apt is meant more for user interaction and apt-get is more stable and more for scripting. But apt-get is often used in online tutorials because it doesn't really change.
I think it wasn't for APT but I once worked for a business with a lot of RHEL, the script that was updating hundreds of servers was using the user wrapper instead of the binaries. A warning was displayed in the script to warn not to use the wrapper for scripts.
I warned my team leader of the issue and was completely ignored and was said that it was an issue for the team that made the script in the first place.
I gave up.
A few weeks later, the poorly designed script botched a major update on hundred of servers because the wrapper had a tiny change and the update script didn't handle it well.
It's insane to me how much money a business can waste for stupid shit like that. The devs warned us not to use their wrapper to script on, the linux team did it anyway, my warning was ignored, many hours of engineers work was wasted fixing the chaos that ensued.
C’mon, it’s Debian! Obsolete anyway. Update today, upgrade in a week, not like things gonna change. Perhaps the man forgot the upgrade a week ago, upgraded, and then decided to double-check there’s nothing new anyway. Right?
I just want to share that last semester, the Windows podium computer we used decided randomly to update during a student presentation. It did not help their nerves, but I did turn it into a chance to evangelize Linux.
And no, they can't use their own laptop, the connections to the podium computer, and thus the projector, use VGA...
Yes but it's generally easier and less prone to issues to just open their PowerPoint (or really, Google sheets) on the podium since I'm already using it. I'm sure the admin uses adapters as their excuse not to update the hardware though... (even if they are still using Win 11 on decades old computers).
Yes, same; the real solution is Linux podium with an adapter in every room by default. But that's not happening anytime soon, lol.
Technically it's not the projector with the issue either, the podium is more or less a very fancy hub with a monitor built in. I feel like the adapter could just be built in if necessary, lol.
I have had windows users tell me that a projector needs a usb adapter. While HDMI worked perfectly fine and I even got crazy high resolution (after configuring it myself in KDE)
Linux noob here. Just upgraded hardware and reinstalled Windows and Linux on the gaming computers and even though I'm a complete Linux beginner, 9 out of 10 software issues were with windows! I couldn't believe a gazzilion dollar company with thousands of employees still couldn't get it right?
I reinstalled Windows 11 a while ago because of a software I struggled to get working on Linux (the adobe installer patches for WINE have since resolved that) and I had no idea how annoying the installation process is. You had to babysit it, and tell it your life's story. Not to mention the amount of times it asked me to sign up for MS 365 and OneDrive. In the end, it enabled OneDrive anyway, despite me telling it to sod off at least half a dozen times.
And that's just the install process. Using it is another beast entirely. Why do I need to accept a UAC prompt just to open a browser? Why does the browser need to update itself every time I boot the OS?
Why do I have to hunt all over the internet for basic stuff that should come with the OS itself? Even when I used an NVidia card I didn't have to faff around with some stupid third party software to handle drivers, it was just there. Sure it broke all the time because NVidia is a garbage company, but it was right there!
Wait but that means your computer will stay on if the update fails, right?
If it was && then the second command would only run if the first command was successful.
But @vodka@feddit.org wrote only one & which instead means the first command will run in the background and the second will execute at the same time... which does not seem like a good idea in this case 😅
Less options and it expects user input, so when you update and there's a changelog or warning, it shows it to you and you can read it. It doesn't continue because it thinks you're there reading it. The options and output are subject to change, so you don't want it in a script. Apt-get will always have the same options and expected output for automation purposes.
Apart from letting you read the changelog, I would call it less of a "good for humans" but "bad for scripting". Maybe it's just me, but less options was never a good quality in my books
thats only if it actually downloads and installs. our enterprise windows installs like to take 5-10 attempts to actually get the software onto the computer. "Install failed. retry?"
Not exactly correct. They are releasing their hot patch service more broadly. These are updates that would normally require a restart no longer need to be restarted.
Just like Linux though, if you didn’t want to restart after updating you never really were forced to.
sorry, usage of this tool has been discontinued, please use [WORSE TOOL WITH DIFFERENT NAME]
(joking but not really, gemini-cli is going to the google graveyard, replaced by antigravity-cli that's basically the same, but in google's tradition it launches with less features and also it's not FOSS)
Discover is integrated with the rest of Plasma, so if you run your upgrades via Discover on Plasma, it'll use Plasma settings. The same goes if you update with the little button in Plasma's taskbar
As someone who works on Windows daily... this is so true. One of the things that really annoys me with Windows is being able to reliably do updates. Running any of the update stuff, seems more like a suggestion and if Windows deems your request worthy, it might SLOWLY do something.
