Framework says it's selling more Linux laptops than Windows as new Laptop 13 Pro sells out first 7 batches
https://www.pcguide.com/news/framework-says-its-selling-more-linux-laptops-than-windows-as-new-laptop-13-pro-sells-out-first-7-batches/
922 points · 127 comments · view on lemmy.world
127 Comments
scytale@piefed.zip · 222 pts · 116d
A lot of people who are aware of Framework are linux users, and the average non-techie user probably doesn't even know they exist.
Also:
If you market your product to linux users, surely you will attract a lot of linux users.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net · 49 pts · 116d
i had a whinge in the comment section of a recent ArsTechnica article where they reviewed a bunch of Laptops and not one from Framework or Tuxedo haha
I have my eye on a Framework Pro 13 but really don't need it, i mostly desktop. I don't Laptop much and just use an old MS Surgace Pro7+ with LMDE installed.
jtrek@startrek.website · 24 pts · 116d
Ars is weirdly pro-windows sometimes , in the comments. I don't read them as much as I used to.
LincolnsDogFido@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 116d
Just let good news be good news brother. We need more of it in the world right now.
commander@lemmy.world · 93 pts · 116d
Linux is legit pretty easy now comparable to Windows. It's application preferences and familiarity that keeps people at bay. New to computer user, I don't think they'd struggle anymore with a gnome or kde linux desktop than with windows. to do the regular stuff people do. Browse the internet. Save their photos/documents in some folders
Liz@midwest.social · 47 pts · 116d
I would guess literally 99% of people could switch to Linux Mint and be more than happy.
original_reader@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 116d
I installed Cinnamon the other day, because I remembered it to be easy to use. It is.
But. It looks dated to me. Could really use a facelift. Maybe it's just me, but in light of modern user interfaces Cinnamon is functional, but not a looker anymore. Zorin OS and Gnome in general, for example, show how it can be done.
Maybe just me...
TheMadCodger@piefed.social · 9 pts · 116d
No, it's not just you. Mint and Ubuntu get thrown around a lot by people recommending them to new users, and they're fine, but they are a bit dated.
bilb@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 116d
I usually push new users to KDE Plasma if they are most used to Windows. It helps that Plasma is also my preference and I know how to help them with it, but yeah. I think it's most likely to make intuitive sense to Windows users.
Matriks404@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 115d
In my opinion both Cinnamon and Plasma are the GOAT, but for new users I think Cinnamon is the best, because from my experience it is trouble-free, and very easy to use, especially for Windows users. I have it on Linux Mint that is installed on one of the family laptops (I use Debian with Plasma myself).
Jumuta@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 115d
i quite like the cinnamon theme in mint, I think it looks really nice, especially with a vibrant wallpaper. In my opinion it's modern but simple and relaxing to look at
Matriks404@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
What do you mean? I know that Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu LTS these days, that means that it has slightly outdated packages, but for most users that need their computer only for browsing the web and other simple uses, it is fine. You can also install flatpaks.
With Ubuntu I don't think the problems is that is dated (it literally is updated every 6 months), but how buggy it is. I literally tried it out like a year ago, and simple applications like Settings app, were just crashing on me after installation.
Liz@midwest.social · 1 pts · 114d
I love the way it looks. It's super easy to figure out where everything is. "Cutting edge" UI designers have a tendency to change things to justify their own existence. Is it easy for the user to navigate? Is it clear what does what? Great. Stick with your design language and only change it if you're forced to by some fundamental change that is incompatible with the framework you currently have.
I fucking hate how every time my phone updates something is bound to be changed with no obvious benefit. Even worse when they remove functionality I was reliant on.
JustEnoughDucks@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 115d
Eh, don't know about that. Probably a very large portion of people would need word/PowerPoint/etc... For company document compatibility.
For sure a lot of people though could easily get by with LibreOffice.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 115d
Not anymore. Most corporate environments I've been in use Office on the web or Google Docs.
RamRabbit@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
MS Office works in a browser, and LibreOffice opens Word/Powerpoint files just fine. Been using LibreOffice for years while my coworkers send me files made with MS Office. It's simply not a blocker.
