Maybe OP knew all along that they wanted to use the previous package list to upgrade and fetch the new one after! Maybe we’re all actually inverting it…
(I’m just being silly, I recognize that an old package list would probably cause issues with installing or upgrading packages.)
(I’m just being silly, I recognize that an old package list would probably cause issues with installing or upgrading packages.)
No problems anywhere you can always install older versions from a repo.
Upgrade -> update two days ago and then again today will leave me with exactly the same packages as it would if I ran it correctly the first time and then not at all today. Just the state of two days ago.
If you can't remember one or two commands then you are in fact stupid. With that said, Linux is for everyone.
There are distros that have auto updates as a feature they ship (Linux Mint comes to mind). There are distros that are basically impossible to break and there are distros where you are responsible for building your own system and keeping it functioning. It all depends on your own needs. Linux gives you the freedom to choose and there are more than one way to do things.
On linux, you can do what you wish. You can use a desktop environment with a GUI software center that pops up a notification that prompts you to install updates. Or update by opening the software center and selecting the ones you want. Or use the terminal commands. Or write an alias so you can type “update” and have it execute all your commands in the right order. Or script it to run silently in the background on an automated schedule.
And you can use your computer during updates, there’s no mandatory update during shutdown/boot.
If I try to update my GPU while I'm running a game sometimes it falls back to integrated graphics and gets slow+warm til I restart. That's a fuckup I just couldn't make on windows. Sorry, checkmate fosscommie.
fun fact: GPU drivers on Windows run in userspace, because MS got fed up with all the blue screens they caused and kicked them out of the kernel. if the GPU driver crashes, the screen will go dark for a second and then flick back on. if the GPU driver can't restart then Windows will fall back to software rendering.
On Mint I set up an automatic update schedule and have been double checking it when I think to. All GUI, no terminal commands. So far it’s been seamless. (Knock on wood)
Whoa, do you have something to read up on that? I'd be extremely surprised, since apt-get is supposed to be the script-safe variant, i.e. I'd imagine it's the more stable of the two.
It's actually just personal experience, but I stopped using apt-get a few years back now because I noticed if I did apt after apt-get there would often be a bunch of packages it missed.
Edit: looks like it might be because apt-get can't satisfy dependencies install new packages when upgrading while apt can since apt is a suite of different apt tools rolled into one.
Yeah I'm reading a little bit on it, and it seems like apt-get can't install new packages during an upgrade. On initial reading I was thinking there were specific packages it couldn't download or something, but this makes sense too. Regardless, this is news to me; I always assumed that apt and apt-get were the same process, just with apt-get having stable text output for awk'ing and apt being human-readable. I've been using nala for a long time anyway, but this is very useful knowledge.
You're right, I misspoke, it's that it can't install new packages, it can only upgrade existing ones. I guess I was thinking the only reason it would need to install new packages was if that was a new dependency.
Wait what? I have been running silver blue and vanilla fedora recently and I don't remember this happening. I always run my update script manually every day or so though. When do you see this screen?
It updates just like Windows automatically, in Discover. Then it asks to restart and upgrade and it's just like Windows. I did this just today. Nice UI and UX with Fedora with Plasma.
What? I've never had fedora reboot itself. Sometimes it asks if I want to install updates on reboot or shutdown. But I am always in charge of when that happens.
Gets the Ok from IT to switch to a Linux Distro for my work desktop.
Gets the Ok from my direct manager.
Gets the Ok from our contracts manager who used to be in my direct managers position before.
Direct manager reaches out to lead developer, who happens to be a windows fanboy, for the web app we use to ensure “compatibility”, gets told to be careful of what I do and our cybersecurity insurance won’t cover it.
Be me, looking around at all the minuscule pieces of hardware connected to the internet likely running some form of Linux or Unix.
I've started noticing websites just to refuse to work on Linux:
Xfinity
Microsoft
United Airlines
American Airlines
It's not like some weird script error either. It's straight up a 403 Forbidden on certain routes. Works perfectly fine if I switch to my Windows laptop. It's like it took one look at my user agent string and decided I was a bot.
Not saying you're wrong, but if you're running a VPN it could be that as well. More and more sites are demanding CAPTCHA tests and verification holds or just returning 403 for VPN access no matter what OS you are running.
Man they get really up in your business if you aren’t using Chrome and their dinky extension, that I swear he pulled from someone’s GitHub and rebranded as his own, which all it does is open file links in the file browser.
I made a point by switching my user agent on Zen Browser to report as Chrome, Ubuntu haven’t heard a peep about it yet.
Side note at one point in time the clock-in we use, which is also a web app, had its admin/manager panel exposed to everyone in the company, I reported it and all I got was a thanks.
&& executes the second command, if the command before was successful, || executes the second command if the first one was unsuccessful and ; executes the second command regardless of success.