Aaaand... you're on Debian, so Blender 4.0 just got added to the testing branch. (Blender 4.0 still haven't been tested for 168 hours of continuous running without touching it)
It's a good thing system packages (which should follow a conservative update approach if possible to guarantee system stability, unless hardware demands newer packages) and user applications (which you'd usually want to be most up-to-date) are increasingly isolated from each other and mostly able to follow their own schedules. Also improves security and such.
On Fedora live update is turned of by default with a warning saying updating without rebooting is not recommended. As a cautious noob, I left it as is. Too cautious?
No. Fedora sometimes updates configs or packages (e.g. kernel) that require a reboot to take advantage of. If you're a linux veteran you can decide by yourself if or if not you need to reboot. But fedora wants to have a stable and smooth experience for all its users.
I'm probably a big newb, but on my headless Debian machines, major updates screw me up sometimes too.
"Ah! All my updates can't be found on the server? Oh we're done with "Bo-Peep" and moving to "PotatoHead" now? Maybe I should be on the newsletter or something..."
Change some sources in that one text file I gotta look up every time...
apt update && apt dist-upgrade "Oh, that's a lot of errors..."
I'm sure it's not that bad and I'm being dramatic but I do kinda appreciate my rolling OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for this reason lol. I feel like newbies would struggle with that major release upgrade process...
Ironically I had numerous discussions with people claiming updates often break rolling distros like Arch, and I'm in the same boat as you - only ever had issues with major upgrades on Debian
Haha, I'm seriously wondering if there's not some kind of script we're supposed to run first that's like "Okay, new stable release now. Fetch and replace the latest repos!" Maybe in the desktop environment?
At least like with most things, Linux Mint I remember being so easy to upgrade to a whole new release right there in that universal update program. I don't have to worry about that tangling up anyone I set up with it. It actually feels exciting hahaha.
All that being said: Rolling or point release or whatever -- SET UP SNAPSHOTS. YOU'RE WELCOME. o_o hahaha
Winget is a step in the right direction... but man it is SO SLOW. If PowerBI Desktop has an update, it is actually taking me 20+ minutes to update a handful of apps.
My first introduction to winget as a sysadmin was horrible. Why Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make winget reliant on the user environment still baffles me. Why on earth would they require admin rights for some commands if you need to have logged into the system once?! Even the user created for LAPS does not have that requirement!
Even getting it to run through a service on system level requires you to find the nondescript directory of the executable (which may or may not he the same on other devices!) To get basic functionality going. But even with the --ignore-unknown flag (because it is not able to determine the version of packages when run through a service) winget will refuse to update without a user environment.
It's not nothing, and the effort is commendable. Def more than three. Dare I say it's even more than five.
Yet, in a grand scheme of things, it's indistinguishable from three.
Not a built-in, of course, but chocolatey gets you Linux-like package manager behavior on Windows. With it you can run headless software installs and automatically update software. It's great for remote/VM management.
I used chocolatey for a while on windows. I did like it, but due to some of the fussiness with it I found it was just better to put up with crappy .exe files
I have no artistic skills so freebie: Arch is like Russian roulette where the odds are good but there is still a non-zero chance some update is going to shit the bed. I don't even know how to convey that in meme form either.
It's clear why many Windows users won't switch to Linux, when people show them they'd need to use strange IT tools to use it. While, annoying, Windows doesnt need you to be an IT nerd. Linux doesn't either, but to people outside of the Linux bubble, this is how it gets presented. That Windows update sure looks easier than some manual hack.
To a non IT person who hasn't heard of apt, needing to start the update manually, and needing type some magic words in precisely, is the worst it can get.
That is not the barrier. Most people stick to defaults and don't know how to install an OS. When any person switches, they will try to learn an adapt. If it is a shitty experience, they will switch back to defaults. Updating your system through command line is not a shitty experience.
Absolutely but it is not easy. It needs to have several layers of abstraction by hiding what packages are being updated and auto approving themselves without prompting for password. There should be an automatic rollback mechanism in place in case an update goes bad. Some programs will need to auto-update themselves as users would expect like google chrome, firefox — which I don’t think we currently have other than steam. Otherwise if a person skips an update, they will leave their system vulnerable to the security bugs in browsers.
you will, sure, but no not everyone will. think less on tech savvy people and more on those that know that "the Internet is the big blue e when I turn on the computer (their monitor)"
those people outnumber us tech savvy individuals at least two-to-one and they deserve an OS that is easier to use then memorizing command line commands
Only tech savvy people will actually install an OS. Unless you put a “Install OS” button on the keyboard most people will never switch. So they will probably never use Linux because the idea of switching defaults is scary because it is not “officially supported” by the manufacturer. Using the terminal is not a big deal. Most people can learn and adapt very easily, it’s not rocket science. The official defaults mindset is a barrier.