RiverRabbits@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 115d
web office products from microslop have reduced functionality in comparison to desktop variants, which is most obvious with Powerpoint. However, for sleek designs, canva might work better already, just the interoperability of the m365 office suite between multiple users at once keeps it at the front of the market.
JustEnoughDucks@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 115d
Having used it in the browser, it barely works in a browser. >50% of functionality is simply missing. Pretty much only the very very basics of typing and formatting.
I also use libreoffice and actually like calc better than excel because python support ia a first class citizen for programming within the spreadsheet in Calc, but AFAIK macro spreadsheets aren't very cross compatible, but I guess I work in engineering so every company I have worked with or for uses excel macros, probably not representative of other professions.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 116d
The grapuh of Linux suitability as a function of user skill is a U. At the bottom of user skill, you've got your aunt who needs a Chrome bootloader. Linux is perfect for them, maybe better than Windows.
As you get into the middle, you get into "I just need to use Photoshop" or "I just want to play Valorant". It's gotten to where software that doesn't run on Linux is a deliberate choice, but they're still out there. Gaming has been easing up in large part due to Valve, so the middle of the U has been rising, but it's still a big dip.
At the top end you've got the computer science types developing all these internet and AI based systems almost all of which run on Linux servers in the back end. Linux dominates literally every computing platform except desktops.
hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 116d
Very good analogy, only would say there's a wide range of creative people who are stuck with windows/mac because of compatibility in their field. They can be quite highly skilled but you can't escape the industry standards.
Nikelui@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 116d
Luckily Adobe seems hell-bent on self-destructing, that should help.
wltr@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 116d
Oh yeah, it does help indeed. After I got used to Gimp, I don’t think I’d ever want to open Photoshop. For my personal tasks that’s 100%.
iopq@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 115d
I got so used to PS UI I can't figure out Gimp. That's why I use Krita
wltr@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 115d
The UI is the worst I’ve ever seen, but you can use PhotoGimp
Nikelui@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
Have you tried this?
https://photogimp.com/
zealouscurmedgeon@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 116d
My school system had thin clients running CentOS growing up and nobody had issues.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 115d
Gaming is better on Linux than Windows now. I said what I said.
bilb@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 115d
If you don't play some of the big multiplayer games, definitely.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 115d
And that's an artificial limitation. The game would work fine if they didn't go to extra effort to hamper it; so the technical hurdles have been overcome.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 115d
It's been so long that I've gamed on Windows that I'll have to take your word for it.
HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml · 71 pts · 115d
Not surprising, the venn diagram of people who would buy a Framework (or even know it exists) and people who would choose an open source OS (or even know they exist) overlaps quite a bit, I imagine.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 115d
True. Still, it seems like a significant enough milestone for Linux.
CodenameDarlen@lemmy.world · 61 pts · 116d
galaxy_nova@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 116d
True, but don’t they also sell a no os edition?
fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 22 pts · 116d
Not anymore. Ubuntu replaced the no OS option.
Also curiously the only Windows option is Pro. Before you had Home or Pro.
INeedANewUserName@piefed.social · 22 pts · 116d
Because no one anywhere should be using Windows Home for anything. It is bad enough with group policy I shudder to think without.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 116d
It's only Windows and None, they've replaced the pre-installed Ubuntu with an installation guide.
From FAQ:
IronKrill@lemmy.ca · 17 pts · 116d
Not quite, no. Their DIY edition displays the options as you show, but if you select prebuilt then the options include Ubuntu.
I assume with DIY they offer Windows only as a quick way to acquire a license, it may not even be installed. Not sure if anyone can confirm if they just throw in a Windows USB.
texture@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 116d
as a framework customer and a linux user im not a fan of that move. plenty of us want nothing to do with unbuntu
phonics@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 116d
When I was looking for laptops regular laptops came out cheaper. I couldn't justify the cost of a framework at the time.
halcyoncmdr@piefed.social · 16 pts · 116d
Yeah, they're not the cheapest but that's because of their goals.
Designing with reparability and upgradeability in mind means more bespoke parts which cost more versus existing component assemblies in the market. That means more costly tooling and development, with smaller production runs than say a company like HP or Dell (which also costs more).