Fun fact and disclaimer: this is a fork bomb. i tried it to run it on my phone via termux, thinking android would act up and terminate termux; but nope, my phone froze. Thankfully i hard-reset my phone by holding [VOLUME_DOWN]+[POWER] for ~5 seconds.
I may be totally confused but I've also always done it in that order, otherwise I feel like it would run upgrades from your cache of the apt repos (possibly hitting errors as stuff likes to change), then after it would run apt update (updating the repos).
My thought has always been update repos, then check those repos for software upgrades. I could definitely be wrong though.
Yeah but shouldn't the order matter? My understanding was that && just said 'after the previous command, run this... ' so running upgrade before update would miss any changes changes to repos... From what I can tell update is required before upgrade (just like you have it), doing it in reverse missed a ton of updates for me.
Presumably running upgrade with the update flag is smart enough to do it in the proper order because there would be no point in doing it in the opposite order. Many other package managers just work like this out of the box. Homebrew is such an example. Running upgrade automatically does "update" first.
The apt(8) commandline is designed as an end-user tool and it may change behavior between versions. While it tries not to break backward compatibility this is not guaranteed either if a change seems beneficial for interactive use.
That'd just the difference between them, I don't think it's something to worry about in your personal machine. Maybe if you're writing a script that thousands of people will use or something.
Install Windows - does updates as part of the installation process. Get to desktop and check for updates - more updates to install. Reboot and check for updates again - yet more updates.
No it will update and once that is done it will shut down. But the update includes a restart so it will restart and then require you to type your password so it can finish the update, after which it will shut down.
It's insanity. I had to upgrade my work laptop to windows 11 this week.
IT didn't do their research and turns out our main software isn't compatible with windows 11 at all. So i had to downgrade back to windows 10. When i did, photos don't work and the microsoft store wont open.
Windows is such a horrible system, i have no idea why they made it so poorly. I could have installed any distro of linux and had it working well in less than 20 minutes. Upgrading to windows 11 took almost 2 hours and it still didn't work.
Now IT has to scramble to find a solution before the 14th and we lose all security updates, which they are very concerned about. What a nightmare to be in IT.
I had the same problem trying to use a Windows 11 laptop after running linux at home for years. Turns out the "looking stuff up" part is how you learn how to use it better.
::: spoiler note
this doesn't actually do the same thing as the previous comment running autoremove afterwards does; the former will remove things which were rendered removable by the upgrade while the latter will only remove things which were already autoremovable prior the upgrade.
:::
The beauty of Linux is the triviality of creating an alias that runs whatever long or short update command by typing "upd" or "release_the_epstein_files". E.g., in ~/.bashrc, place: alias release_the_epstein_files="sudo pacman -Syu --noconfirm"
Nothing like the joy of my system upgrading without a hassle... just need to press the up arrow key until I find the command... I'll get there eventually
Or ctrl+r and start typing what you're searching for, and repeat ctrl+r to find the next newest match.
For example, [C-r] ssh [C-r] [C-r] will auto fill the 3rd most recent ssh command you've run. Try it, your life will be filled with rainbows and unicorns.
There are even better ways built into the shell, but I can never remember any of them. I also never thought of history|grep, I think I might actually remember that one. Thanks!
Last week my brother had to use my laptop and install Rstudio(for some University project) because his Mac was too old and slow. I was out of home so I had to instruct him through the phone and I could hear his awe while he explained how easy was to install the program. He told me laughing that he could see the pacman and started to cheer for it, this made my day.
I guess what I meant is that I don't like upgrades that happen without me explicitly requesting each and every one of them, and me watching the upgrade process as it happens for errors.
I never got unattended-upgrades to work for me on the machine I tried it on. Best I could tell, it just didn't do anything. It was frustrating.
But many years back I set up my raspberry pi with a cron job that was effectively (if not literally) apt update && apt full-upgrade && reboot and that seemed to be working just fine.
I followed a number of guides to try to get it to work. Including doing that. No dice.
I still think it's probably user error on my part, but I'm still shocked there was no command to effectively "force run an unattended upgrade now" to test that it works correctly.
You don't have to reboot after updating Debian (and most mutable distros I think?) packages, you just need to restart the updated software/software using updated libraries.
The easiest way to achieve this is of course to reboot, but it's not required at all.
Yes, saving is definitely not a thing in any app...
What I was specifically referencing there though is that Linux distro upgrade installers universally suck AFAIK. They break left and right and when they do they basically take out the system. Otherwise, Windows’ behavior there does suck a fair bit
Except that every so often my graphics drivers get messed up somehow and I need to spend the afternoon debugging it. Tbf this has happened to me on Windows too, although less often.