If we want Linux to grow, we need it to be installed by default on major hardware.
deserve an OS that is easier to use
Mint, Zorin, Ubuntu. They exist and have existed for a long time. They simply are not the default OS on any major piece of hardware.
Until Google neglects to update Google Earth and your entire system update gets hung on a no-digest error so you have to either uninstall Google Earth or run a custom update command that skips it every single time. 😩
Why is the screen black after the login screen for multiple minutes, after which it continues to function as expected and shows the DE like everything is fine??
Another low-effort, inaccurate meme. A true comparison would be if you replaced the first screenshot with an image of someone clicking the update button.
I don’t mind criticising Windows but go after the genuine reasons for moving to Linux. No spyware, no AI forced on you etc.
The true comparison is someone getting into work at 7am to work on a project due for a meeting at 10am and two of those hours are waiting for a mandatory Windows update to install.
I think they got rid of the mandatory updates, tho, largely because the updates were breaking the OS...
but anyway, I think the meme might be pointing at the issue of consent.
Honestly, the only troubles I have had beside non-working Nvidia drivers was the dependency-resolver taking forever before aborting due to too many unresolved dependencies. full-resolver takes care of that.
Dialogues? Yes to inform you that some services won't work until a restart & you are currently using them (e.g. X)
Warning about overwriting config files? Only if you are an advanced enough user to have modified them by hand, and if the update requires a new base configuration.
It can happen to others too. When I used Raspbian, two times (iirc) the upgrade process to the new major version broke while installing libc and so the system was bricked afterwards.
I think I read somewhere that the recomended upgrade process is to reinstall the system. How bad must updates be implemented in this case?
This never happens to me when running distros based on Debian stable or Ubuntu, unless it's time for the major version update every 0.5-3 years. Even then, these days everything just keeps working after the reboot. Issues only really arise when you start messing with Debian sid, testing or frankendebian/frankenubuntu.
Lol, apt changes your system in place and is pretty likely to break it.
Atomic upgrades are fast and reliable.
But windows updates break FAR less than a messy package based distro does, especially if you actually have package changes (i.e. not a stable distro, or a version upgrade)
185 Comments
7uWqKj@lemmy.world · 227 pts · 61d
Update first, then upgrade
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 75 pts · 61d
Good catch. Haven’t been using apt in some time.
sudo pacman -SyuBroadfern@lemmy.world · 56 pts · 61d
aketawi@quokk.au · 26 pts · 61d
Ooops@feddit.org · 32 pts · 61d
Is it even
apt-getstill? thought they changed over toaptlong ago andapt-getis just a symlink for legacy reasons.At least that's what I last read... (speaking as someone also loving candy) .
truthfultemporarily@feddit.org · 25 pts · 61d
apt is a wrapper over the apt- binaries (apt-search apt-cache etc).
MsFlammkuchen@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 29 pts · 61d
aptis meant more for user interaction andapt-getis more stable and more for scripting. Butapt-getis often used in online tutorials because it doesn't really change.Tetsuo@jlai.lu · 22 pts · 61d
I think it wasn't for APT but I once worked for a business with a lot of RHEL, the script that was updating hundreds of servers was using the user wrapper instead of the binaries. A warning was displayed in the script to warn not to use the wrapper for scripts.
I warned my team leader of the issue and was completely ignored and was said that it was an issue for the team that made the script in the first place.
I gave up.
A few weeks later, the poorly designed script botched a major update on hundred of servers because the wrapper had a tiny change and the update script didn't handle it well.
It's insane to me how much money a business can waste for stupid shit like that. The devs warned us not to use their wrapper to script on, the linux team did it anyway, my warning was ignored, many hours of engineers work was wasted fixing the chaos that ensued.
q5VtXnYt@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 60d
huquad@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 60d
It runs so much faster if you do upgrade first \s
barnaclebutt@lemmy.world · 113 pts · 61d
Update before upgrade you nonce
wltr@discuss.tchncs.de · 35 pts · 60d
C’mon, it’s Debian! Obsolete anyway. Update today, upgrade in a week, not like things gonna change. Perhaps the man forgot the upgrade a week ago, upgraded, and then decided to double-check there’s nothing new anyway. Right?
diabetic_porcupine@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 60d
Colonel_Panic_@eviltoast.org · 11 pts · 60d
No, no. You gotta update last to let them marinate for a while before you upgrade. If you upgrade too fast it just doesn't taste the same.
y0kai@anarchist.nexus · 1 pts · 59d
i agree not as tender
iopq@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 60d
Isn't this how Non-Torvalds Linus bricked his install
taiyang@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 61d
I just want to share that last semester, the Windows podium computer we used decided randomly to update during a student presentation. It did not help their nerves, but I did turn it into a chance to evangelize Linux.