They actually sell the components and parts at reasonable pricing, and more importantly... designed with end user repairs in mind. So instead of everything being soldered to the main oard, different components are on separate subboards that can be replaced or upgraded separately. And include easy repair guides, a screwdriver in the box, and even extra screws pre installed in the chassis when you inevitably lose one.
Where possible, newer hardware they release can still be used on older models. Sometimes working 100%, sometimes with some limited capability depending on older system limitations. For instance, they just updated the 16" model and added an RTX 5070 GPU option, which you can purchase separately and pop into your old Framework 16 without needing to get a whole new system. Likewise, the same with the new mainboard/CPU in your old chassis. Or the new Laptop 13 2.8K Touchscreen which can be installed in every previous Laptop 13 model other than the Chromebook.
Very few laptop manufacturers get close to that kind of repairability and upgradeability, and that does come with a cost.
flx@feddit.org · 49 pts · 116d
does not surprise me. Framework appeals to users, who love DIY. The same applies for Linux.
If you‘re not into Linux/DIY, MacBook gives you a much better offering for the same price. If you‘re a masochist wanting Windows, you simply have smooth other options for lower price.
Holytimes@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 116d
Honestly I'm surprised they ever didn't have a Linux first stance. Its literally the perfect fucking user base for em.
Wfh@lemmy.zip · 22 pts · 116d
They always were Linux-friendly. Some hardware choices like the fingerprint reader were directly related to Linux compatibility. Firmware and UEFI updates have always been available on Linux. They sponsor a lot of FOSS projects (some of them unfortunately linked to nazi dipshits, stirring a lot of controversy, but 99% of them are clean).
They may not have explicitely advertised Linux before, but they dropped a lot of hints.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 116d
When they started out, Linux had a lot less mindshare than it has now. Also Microsoft will absolutely retaliate against you, if you promote anything but their crapware. For a small manufacturer that can be a problem.
Dima@feddit.uk · 14 pts · 116d
They've always designed around ensuring good Linux support with their component choices and support of fwupd, but their marketing focused on being repairable and upgradable, unlike companies like System76, who explicitly sell their laptops as Linux laptops. It seems they've recently started advertising their Linux support more, possibly due to their partnership to have Ubuntu pre-installed, possibly due to seeing just how many Linux users they already had or possibly due to the number of people switching from Windows to Linux.
sleepmode@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 115d
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 115d
If you like to DIY why are you using a framework instead of a briefcase PC?
MithranArkanere@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 115d
And they say Microslop only does bad things lately. What do you call more people switching to Linux to avoid their enshitification, if not a good thing?
inari@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 115d
It's like Trump "helping" the oil industry
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 37 pts · 115d
Framework computers aren't really targeted at the average consumer.
It makes sense that the kind of people who value hardware which they can easily and freely maintain and upgrade also value software which they can easily and freely maintain and upgrade.
For sure Linux being a free option vs Windows being a paid for one also helps.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 115d
Tbh the shocker for me was people buying Framework laptops with Windows on them at all...? Wut?
CriticalMiss@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 115d
Businesses that have to be complaint with industry standards are unfortunately stuck using Win or MacOS
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 115d
Quite well aware, as in, more aware than I want to be lol - but why would these be buying Framework tho? Overlap of folks wanting a Framework laptop at orgs forced to use (only) Windows, at orgs willing to then buy Framework laptops seems real small. And I mean, buying it with Windows installed does suggest what you're saying.
So hey, I'm wrong about a lot, such is life lol, maybe it makes sense.
meldrik@lemmy.wtf · 4 pts · 115d
We order DIY Framework 13 for work. Assemble them ourselves, install Windows and import it into Intune.
If we could, we would use them with Linux.
Why buy Framework? The 13 price is pretty much on par with other laptops. We get easily replaceable ports and people get to choose exactly which ports they want. Easy repairs and instead of “throwing out” the laptop, it can get an upgrade. Sustainability.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 114d
That's rad, thanks for filling me in!
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 114d
I'm also halfway trying to talk myself into taking the plunge (admittedly not with windows, I spent a good bit of my career locked into it and I'm done lol).