Gnome Software does this with offline upgrades. It's optional. Doing sudo dnf upgrade is the same as sudo apt update && upgrade. No reboot. Obviously you should reboot for kernels and certain hooks but otherwise yeah. You can disable gnome software automatic downloads etc
Shhh, you can just edit the comment to be "yay -Sau" and pretend you check for whether stuff breaks and act updating aur packages is something you prefer to do seperately ;)
Am I incorrect to say that using the command "super user do" can be expressed conversationally as "invoking super user?" I'm confused. The meme literally says "sudo." And while you don't need to begin the command with "sudo," you'll then get a message asking you to enter your root password. So you're still kinda invoking super user.
Maybe you should double-check me, though. Type $ apt-get update into your terminal. If it asks for your password, reply with what you entered to satisfy that prompt. For research reasons.
su means "switch user" and by default uses root if a root user exists.
You can use sudo -i, sudo bash (or sudo sh, sudo fish etc), run0 and likely more ways to open a root shell.
But for running a program with root, use sudo, run0 , pkexec or doas.
Actually, you should not run internet-facing programs as root. For example when downloading a repo file, download it without root, move it with root.
But well, most package managers do not care and use don't use polkit (ask for password when needed). Flatpak, rpm-ostree and some others use polkit well.
Enough of these dumb memes already. Do we really so desperately need to boost our self esteem that fucking much? Yes Linux has it's cool benefits over Windows. We fucking know.
212 Comments
ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 251 pts · 323d
The poster would be more convincing if you hadn't inverted
apt-get updateandapt-get upgrade...SmoochyPit@lemmy.ca · 39 pts · 323d
Maybe OP knew all along that they wanted to use the previous package list to upgrade and fetch the new one after! Maybe we’re all actually inverting it…
(I’m just being silly, I recognize that an old package list would probably cause issues with installing or upgrading packages.)
groet@feddit.org · 7 pts · 322d
No problems anywhere you can always install older versions from a repo.
Upgrade -> update two days ago and then again today will leave me with exactly the same packages as it would if I ran it correctly the first time and then not at all today. Just the state of two days ago.
not_IO@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 37 pts · 323d
😭😭
MimicJar@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 323d
I mean technically you did "update" the OS. It wasn't a particularly useful command by going second, but I bet it was fast.
groet@feddit.org · 2 pts · 322d
If you run it like that every day you will always be one day behind in packages. Not realy that big of a problem (unless on an internet facing server)
dev_null@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 322d
It's fine! You were trying to show how Windows is better because you can't make a mistake like that and succeeded!
I'm joking
uzay@infosec.pub · 27 pts · 323d
I mean, it's definitely faster this way around
tuckerm@feddit.online · 8 pts · 322d
It accurately got them backwards, the same way I always do. :)
Storm@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 323d
Thank you, I mostly use pacman but have Debian (rasbian?) on raspberry pi and was fully willing to believe I'd been updating it wrong this whole time
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 323d
That’s the best part of this post. Windows is fully automatic, while on Linux you need to tell apart two terminal commands with confusing naming.
eta@feddit.org · 20 pts · 323d
Not necessarily. On Arch it's just "sudo pacman -Syu" and on Fedora it's just "sudo dnf update".
anguo@piefed.ca · 17 pts · 323d
I just type "yay".
rwdf@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 323d
I just type "paru".
fascicle@leminal.space · 4 pts · 322d
I just type help
felbane@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 322d
I just click the "Install Updates" notification when it pops up.
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 323d
See, it’s super easy on Linux, just different on every distribution.
DaTingGoBrrr@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 322d
If you're too stupid to remember one or two commands there are GUI applications available where you can click "a button" to update your system.
Or make an alias with the update command and name it "update". This works on every distro.
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 322d
Ah yes, the way to advocate for Linux is calling users stupid.
DaTingGoBrrr@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 322d
If you can't remember one or two commands then you are in fact stupid. With that said, Linux is for everyone.
There are distros that have auto updates as a feature they ship (Linux Mint comes to mind). There are distros that are basically impossible to break and there are distros where you are responsible for building your own system and keeping it functioning. It all depends on your own needs. Linux gives you the freedom to choose and there are more than one way to do things.
moobythegoldensock@infosec.pub · 13 pts · 323d
On linux, you can do what you wish. You can use a desktop environment with a GUI software center that pops up a notification that prompts you to install updates. Or update by opening the software center and selecting the ones you want. Or use the terminal commands. Or write an alias so you can type “update” and have it execute all your commands in the right order. Or script it to run silently in the background on an automated schedule.
And you can use your computer during updates, there’s no mandatory update during shutdown/boot.
primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus · 1 pts · 322d
If I try to update my GPU while I'm running a game sometimes it falls back to integrated graphics and gets slow+warm til I restart. That's a fuckup I just couldn't make on windows. Sorry, checkmate fosscommie.
fascicle@leminal.space · 6 pts · 322d
Curious what happens in windows now
missfrizzle@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 322d
fun fact: GPU drivers on Windows run in userspace, because MS got fed up with all the blue screens they caused and kicked them out of the kernel. if the GPU driver crashes, the screen will go dark for a second and then flick back on. if the GPU driver can't restart then Windows will fall back to software rendering.