And no, they can't use their own laptop, the connections to the podium computer, and thus the projector, use VGA...
Tetsuo@jlai.lu · 16 pts · 61d
Not that it matters much but isn't there cheap adapters to/from VGA?
taiyang@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 61d
Yes but it's generally easier and less prone to issues to just open their PowerPoint (or really, Google sheets) on the podium since I'm already using it. I'm sure the admin uses adapters as their excuse not to update the hardware though... (even if they are still using Win 11 on decades old computers).
Tetsuo@jlai.lu · 9 pts · 61d
Honestly, I would prefer if a video projector wasn't tossed as garbage if you can just buy a cheap adapter and put it in a box next to the podium.
We have enough electronic waste as it is!
taiyang@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 60d
Yes, same; the real solution is Linux podium with an adapter in every room by default. But that's not happening anytime soon, lol.
Technically it's not the projector with the issue either, the podium is more or less a very fancy hub with a monitor built in. I feel like the adapter could just be built in if necessary, lol.
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 60d
I have had windows users tell me that a projector needs a usb adapter. While HDMI worked perfectly fine and I even got crazy high resolution (after configuring it myself in KDE)
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 60d
Vga-hdmi adapters are trivial
ToiletFlushShowerScream@piefed.world · 26 pts · 61d
Linux noob here. Just upgraded hardware and reinstalled Windows and Linux on the gaming computers and even though I'm a complete Linux beginner, 9 out of 10 software issues were with windows! I couldn't believe a gazzilion dollar company with thousands of employees still couldn't get it right?
Dojan@pawb.social · 8 pts · 60d
I reinstalled Windows 11 a while ago because of a software I struggled to get working on Linux (the adobe installer patches for WINE have since resolved that) and I had no idea how annoying the installation process is. You had to babysit it, and tell it your life's story. Not to mention the amount of times it asked me to sign up for MS 365 and OneDrive. In the end, it enabled OneDrive anyway, despite me telling it to sod off at least half a dozen times.
And that's just the install process. Using it is another beast entirely. Why do I need to accept a UAC prompt just to open a browser? Why does the browser need to update itself every time I boot the OS?
Why do I have to hunt all over the internet for basic stuff that should come with the OS itself? Even when I used an NVidia card I didn't have to faff around with some stupid third party software to handle drivers, it was just there. Sure it broke all the time because NVidia is a garbage company, but it was right there!
mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 59d
This is what happens when app devs make the installer instead of system doing via package manager
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net · 21 pts · 60d
Or if you're me,
yay -Syuand wait 4 fucking hours (Because you barely ever remember to do it).solxix@pawb.social · 7 pts · 60d
Just
yaywould sufficewltr@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 60d
I do update my Arch each time it boots. Like a tiny tradition to me.
vodka@feddit.org · 4 pts · 60d
Doing
yay -Syu --noconfirm & shutdownwhenever I turn my machine off has been the solution for meThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 60d
vodka@feddit.org · 5 pts · 60d
Once a month or so yes!
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
kureta@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 60d
I reboot every time an update triggers mkinitcpio. Otherwise som kernel modules stop working.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 60d
Wait but that means your computer will stay on if the update fails, right?
vodka@feddit.org · 6 pts · 60d
It doesn't deserve the rest if it fails.
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 60d
If it was
&&then the second command would only run if the first command was successful.But @vodka@feddit.org wrote only one
&which instead means the first command will run in the background and the second will execute at the same time... which does not seem like a good idea in this case 😅vodka@feddit.org · 5 pts · 60d
Oh damn, yeah it was supposed to be &&, probably messed it up when arguing with the stupid phone keyboard adding spaces after symbols
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 60d
Thank you!
MrShankles@reddthat.com · 21 pts · 60d
Didn't know we were still doing apt-get
I have a lot to learn
Zink@programming.dev · 9 pts · 60d
iirc, apt-get is the version to use in scripts. They keep the input & output consistent so that it won't break things.
Regular old apt is for humans to use at the command prompt, and that's what I use all the time.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 60d
How is apt better for humans?