You seem open to share some details, by which I mean, I feel less potentially rude to ask - care to share how long you've been working with em (the Frameworks)? And any details therein, how it's been, any frustrations?
Longevity matters a lot to me, at least in the medium term (and it's not lost that me buying their ish would help them do that in a tiny way lol), so I'm gun-shy. My current approach is simply to buy old business class Dell things for my household, there's ~no chance I'll find myself unable to buy parts cheaply. I do also treasure giving old machines further life, very sustainable, feels good.
Whatcha think? Time for me to upgrade my approach (slowly 😅), or best to wait it out a bit and see what develops?
meldrik@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 113d
The first few Framework laptops were bought back in 2024. About 30 people have a Framework now, while the rest has Lenovo’s.
Nothing but issues with Lenovo. They even have a built-in reset button on the bottom for when they freeze and not even the power button works… They are between 2-4 years old. The USB-C ports in all of them are trash.
No issues with any Framework’s so far, except one had an issue with connecting to a TV through a Lenovo dock.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 113d
Thanks!
CriticalMiss@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 115d
I can’t tell you for sure, but Framework does have a business team and they seem to support automatic onboarding with Intune Autopilot too. One usecase that came into my mind is that when employees demand a new computer because theirs feel slow the tech can just drop in the board into a new chassis, reinstall the OS and the marketing guy is none the wiser. Plus, frameworks are cheaper in the long run.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 114d
Hell yeah.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 115d
Though one would expect such technically inclined users to install the OS themselves. When I bought my 16 I bought "no OS" because while Fedora (which I knew would be installed) was an option I wanted FDE and so I chose to install it myself. It's possible many of these were first time linux users who wanted the savings but also the ease of buying with a pre-installed OS.
ApertureUA@lemmy.today · 37 pts · 116d
Company when marketing works
treadful@lemmy.zip · 33 pts · 116d
I'm so happy Framework appears to be doing well.
I've already replaced the keyboard of my 5yo OG 13 and plan to Frankenstein this thing as long as I can. I secretly hope the mainboard fails so I'm forced to upgrade.
Maybe after RAM prices recover...
sunstoned@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 115d
Be careful what you wish for... My i7-1260p failed a few months ago.
I will say though, upgrading to an
ai340 is a serious quality of life upgrade in terms of gpu and battery life. Even the NPU is useful now with the latest drivers and kernel modules.Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 115d
I wonder how many would just do it for the extra discount and then use massgrave
Edit:
I went to watch their prices for the diy series
(Preinstalled, is +220 € for win 11 pro or free Ubuntu, can't get win home edition if preinstalled)
Jiral@lemmy.org · 9 pts · 115d
Who knows. Their target group is usually perfectly capable of installing an OS themselves. But Framework is also a popular hardware brand among Linux users, because their hardware is already built with Linux in mind. If you look at their forum, it does not feel like everyone is just installing Windows on their hardware.
MithranArkanere@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 115d
Even if you want Windows, it's still better to get that edition that works just the same but has most of the bloat cut off, that they made for small business computers.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 115d
If you don't join a domain, win11 pro will automatically install all the sponsored stuff exactly like win11 home at first login. There's no difference in the two editions except only the pro can join a domain. Exactly same level of bloat, even if it's more expensive
bilb@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 114d
There are some other features only in pro, like Hyper-V for instance.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 114d
Ah right
MithranArkanere@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 109d
Oh, no. Not pro. The one for stuff like ticket dispensers.
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 31 pts · 116d
Another sign its The Year Of Linux. Yes I said it. Someone had to!