DacoTaco@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
Which is what you see happening when updating or reinstalling a gpu driver.
Funny thing is, gpu drivers can still cause a bsod by causing fuckups in the directx driver, which ive seen happen :')
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 322d
On Mint I set up an automatic update schedule and have been double checking it when I think to. All GUI, no terminal commands. So far it’s been seamless. (Knock on wood)
DacoTaco@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
You think ive touched the apt commands in linux...?
I mean, youre right, but thats because i like to be hands on. But i dont have to if i wanted :p
primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus · 3 pts · 322d
You dont though. Most linux also have an automatic/GUI option.
Kiuyn@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 322d
Ging@anarchist.nexus · 2 pts · 322d
Wait I'm confused, did OP invert it or did you?
DacoTaco@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 322d
Op inverted.
apt updateupdates the local package cache of apt so it knows what packages have updates.apt upgradethen installs those updates.rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 61 pts · 323d
Who even uses apt-get these days?
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 43 pts · 323d
Yeah
apt-getis so old it officially misses packages thatapt... gets.CoyoteFacts@piefed.ca · 27 pts · 323d
Whoa, do you have something to read up on that? I'd be extremely surprised, since
apt-getis supposed to be the script-safe variant, i.e. I'd imagine it's the more stable of the two.SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 323d
It's actually just personal experience, but I stopped using
apt-geta few years back now because I noticed if I didaptafterapt-getthere would often be a bunch of packages it missed.Edit: looks like it might be because
apt-getcan'tsatisfy dependenciesinstall new packages when upgrading whileaptcan sinceaptis a suite of differentapttools rolled into one.CoyoteFacts@piefed.ca · 13 pts · 323d
Yeah I'm reading a little bit on it, and it seems like
apt-getcan't install new packages during an upgrade. On initial reading I was thinking there were specific packages it couldn't download or something, but this makes sense too. Regardless, this is news to me; I always assumed thataptandapt-getwere the same process, just withapt-gethaving stable text output for awk'ing andaptbeing human-readable. I've been usingnalafor a long time anyway, but this is very useful knowledge.felbane@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 322d
Does Simba know about this?
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 323d
Wait what.
apt-getis made for scripting,aptis interactive. Both should resolve dependencies.dpkgdoes not resolve them.But for interactive usage always use apt, guides using apt-get have no idea what they are doing
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 323d
You're right, I misspoke, it's that it can't install new packages, it can only upgrade existing ones. I guess I was thinking the only reason it would need to install new packages was if that was a new dependency.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 323d
Very weird
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 322d
apt-get upgrade --with-new-pkgsExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 9 pts · 323d
aptgenerally downloads more things thanapt-geton my Debian machine.apt-getnever broke anything, but I tend to eye it suspiciously now.9point6@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 323d
Legitimately didn't know this and occasionally type
apt-getjust for a bit of frivolityIAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 323d
have been out of the loop for a while. what am I missing, what should I use in the future?
flemtone@lemmy.world · 56 pts · 322d
Dont you mean: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
wurstgulasch3000@feddit.org · 13 pts · 322d
Yea
apt-getis so 2010denhafiz_@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 321d
Nope. I meant paru.
Blaster_M@lemmy.world · 53 pts · 323d
Meanwhile in Fedora:
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 24 pts · 323d
It is done that way for better reliability. It is optional and not even needed with Silverblue.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 322d
Wait what? I have been running silver blue and vanilla fedora recently and I don't remember this happening. I always run my update script manually every day or so though. When do you see this screen?
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 322d
When it updatedssystem files it'll do this when you shut down your computer.
If you never shut it down it never will lol
minkymunkey_7_7@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
It updates just like Windows automatically, in Discover. Then it asks to restart and upgrade and it's just like Windows. I did this just today. Nice UI and UX with Fedora with Plasma.
Shady_Shiroe@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 323d
At least you get the option to disable, I have it disabled, I'll reboot when I say I will reboot.
greedytacothief@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 322d
What? I've never had fedora reboot itself. Sometimes it asks if I want to install updates on reboot or shutdown. But I am always in charge of when that happens.
RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com · 2 pts · 322d
Is it just me or does it feel like this takes longer than just upgrading and restarting manually?
ohshit604@sh.itjust.works · 39 pts · 322d
Be me -
Gets the Ok from IT to switch to a Linux Distro for my work desktop.
Gets the Ok from my direct manager.
Gets the Ok from our contracts manager who used to be in my direct managers position before.