Cenzorrll@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 59d
Less options and it expects user input, so when you update and there's a changelog or warning, it shows it to you and you can read it. It doesn't continue because it thinks you're there reading it. The options and output are subject to change, so you don't want it in a script. Apt-get will always have the same options and expected output for automation purposes.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 59d
Apart from letting you read the changelog, I would call it less of a "good for humans" but "bad for scripting". Maybe it's just me, but less options was never a good quality in my books
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 60d
Yeah why do I still see this everywhere
nonfuinoncuro@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 60d
haven't used linux in decades but used to use aptitude over apt-get
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 61d
"Fun" fact: Windows is finally just now, in the year of our lord 2026, trying to release some updates as "live". As in not requiring reboot.
It's going better than you'd expect, but still far worse than they have any excuse for.
y0kai@anarchist.nexus · 14 pts · 61d
thats only if it actually downloads and installs. our enterprise windows installs like to take 5-10 attempts to actually get the software onto the computer. "Install failed. retry?"
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 61d
Odd, most companies don’t have problems with them.
Sequence5666@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
Cause the companies don’t install the updates, IT experts do. They do have problems with windows updates.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
Also, not true.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 61d
Not exactly correct. They are releasing their hot patch service more broadly. These are updates that would normally require a restart no longer need to be restarted.
Just like Linux though, if you didn’t want to restart after updating you never really were forced to.
wpb@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 59d
Order wrong.
Venat0r@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 59d
they need to make
apt get upgratethat does both in the right order...CorneliusTalmadge@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 59d
You are in luck because you can make this an alias (custom command) in your .bashrc file:
alias update='sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade'wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 16 pts · 60d
You misspelled
pacman -SyuAllero@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 60d
No, you misspelled
zypper dup. But with enough time, you'll get there.sacred_font@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 60d
I kneel
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 60d
That's a corporate propaganda that I can't stand for
Allero@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 59d
Take my angry upvote
Tortellinius@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 60d
The only true answer
HeHoXa@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 60d
Because I'm apparently a raging masochist
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 60d
(joking but not really, gemini-cli is going to the google graveyard, replaced by antigravity-cli that's basically the same, but in google's tradition it launches with less features and also it's not FOSS)
plutopos@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 60d
KDE Plasma recommends applying updates at reboot like Windows for stability. In fact, that is how it does them by default
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 12 pts · 60d
KDE Plasma does what I tell it to
plutopos@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 60d
Sure, what I'm saying is the "windows way" of applying updates isn't bad and there's a reason why they do it
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 60d
Bah!!
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
Feels aggressive sometimes
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 59d
It can be configured but out of the boxes users need to have updates forced on them. Otherwise they never update.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
And what he's saying is it's his life. It's now or never. No one's gonna live forever. He just wants to live while he's alive. It's. His. Life!
plutopos@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 60d
jesse, what the fuck are you talking about
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 60d
Someone who gets it 🥲
Jako302@feddit.org · 1 pts · 59d
Except that stability isn't the reason windows does its updates on restart, its a software limitation.
Windows doesn't have the ability to edit running files, it quite literally can't update the system without shutting everything down.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
Wait, plasma does your system updates? I don't think it's an appropriate chain of commands
plutopos@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 60d
Discover is integrated with the rest of Plasma, so if you run your upgrades via Discover on Plasma, it'll use Plasma settings. The same goes if you update with the little button in Plasma's taskbar
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 58d
Petty nitpick on my part, really, but I don't think of Discover as a part of Plasma.
plutopos@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 57d
Good call, very little is "part of" plasma strictly speaking
criss_cross@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 61d
twinnie@feddit.uk · 8 pts · 61d
This is the correct answer.
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 7 pts · 61d
There's dozens of us!
Evil_Shrubbery@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 60d
A few dozens at least!!
[happy zypper noises]
epyon22@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 61d
For those who are confident in their system setup
Gutek8134@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 60d
First thing I do on a new system using apt is aliasing this to "UpdateSystem" in .bashrc
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 59d
It's the other way around, but yes, very much yes
CaptPretentious@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 60d
As someone who works on Windows daily... this is so true. One of the things that really annoys me with Windows is being able to reliably do updates. Running any of the update stuff, seems more like a suggestion and if Windows deems your request worthy, it might SLOWLY do something.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 60d
Aaaand... you're on Debian, so Blender 4.0 just got added to the testing branch. (Blender 4.0 still haven't been tested for 168 hours of continuous running without touching it)
Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 60d
It's a good thing system packages (which should follow a conservative update approach if possible to guarantee system stability, unless hardware demands newer packages) and user applications (which you'd usually want to be most up-to-date) are increasingly isolated from each other and mostly able to follow their own schedules. Also improves security and such.
