better job, they were around for that economic arc and sort of internalized the belief it can be done. Well, and the second set were bigger because I was, as the midwife put it, better nourished as we were not so poor.

And I cannot with confidence say that my kids harmed my economic situation as they were the reason I had to get a better job. Probably wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

This doesnt read to me as oops babies, it's people who want kids even though they can't afford to take care of them. I agree with the other part but it's like telling a woman she shouldn't go out at night, it sucks that you have to do that but that's the reality you live in. You can't put another person through hardship because you wanted kids.

Yes those realities are created by capitalism, but not every baby in a poor family is an accident. Plenty of people on the planet have purposely decided to bring a child into this world even though they are financially incapable to provide for that child, even though they fully well know that government assistance isn't enough or doesn't even exist. Like I used to live in a neighborhood where lots of poor people live, and many families there have 4 - 6 children just because they believe their religion dictates they should have large families even though they live in a small two bedroom apartment. Guess what, most of those kids do not escape poverty and repeat the cycle and some even resort to crime and I'm not talking about petty theft I'm talking about serious organized crime where innocent people die. So not only did they pass on the hardship to the next generation they also multiplied it and spread the suffering beyond their own family and left the problems for society to solve.

no child is left behind if they are required to have trust funds before being considered children.

Where?

"Children, which are entirely optional, should be fed and cared for"

"Oh so you wanna exterminate disabled people??"

If our society was able to help those in extreme poverty, they can have all the kids they want. But bringing new life into the world, which is entirely your fault, knowing they will suffer... Is evil. You can have sex as much as you want, but if you cant 100% support and love the most disabled person youve ever witnessed and then some, you shouldnt have kids.

That goes for all walks of life. Any child can be born with spina bifida, an extreme intellectual disability, or some other dice-roll complication. Until medical care is free and you can pay for whatever isnt, you shouldnt have kids. Just like, objectively.

Always has been.

It's more the idea of only the fittest are capable of reproducing, instead of the more eugenicist take of choosing the characteristics of who is allowed to breed. So I wager it's more anarcho-capitalist, social-darwinist than explicit eugenicist thought.

Go play in traffic, you window-licker

And while we’re at it, don’t bother buying them clothing - just pick leaves from the trees while you’re on your forest walks and fashion loin cloths. So much cheaper - if they go up a size, just add more leaves!

Same with shelter! Can’t afford a home? Just find some cave your family can sleep in. No mortgage or rent to worry about.

School supplies? Pfft, just educate your kids at home in your cave, scratching writing into the walls - no backpacks, notebooks, or other supplies needed!

It’s so easy and affordable to raise kids when you have no realistic idea of what raising kids entails.

Lol, guarantee 1000% you aren't a parent. McDonald's is way fucking cheaper than cooking 3 nutritional meals a day, even if you have the time. Chinese junk toys cost 5 bucks, taking a walk in the forest requires a car for most.

You're fucking delusional. Kids are the most expensive thing in your life after your mortgage.

But they need diapers and clothes, they multiply your food budget and they need taking care off, that means either paying someone to do it or decreasing your take home pay because you work less. Any displacement is significantly more expensive, also because the cheaper options become less viable. They need space -at least a bedroom- so a larger house is also needed.

Wow. Congratulations. You managed to make one of the most uninformed and ignorant baits I've read today.

Privileged incels.

Are wee bots?

No we just have brains that are older tham 12 years old unlike yours' loool