Direct manager reaches out to lead developer, who happens to be a windows fanboy, for the web app we use to ensure “compatibility”, gets told to be careful of what I do and our cybersecurity insurance won’t cover it.
Be me, looking around at all the minuscule pieces of hardware connected to the internet likely running some form of Linux or Unix.
bytesonbike@discuss.online · 46 pts · 322d
It's a fucking web app. Make sure it works for a browser. You suck as a web developer if your shit web app needs to work on a specific OS.
And those are fighting words because I build web apps.
Technus@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 322d
I've started noticing websites just to refuse to work on Linux:
It's not like some weird script error either. It's straight up a 403 Forbidden on certain routes. Works perfectly fine if I switch to my Windows laptop. It's like it took one look at my user agent string and decided I was a bot.
ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 322d
Not saying you're wrong, but if you're running a VPN it could be that as well. More and more sites are demanding CAPTCHA tests and verification holds or just returning 403 for VPN access no matter what OS you are running.
NateNate60@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 322d
I cooked up my own VPN and I still get blocked sometimes because it's a data centre IP. For example, Wikipedia blocked the whole /30 range.
Technus@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 322d
No VPN.
ohshit604@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 322d
Man they get really up in your business if you aren’t using Chrome and their dinky extension, that I swear he pulled from someone’s GitHub and rebranded as his own, which all it does is open file links in the file browser.
I made a point by switching my user agent on Zen Browser to report as Chrome, Ubuntu haven’t heard a peep about it yet.
Side note at one point in time the clock-in we use, which is also a web app, had its admin/manager panel exposed to everyone in the company, I reported it and all I got was a thanks.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 37 pts · 323d
This is so cursed.
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 35 pts · 322d
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 25 pts · 322d
Are you serious? That's a thing? I've been doing apt update and apt upgrade for years
Allero@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 322d
Yes.
Also don't forget && exists for sequential completion of any commands
MsFlammkuchen@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 322d
&&executes the second command, if the command before was successful,||executes the second command if the first one was unsuccessful and;executes the second command regardless of success.myotheraccount@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 322d
These are much more useful than the :(){ :|:& };: operator
somerandomperson@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 322d
Fun fact and disclaimer: this is a fork bomb. i tried it to run it on my phone via termux, thinking android would act up and terminate termux; but nope, my phone froze. Thankfully i hard-reset my phone by holding [VOLUME_DOWN]+[POWER] for ~5 seconds.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 4 pts · 322d
Expanded it's more clear what's going on.
Johnmannesca@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 321d
TSA would like to know your location
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 322d
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 4 pts · 322d
Yeah, I was doing
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgradeITGuyLevi@programming.dev · 2 pts · 322d
I may be totally confused but I've also always done it in that order, otherwise I feel like it would run upgrades from your cache of the apt repos (possibly hitting errors as stuff likes to change), then after it would run apt update (updating the repos).
My thought has always been update repos, then check those repos for software upgrades. I could definitely be wrong though.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 3 pts · 322d
Presumably running upgrade with the update flag does it all in one go.
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev · 3 pts · 321d
Yeah but shouldn't the order matter? My understanding was that && just said 'after the previous command, run this... ' so running upgrade before update would miss any changes changes to repos... From what I can tell update is required before upgrade (just like you have it), doing it in reverse missed a ton of updates for me.
reggu@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 321d
If it were upgrade && update, yes that would miss the boat. --update is a baked in feature of apt upgrade, so it knows what to do ^_^
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 1 pts · 321d
Presumably running upgrade with the update flag is smart enough to do it in the proper order because there would be no point in doing it in the opposite order. Many other package managers just work like this out of the box. Homebrew is such an example. Running upgrade automatically does "update" first.
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 322d
Wilmo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 321d
It also has sudo apt autopurge which does autoremove --purge
Revan343@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 322d
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgradeikidd@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 322d
Ain't nobody got time for apt-get. apt all the way.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 9 pts · 322d
Yeah it's crazy to me that people default to it. For scripts, sure, but apt is so much prettier.
groet@feddit.org · 4 pts · 322d
I use apt in scripts and docker files. I don't even know what apt-get is supposed to do better there?
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 4 pts · 322d
It has a stable API but realistically I can't see them changing apt so much it matters.
FishFace@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
People are creatures of habit and apt didn't always exist
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 322d
I recall somewhere that it makes some kind of difference in scripts
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 3 pts · 322d
apt-get has a stable API is my understanding.
somerandomperson@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 322d
wdym "a stable api"?