OldSageRick@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 61d
sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt full-upgrade && sudo apt autopurge
twinnie@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 61d
You forgot -y
IpsumLauren@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 61d
... && apt-get mooRichardNixos@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 61d
I thought it was dist-upgrade
user1234@fedinsfw.app · 1 pts · 61d
dist-upgrade has essentially been replaced by full-upgrade in the recent years.
Chee_Koala@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 61d
On Fedora live update is turned of by default with a warning saying updating without rebooting is not recommended. As a cautious noob, I left it as is. Too cautious?
swab148@startrek.website · 13 pts · 61d
Yeah, rebooting just makes sure that everything is using the new updated packages, so if you update then reboot you'll be golden
Reznik@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 61d
No. Fedora sometimes updates configs or packages (e.g. kernel) that require a reboot to take advantage of. If you're a linux veteran you can decide by yourself if or if not you need to reboot. But fedora wants to have a stable and smooth experience for all its users.
BiscuityCat@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 61d
It would be nice if they could do the update with a single reboot. It is annoying to type LUKS password multiple times.
fizzbang@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 60d
Every single time I’ve run upgrade on Debian, I’ve bricked my install. I’m sure I’m doing something wrong 😆
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 60d
I'm probably a big newb, but on my headless Debian machines, major updates screw me up sometimes too.
apt update && apt dist-upgrade"Oh, that's a lot of errors..."I'm sure it's not that bad and I'm being dramatic but I do kinda appreciate my rolling OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for this reason lol. I feel like newbies would struggle with that major release upgrade process...
Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 60d
Watch out! People in here looove Debian for some reason
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 60d
Haha Debian is really cool and I'm glad it's there! Definitely rock solid! Don't wanna throw any shade at their very important work. :)
...I'm just too goofy to update it properly sometimes. 😅 Skill issue lol.
Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 60d
Ironically I had numerous discussions with people claiming updates often break rolling distros like Arch, and I'm in the same boat as you - only ever had issues with major upgrades on Debian
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 59d
Haha, I'm seriously wondering if there's not some kind of script we're supposed to run first that's like "Okay, new stable release now. Fetch and replace the latest repos!" Maybe in the desktop environment?
At least like with most things, Linux Mint I remember being so easy to upgrade to a whole new release right there in that universal update program. I don't have to worry about that tangling up anyone I set up with it. It actually feels exciting hahaha.
All that being said: Rolling or point release or whatever -- SET UP SNAPSHOTS. YOU'RE WELCOME. o_o hahaha
fizzbang@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 60d
I love Debian ha!
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 60d
Yeah, you better watch what you say; Debian Gang got eyes on you.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 59d
Yeah don't mess with the Debian gang. They'll take forever to reach you but when they eventually do, they'll be ready. XD
SirActionSack@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 59d
This (actually Ubuntu when it was still mostly Debian) is why I am using Tumbleweed now.
Small upgrades often seems to work more reliably for me.
mlg@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 60d
dnf updateapt has the added irk of being split into update/upgrade plus apt-get for scripts.
And the default apt search sucks lol
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 60d
In Windows it would be
I'm pretty sure.
Jyek@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 60d
Winget update --all
But yes, this updates any packages distributed by Ms store and winget repos. As an IT professional, I love winget.
cygnus_sillius@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 60d
Winget is a step in the right direction... but man it is SO SLOW. If PowerBI Desktop has an update, it is actually taking me 20+ minutes to update a handful of apps.
Jyek@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 60d
I just like that it can be scripted and run during off hours.
Blemgo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 60d
My first introduction to winget as a sysadmin was horrible. Why Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make winget reliant on the user environment still baffles me. Why on earth would they require admin rights for some commands if you need to have logged into the system once?! Even the user created for LAPS does not have that requirement!
Even getting it to run through a service on system level requires you to find the nondescript directory of the executable (which may or may not he the same on other devices!) To get basic functionality going. But even with the --ignore-unknown flag (because it is not able to determine the version of packages when run through a service) winget will refuse to update without a user environment.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
Which will try to update all 3 apps that are available via winget. It will break one of them. It has 50% chance of bonking some drivers.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 60d
More than 3 apps. https://winget.run/
But Window's software incompatibility doesn't change anything.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
It's not nothing, and the effort is commendable. Def more than three. Dare I say it's even more than five.
Yet, in a grand scheme of things, it's indistinguishable from three.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 60d
If NT is given as much time as the Linux kernel has had to mature then I'm sure they'll have more packages built for it over the years.
tomkatt@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 59d
What does this even mean? Windows as an operating system has existed since 1985, and NT has been around since 1993. Linux initial release was 1991.