GamingChairModel@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 115d
Desktop Linux is seeing higher and higher market share, not just because Linux is growing but also because the desktop mode of computing is shrinking, especially for personal use. There are lots of people who used to own laptops/desktops but don't anymore.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 115d
Yeah. This is something I've been trying to explain for a while. Between the Steam Deck and the declining overall market share of PCs, there's a huge jump in Linux as far as percentage of users goes, but it isn't actually making significant waves in general usage. Regular users are sticking with Windows and Mac, but now there's 1 Windows or Mac laptop in a household shared by everyone now versus multiple laptops and a desktop a few hardware cycles back.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 115d
There are still a lot of Chromebooks kicking around, too. And those are technically Linux.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 115d
Year of the Linux PC, it's just us left, everyone else is using the ID and facial scan parts of the internet.
viov@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
Well let's keep helping people switch over to Linux and to use Windows 10 debloated of they really need it too
whoisearth@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 115d
Can it also be the summer of George? Lol
VAK@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 116d
Wow, I was surprised that their release video leaned so much into Linux. They said that this is a response to user feedback. That reminded me of when there was a lot of ask for one-handable phone but their sales were too small. So glad to see it has paid off for framework.
tun@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 116d
CEO said "it is MacBook for Linux"
Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 115d
Hopefully they keep the repairability, unlike Apple.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 115d
It's built with a lot of off the shelf components and the schematics for the parts that aren't are open source. So even if they stopped tomorrow, the stuff they've already sold will always be repairable.
save_the_humans@leminal.space · 3 pts · 115d
Finally. There's barely any other laptop that measures up to the build quality of a Mac.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 116d
Pressures change when you are still niche. Apple and Google sell devices to show ads. Bigger screens, more ads.
iopq@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 115d
I bought a Pixel Fold because when closed it's a one handed device. I mostly use the inner screen when traveling so I don't need to bring a tablet
popekingjoe@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 116d
I can't wait to be able to buy the chassis so I can drop my existing 13 mainboard in. That black chassis is sexy.
ygurin@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 116d
Heads up if you are replacing the bottom part of the chassis for the pro version you also need to buy the new pro battery, audio adapter and the new pro speakers as the old ones are not compatible
popekingjoe@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 116d
I am absolutely aware, since I want the larger battery, better track pad, and speaker setup.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 115d
Old battery works in new chassis, but new battery doesn't work in old chassis.
ygurin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 115d
I'm not sure see this reddit response from a Framework representative https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1ss5zib/comment/ohpkqh1/
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 115d
Interesting. In the video with the CEO and the product manager, they specifically called out that the old battery is compatible with the new chassis but not the inverse. I wonder what the deal is there.
ygurin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 115d
Can you show me the video and Timestamp evidence of this please. In this Youtube video Timestamp 11:14 they swap out the main-boards, the old main-board is compatible with the new battery, I don't see them mention that the old battery can be dropped into the new bottom chassis.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 116d
HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 116d
I recently bought a used alienware x14 r1 from a co-worker but if I hadn't I would have picked up one of these if I knew about the company. The configurability (and upgradability) is very appealing to me.
One of these will be my next laptop I think.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 9 pts · 115d
windows is extra no?
this_1_is_mine@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 116d
GOOD GOOOD!
aim4harmony@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 116d
As a Linux newb, I'm happy to read this. I hope that my next pc is clean from Microslop from the get go.
zealouscurmedgeon@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 116d
I was so disgusted setting up Windows the last time I had to do so. The installation process was just upselling/shoving adware. And now every other update bricks your pc.
giacomo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 116d
is the hardware different somehow?
Quibblekrust@thelemmy.club · 17 pts · 116d
Different than what? You mean between Linux and Windows? No, but you can have them pre-install an OS of your choice.
fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 116d
The chassis is the only real difference. The boards are all compatible.
The core 300 series Intel board might be exclusive to it for now, but they said it's compatible with the old chassis so it's just that they just don't offer the board separately yet.No wait they have a listing for it so I'm just blind. https://frame.work/products/laptop13pro-mainboard-intel-ultra-3?v=FRANJZ0007Did they ever post sales figures for no OS vs Windows? You can't assume no OS = Linux, but considering the target demographic I bet 80% of them planned on using Linux on it.
popcar2@programming.dev · 1 pts · 116d
This has more to do with the Windows frameworks costing an extra $140. I'm sure a lot of people will just buy it with Linux and then 'obtain' Windows on their own.
ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -10 pts · 116d
Yay, yet another tech company funding racists and transphobes is doing well :/
houjou@jlai.lu · 7 pts · 116d
Could I have some context on this please?
halcyoncmdr@piefed.social · 19 pts · 116d
One of several open source projects they're helping fund happens to be run by a person like that. They're funding is because of the open source project, but some people are very vocal that they'd rather the project not exist at all, and post about it every chance they get.
It's like how some vegans can't help but tell you loudly and at every opportunity that they're vegan. Or some of the more insufferable Linux users in general. Venn diagram is probably a near circle with that linux group actually.
FOSS is a pretty small community in the grand scheme, if you avoided any project run by an objectionable individual, you couldn't run much of anything.
There's been plenty of posts about this particular issue all over if you go looking for it. I'd recommend doing your own research on whether you have a problem with it, and not rely on just a couple random commenters here, myself included.
meldrik@lemmy.wtf · 8 pts · 116d
Read this blog post:
Framework does not sponsor Omarchy. They sponsor Hyprland, which is mentioned in the blog post and Rails World, a conference that DHH is part of.
List of projects sponsored by Framework:
olafurp@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 116d
They sent money to DHH, creator of Ruby and gave some lip service to his Omarchy OS. They were defending it with some big tent statements which didn't go super well with the ones that had a bad opinion of him. DHH has great replacement theory views which is concerning and blogs about it.
Their Arch based Hyprland stuff was overblown though since it was just one weird mod and didn't reflect the project's leadership opinions.
radieschen@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 115d
Gardiner Bryant did a video on this: https://video.4d2.org/w/rPMMDnLBA4kVmScBD6w9K5
eleijeep@piefed.social · 1 pts · 116d
https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/75986
https://crimier.github.io/posts/Framework-Omarchy/
pseudo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
I would add links to some of the conclusions in that same gargantuan thread:
https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/75986/1630
https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/75986/629
ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 116d
They support and fund DHH
meldrik@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 116d
You mean Rails World?
ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 115d
Same guy, but no, I was referring to Omarchy and DHH himself.
pseudo@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 115d
The present tense "support" is not true. If unintentional, probably best to edit the reply?
ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 115d
I'd be happy to if I could find any evidence it were true.
pseudo@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 115d
That's not how it works, right? You make the accusation; so you provide the evidence.
The claim implied in the present tense is that their relationship with DHH (insofar as there was one) is still ongoing.
ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 115d
I'm not in the habit of assuming companies that knowingly supported bigots, the benefit of the doubt. If there isn't a clear, loud and non ambiguous walking back of their clear, loud and unambiguous support, then why would you, I or anyone else assume they have done so?
pseudo@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 115d
Because... of the paper trail? Rails World 2026 sponsorships are up and they are not in; they haven't retweeted Omarchy rices since October; and... I admit, I can't be sure they haven't sent him another computer. Which — as you know — concludes the exhaustive trifecta of clear, loud and unambiguous support for bigots.
But you, I, and everyone else knows it's not about what they do materially. As someone in a related thread actually put in writing, they ought to "denounce, when questioned".
Meh.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 115d
i dislike how those of us who aren't okay with this are just supposed to get on board because "big tent." nazis operate by getting their foot in the door and acting respectable. then after a little bit, suddenly they've taken the whole place over. it's what they do with bars, it's what they do with music scenes, it's what they've done with past open source projects, it's what they did with the Reform Party in the united states. i need people to stop making room for nazis as long as they behave themselves
pseudo@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 115d
DHH is a an ethno-nationalist and a racist, I'll grant that.
Care to support the transphobes angle with evidence? Or does it work like an honorary title?
ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 115d
Interesting that you chose to be passive aggressive and get your back up at the the idea that he's transphobic, rather than simply asking for evidence...
In any case, he did an article on his blog celebrating Abigail Shrier and her transphobic Irreversible Damage book. I'm not going to link to his blog, but if you want to find it, it was posted in March 2024
pseudo@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 115d
As I remembered, he positively reviewed a different book by her (Bad Therapy), which deals with parenting, and not with trans issues. Looking again (not happily), he does mention Irreversible Damage — but in passing, in an ambivalent way.
I think he never broached that particular topic, but I don't have the stomach to go over DHH's writing and check in detail. So you might be right.