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 1 pts · 322d
https://manpages.debian.org/buster/apt/apt.8.en.html
somerandomperson@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 322d
oh, ok.
but i wouldn't care. i'd say "fuck it, we ball"
(confirmable by the number of
--noconfirms used inhistory)JackbyDev@programming.dev · 1 pts · 322d
That'd just the difference between them, I don't think it's something to worry about in your personal machine. Maybe if you're writing a script that thousands of people will use or something.
limer@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 322d
A mythical thing. Humans tell stories of impossible things around campfires and by the light of monitors
militaryintelligence@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 322d
Click Update and Shut Down
Windows: Updates and restarts
trollface.jpg
Infernal_pizza@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 322d
Install Windows - does updates as part of the installation process. Get to desktop and check for updates - more updates to install. Reboot and check for updates again - yet more updates.
groet@feddit.org · 4 pts · 322d
No it will update and once that is done it will shut down. But the update includes a restart so it will restart and then require you to type your password so it can finish the update, after which it will shut down.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 323d
sudo dnf up
IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 323d
sudo zypper dup
albbi@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 322d
yay. permissions for sudo will be asked for automatically.LoafedBurrito@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 322d
It's insanity. I had to upgrade my work laptop to windows 11 this week.
IT didn't do their research and turns out our main software isn't compatible with windows 11 at all. So i had to downgrade back to windows 10. When i did, photos don't work and the microsoft store wont open.
Windows is such a horrible system, i have no idea why they made it so poorly. I could have installed any distro of linux and had it working well in less than 20 minutes. Upgrading to windows 11 took almost 2 hours and it still didn't work.
Now IT has to scramble to find a solution before the 14th and we lose all security updates, which they are very concerned about. What a nightmare to be in IT.
WhatsHerBucket@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 322d
It’s always a nightmare being in IT lol
Nobody ever calls to say, “Hey! Just wanted to let you know that my email is working great, keep up the good work!”
We only hear from people when shit is broken.
Being in a windows shop only makes it 100x more difficult and expensive.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 20 pts · 323d
I really like Linux but I just wish I understood how to use it better. I keep having to look up how to do things.
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 32 pts · 323d
That’s how you learn to use it better!
underscores@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 322d
That's literally everything ever that is worth it.
Imagine saying "I really wanna play piano but I just wish I understood how to play it better. I keep having to look up how to do things".
felbane@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 322d
I had the same problem trying to use a Windows 11 laptop after running linux at home for years. Turns out the "looking stuff up" part is how you learn how to use it better.
tomkatt@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 323d
Even better:
pinpin@sh.itjust.works · 23 pts · 323d
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 322d
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 322d
sudo apt --update --autoremove upgrade -y::: spoiler note this doesn't actually do the same thing as the previous comment running autoremove afterwards does; the former will remove things which were rendered removable by the upgrade while the latter will only remove things which were already autoremovable prior the upgrade. :::
arsCynic@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 322d
pacman -Syupineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 322d
-- noconfirm
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 322d
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 322d
do as I say
Sturgist@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 322d
I'm on Garuda, so I just type
I can still type out pacman -Syu, but nice that I don't have to.
arsCynic@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 322d
The beauty of Linux is the triviality of creating an alias that runs whatever long or short update command by typing "upd" or "release_the_epstein_files". E.g., in
~/.bashrc, place:alias release_the_epstein_files="sudo pacman -Syu --noconfirm"gari_9812@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 323d
Nothing like the joy of my system upgrading without a hassle... just need to press the up arrow key until I find the command... I'll get there eventually
bappity@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 323d
I did this until my coworker got annoyed enough that they told me to start using
history | greplmaoofelbane@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 322d
Or ctrl+r and start typing what you're searching for, and repeat ctrl+r to find the next newest match.
For example,
[C-r] ssh [C-r] [C-r]will auto fill the 3rd most recent ssh command you've run. Try it, your life will be filled with rainbows and unicorns.ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 322d
Wait until they tell you about ctrl+r!
Echolynx@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 322d
Wow, thank you for this.
NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 322d
There are even better ways built into the shell, but I can never remember any of them. I also never thought of
history|grep, I think I might actually remember that one. Thanks!BlueKey@fedia.io · 2 pts · 322d
fishshell and you can type the first chars of the command and it will show an autocompleate.MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 322d
Well, true, one of the slowest packaging systems in Linux world is still faster than Windows Update.
alecsargent@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 323d
Last week my brother had to use my laptop and install Rstudio(for some University project) because his Mac was too old and slow. I was out of home so I had to instruct him through the phone and I could hear his awe while he explained how easy was to install the program. He told me laughing that he could see the pacman and started to cheer for it, this made my day.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 323d
unattended-upgradesandcronjobs for everything else ftw.ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 23 pts · 323d
No Linux system of mine upgrades itself without my explicit consent. That's one of the many reasons why I don't run Windows.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 323d
Setting those up is me explicitly giving my consent for it to upgrade on a schedule.
ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 14 pts · 323d
Yeah alright. That's one way of looking at it 🙂
I guess what I meant is that I don't like upgrades that happen without me explicitly requesting each and every one of them, and me watching the upgrade process as it happens for errors.
NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de · 7 pts · 323d
I never got
unattended-upgradesto work for me on the machine I tried it on. Best I could tell, it just didn't do anything. It was frustrating.But many years back I set up my raspberry pi with a cron job that was effectively (if not literally)
apt update && apt full-upgrade && rebootand that seemed to be working just fine.curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 5 pts · 323d
It broke some things (horrifically) for me because headers didn't get updated, modules didn't get rebuilt.
To make it worse, I didn't set it up. That shit is disabled now. Defunct. Toast. Never again to run.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 323d
You need to edit the config file
NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 322d
I followed a number of guides to try to get it to work. Including doing that. No dice.
I still think it's probably user error on my part, but I'm still shocked there was no command to effectively "force run an unattended upgrade now" to test that it works correctly.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 322d
I even set it up using ansible, should work lol
Install the package, edit the config file, maybe enable a systemd service, maybe not even that
Best_Jeanist@discuss.online · 14 pts · 322d
sudo pacman -Syu
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 5 pts · 322d
sudo yaydingleberrylover@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 322d
You can just use
yay, since you will be prompted for your password anyway.iamdefinitelyoverthirteen@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 322d
Yep, and yay will bitch about you using sudo and make you redo it without sudo.
iamdefinitelyoverthirteen@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 322d
You don't run yay with sudo.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 2 pts · 322d
How do you know what I do?
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 322d
ssu in config,
yay -SyuEddoWagt@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 322d
I believe sudo pacman without an argument works aswell
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 323d
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ enter
bizzle@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 323d
sudo pacman -Syyu
Aedis@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 323d
bizzle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 323d
In real life I use
Broadfern@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
Updating 1/643 (I forgot to update for three weeks)
Junglist@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 322d
sudo zypper ref && sudo zypper dup
Allero@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 322d
Fellow OpenSUSE enjoyer right there
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 322d
Which just sounds ridiculous frankly. Even when you know what it means it still is rediculous.
ozymandias117@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
Is it?
refresh makes it more clear than update that you're not updating the computer's packages, just the database of packages
DPKG based distros also need dist-upgrade or full-upgrade, rather than just upgrade, when you are switching versions where removals might be needed
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 321d
Oh don't get me wrong, I use Suse on a laptop. The commands strike me as funny looking. Like if I didn't know what they did.
There is nothing more serious than Zypper!
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 8 pts · 323d
alias up='topgrade'CaptDust@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 323d
I love topgrade, fantastic piece of software.
Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org · 8 pts · 323d
They both require a restart.
Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 322d
You don't have to reboot after updating Debian (and most mutable distros I think?) packages, you just need to restart the updated software/software using updated libraries.
The easiest way to achieve this is of course to reboot, but it's not required at all.
EtherWhack@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
Usually only for kernal revisions on Linux.
CabbageRelish@midwest.social · 3 pts · 322d
Windows also does most of its updating silently while handling its major version upgrades a lot more elegantly.
EtherWhack@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 322d
When you are neck-deep in a (possibly mult-day) project where a restart would lose your place, I wouldn't really call this 'elegant'...
CabbageRelish@midwest.social · 3 pts · 322d
Yes, saving is definitely not a thing in any app...
What I was specifically referencing there though is that Linux distro upgrade installers universally suck AFAIK. They break left and right and when they do they basically take out the system. Otherwise, Windows’ behavior there does suck a fair bit
Echolynx@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 322d
I gotta say, apt-get is not my favorite way to update... yay is so much simpler.
Wolfram@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 322d
Yay but especially apk keep it much simpler than apt.
Echolynx@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 320d
Apk?
Wolfram@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 320d
It's Alpine Linux's package manager.
iamdefinitelyoverthirteen@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 322d
yay
jojowakaki@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 321d
"I use arch ... btw", also btw
For APT enjoyers,
alias yay="sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade"Also,
alias nay="yay -Rns"Or yeet if you prefer, for the yay/nay or yay/yeet pair.
iamdefinitelyoverthirteen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 321d
Thank you for this, I love it. We use Ubuntu at work and I am quite tempted to covertly add yay as an alias.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club · 8 pts · 322d
YerbaYerba@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 322d
Also just
yayWolfLink@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 323d
Except that every so often my graphics drivers get messed up somehow and I need to spend the afternoon debugging it. Tbf this has happened to me on Windows too, although less often.
felbane@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 322d
Found the nvidia user 😅
WolfLink@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 322d
Yep…
rumba@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 322d
sudo nix-channel --update
sudo nixos-rebuild switch
axEl7fB5@lemmy.cafe · 2 pts · 321d
nvim flake.nixsudo nixos-rebuild switch --flake .#flakeavidamoeba@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 323d
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 323d
And then go into the config and uncomment stuff
sol6_vi@lemmy.makearmy.io · 6 pts · 321d
I'm on arch so its the highlight of every morning 🤣
missfrizzle@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 322d
🙆♀️
fargeol@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 323d
DJDarren@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 322d
topgrade -y
And my work here is done.