Microsoft has had all the time in the world.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 59d
If people use it then eventually it’ll have more than 4k packages for it.
crisis@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 59d
Install-Module PSWindowsUpdate
That will install the module required for Windows Update command line
mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 59d
Still doesnt update the system
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 8 pts · 60d
choco upgrade allNot a built-in, of course, but chocolatey gets you Linux-like package manager behavior on Windows. With it you can run headless software installs and automatically update software. It's great for remote/VM management.
einlander@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 60d
tordenflesk@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
scoop update
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 60d
I used chocolatey for a while on windows. I did like it, but due to some of the fussiness with it I found it was just better to put up with crappy .exe files
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 8 pts · 61d
Apt-get is unnecessary nowadays, just use apt, especially for simple commands like this.
Switorik@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 60d
Yay
kureta@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 60d
paru
ColdWater@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 59d
I autorun paru -Syyu while my computer is in the process of booting up /S
holo@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 60d
nixos-rebuild switch
going to nix from another distro like the leap from going from windows to linux
DragonOracleIX@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 60d
I'd rather switch back to Windows than try NixOS again. The immutable structure was far too rigid for me.
iopq@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 60d
I run an Ubuntu server and I make the history keep a lot of entries so I remember which files I changed
It shouldn't have to be like this
Remus86@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 60d
khanh@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 59d
he ran it in the wrong order 💔✌️
jaxxed@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 58d
Plus he couldbhave just used 'apt' one command.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 60d
..and while it's running I'll check my email and post something on lemmy!
edit: literally just did this to make sure it would work. Tbh it was a little balky.
red_tomato@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 61d
It’s all fun and games until you one day you see:
And it’s complaining about packages you’ve never heard of before.
y0kai@anarchist.nexus · 3 pts · 61d
sudo apt autoremove && sudo apt autopurge -y
DevDave@piefed.social · 5 pts · 59d
I have no artistic skills so freebie: Arch is like Russian roulette where the odds are good but there is still a non-zero chance some update is going to shit the bed. I don't even know how to convey that in meme form either.
iocase@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 59d
bacon_pdp@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 61d
ian@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 59d
It's clear why many Windows users won't switch to Linux, when people show them they'd need to use strange IT tools to use it. While, annoying, Windows doesnt need you to be an IT nerd. Linux doesn't either, but to people outside of the Linux bubble, this is how it gets presented. That Windows update sure looks easier than some manual hack.
BOplaid@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 57d
apt is NOT a manual hack
ian@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 57d
To a non IT person who hasn't heard of apt, needing to start the update manually, and needing type some magic words in precisely, is the worst it can get.
hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 61d
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 60d
Then windows says "Undoing Changes" because its shit software doesn't work
BartyDeCanter@piefed.social · 4 pts · 60d
topgradedjdarren@piefed.social · 4 pts · 60d
You're welcome.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 4 pts · 59d
You've heard of archinstall, now get ready for
archupdate
(it's an alias I made for "pacman -Syu")
certified_expert@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 59d
pacman "See you"
kionay@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 59d
The user interface on the left and the command prompt on the right does kinda highlight a barrier to mass Linux adoption.
if we want more people on Linux let's normalize not having to use the command line for everything.
regdog@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 59d
The left side says "Updates are happening, whether you want to or not" and the right side says "'Give me some updates, please"
kionay@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 59d
agreed, but this does not address what I said
sonofearth@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 59d
That is not the barrier. Most people stick to defaults and don't know how to install an OS. When any person switches, they will try to learn an adapt. If it is a shitty experience, they will switch back to defaults. Updating your system through command line is not a shitty experience.
Meatwagon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 59d
Some of the gen zers I come across can't even double click an icon on PC.
There's no reason not to have an update button somewhere.
sonofearth@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 59d
Absolutely but it is not easy. It needs to have several layers of abstraction by hiding what packages are being updated and auto approving themselves without prompting for password. There should be an automatic rollback mechanism in place in case an update goes bad. Some programs will need to auto-update themselves as users would expect like google chrome, firefox — which I don’t think we currently have other than steam. Otherwise if a person skips an update, they will leave their system vulnerable to the security bugs in browsers.
kionay@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 59d
who said there is only one barrier?
you will, sure, but no not everyone will. think less on tech savvy people and more on those that know that "the Internet is the big blue e when I turn on the computer (their monitor)"
those people outnumber us tech savvy individuals at least two-to-one and they deserve an OS that is easier to use then memorizing command line commands
sonofearth@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 59d
Only tech savvy people will actually install an OS. Unless you put a “Install OS” button on the keyboard most people will never switch. So they will probably never use Linux because the idea of switching defaults is scary because it is not “officially supported” by the manufacturer. Using the terminal is not a big deal. Most people can learn and adapt very easily, it’s not rocket science. The official defaults mindset is a barrier.