Zetta@mander.xyz · 5 pts · 322d
dnf upgrade
Gebruikersnaam@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 322d
dnf5 made this so much more enjoyable
Zetta@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 322d
Is dnf5 on by default in fedora 42? Or is that delayed till 43
Wilmo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 321d
dnf5 became default in 41.
Michal@programming.dev · 5 pts · 321d
Fedora does this too, it reboots to install updates...
Wilmo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 321d
Gnome Software does this with offline upgrades. It's optional. Doing sudo dnf upgrade is the same as sudo apt update && upgrade. No reboot. Obviously you should reboot for kernels and certain hooks but otherwise yeah. You can disable gnome software automatic downloads etc
Evil_Shrubbery@thelemmy.club · 5 pts · 322d
Atomic zypper gang!! <3
Allero@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 322d
Non-atomic zypper enjoyers here!!!
lennee@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 323d
yay -Syu
lennee@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 323d
ok just found out yay is an alias so ive just embarrassed myself publicly
MrChewy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 323d
Shhh, you can just edit the comment to be "yay -Sau" and pretend you check for whether stuff breaks and act updating aur packages is something you prefer to do seperately ;)
Aedis@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 323d
Sort of? But no. It's a aur extension of pacman. Also - Syu is the default flags
lennee@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 323d
yay is an alias of yay -Syu
Sxan@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 323d
yay -Syu --noconfirm
HotsauceHurricane@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 323d
Aight. Question.
Should I upgrade THEN update ? Or vise versa?
It_Is1_24PM@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 323d
apt-get update updates the package index files, while apt-get upgrade upgrades the actual packages installed in your system.
NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 322d
The OP did it in the wrong order. First do
updateto refresh, then doupgradeto install.HotsauceHurricane@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 322d
WHEW. I have been unnecessarily worried about that for like, 2 years.
NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 323d
It's through Update Manager (mintupdate) for me, but I definitely feel like the happy guy looking out at the nice view.
fartographer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 323d
It's missing the part where invoking su requires your password. For the sake of accuracy, I think you should show how you enter your password.
Also, I'm nervous about the command ifconfig. Can you try running that and paste your results here, to help quiet my fears, of course.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 323d
You dont need su for updates
fartographer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 323d
Am I incorrect to say that using the command "super user do" can be expressed conversationally as "invoking super user?" I'm confused. The meme literally says "sudo." And while you don't need to begin the command with "sudo," you'll then get a message asking you to enter your root password. So you're still kinda invoking super user.
Maybe you should double-check me, though. Type $ apt-get update into your terminal. If it asks for your password, reply with what you entered to satisfy that prompt. For research reasons.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 323d
su means "switch user" and by default uses root if a root user exists.
You can use
sudo -i,sudo bash(orsudo sh,sudo fishetc),run0and likely more ways to open a root shell.But for running a program with root, use
sudo,run0,pkexecordoas.Actually, you should not run internet-facing programs as root. For example when downloading a repo file, download it without root, move it with root.
But well, most package managers do not care and use don't use polkit (ask for password when needed). Flatpak, rpm-ostree and some others use polkit well.
fartographer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 322d
Well, look at me learning something new! I guess even if I've RTFM, I should RTFM again.
EtherWhack@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 322d
'su' can call the king to the blood-soaked battlefield; sudo makes a replaceable squire the king's proxy instead.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 322d
Uhm... whatever you say
Oisteink@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 323d
As you have apt in your sudo file? Or maybe you just log in as root?
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 323d
What
fartographer@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 323d
camelbeard@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
My experience, updates usually work fine. Dist upgrades work fine 2/3 of the time.
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 322d
The support for updating to a new version of a distribution is often still a headache. Some distributions don’t support it at all.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 323d
Yeah but I really need to update the kernel
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 2 pts · 323d
Why isnt updating a one liner?
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 5 pts · 322d
topgradetatann@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 323d
dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 322d
Enough of these dumb memes already. Do we really so desperately need to boost our self esteem that fucking much? Yes Linux has it's cool benefits over Windows. We fucking know.
toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 322d
I agree. Enough with these simple memes - we need full-on propaganda!
You know what my OS doesn't do? Yeah, exactly. That's the better question now.
PS I love you
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · -3 pts · 323d
Nach dem Update dann kaputt oder bootet nicht mehr...
Glorifiziert mal keine Paketbasierten Systeme
Debian 13 ist gerade hart am strugglen zB
kepix@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 322d
takes 1 minute on an 8 year old machine. foss gang cant meme.