If we want Linux to grow, we need it to be installed by default on major hardware.
Mint, Zorin, Ubuntu. They exist and have existed for a long time. They simply are not the default OS on any major piece of hardware.
LuminousLuddite@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 61d
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 61d
I just post memes bud. Occasionally make them, but more often just repost them.
LuminousLuddite@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 61d
Jordan117@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
Until Google neglects to update Google Earth and your entire system update gets hung on a no-digest error so you have to either uninstall Google Earth or run a custom update command that skips it every single time. 😩
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 60d
sudo zypper dup
garbage_world@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 61d
lime@feddit.nu · 1 pts · 61d
transactional-update:)EpicFailGuy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
bash <(curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/BassT23/Proxmox/master/install.sh)
AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev · 2 pts · 60d
Ew
Imperious_melange@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 61d
IpsumLauren@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 61d
🤦♂️
apt-get dist-upgradeHazel@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 60d
sudo aptitude safe-upgradeatomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 60d
Should be all you need.
iocase@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 59d
I prefer Sudo Nala upgrade. It pulls updates before upgrading and does parallel downloads, saturating my 2GB download.
StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 60d
"why won't the screen turn on?"
Chee_Koala@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
Why is the screen black after the login screen for multiple minutes, after which it continues to function as expected and shows the DE like everything is fine??
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 58d
sudo apt install --only-upgrade --no-install-recommends "^vivaldi" "^firefox ^nano"Psiczar@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 60d
Another low-effort, inaccurate meme. A true comparison would be if you replaced the first screenshot with an image of someone clicking the update button.
I don’t mind criticising Windows but go after the genuine reasons for moving to Linux. No spyware, no AI forced on you etc.
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 60d
The true comparison is someone getting into work at 7am to work on a project due for a meeting at 10am and two of those hours are waiting for a mandatory Windows update to install.
I think they got rid of the mandatory updates, tho, largely because the updates were breaking the OS...
but anyway, I think the meme might be pointing at the issue of consent.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 60d
why cant people type anymore?
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 60d
Not everybody feels like memorizing undiscoverable magic phrases that might not be in a language they speak.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 60d
you will remember an entire language that has a spelling system so bad, that spelling words correctly is a BROASCASTED competition
Allero@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 60d
Then you'd also be pressed to show the same for Linux.
The only two reasons Linux updates are represented as terminal commands are that:
But in principle, app stores coming with most major Linux DEs can absolutely update your system at the push of a button.
Some distros, like Fedora, even allow you to update your UEFI straight from the app store. How's that to you, Windows?
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 60d
Apt is the wrong example here.
Me: update && upgrade
Apt:
##### 25%Apt: dialogue with kernel news
Apt:
###### 30%Apt: dialogue for reconfiguring abc
Apt: dialogue for reconfiguring xyz
Apt: want me to overwrite your critical config? yes/no/show differences
Apt:
################## 100%Me: reboot
PC: No Display Manager, no wifi, emergency shell
protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 60d
never happenwd to me
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 60d
Honestly, the only troubles I have had beside non-working Nvidia drivers was the dependency-resolver taking forever before aborting due to too many unresolved dependencies. full-resolver takes care of that.
Dialogues? Yes to inform you that some services won't work until a restart & you are currently using them (e.g. X)
Warning about overwriting config files? Only if you are an advanced enough user to have modified them by hand, and if the update requires a new base configuration.
BlueKey@fedia.io · 3 pts · 59d
It can happen to others too. When I used Raspbian, two times (iirc) the upgrade process to the new major version broke while installing libc and so the system was bricked afterwards.
I think I read somewhere that the recomended upgrade process is to reinstall the system. How bad must updates be implemented in this case?
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 60d
This never happens to me when running distros based on Debian stable or Ubuntu, unless it's time for the major version update every 0.5-3 years. Even then, these days everything just keeps working after the reboot. Issues only really arise when you start messing with Debian sid, testing or frankendebian/frankenubuntu.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 60d
only an issue if you CANNOT READ PAST A FIFTH GRADE LEVEL
iocase@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 59d
The irony that your comment will never reach its intended audience
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 59d
So Debian/Ubuntu still can't into auto update?
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · -11 pts · 60d
Lol, apt changes your system in place and is pretty likely to break it.
Atomic upgrades are fast and reliable.
But windows updates break FAR less than a messy package based distro does, especially if you actually have package changes (i.e. not a stable distro, or a version upgrade)
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · 4 pts · 60d
boiling water burns me but I still use it to cook
boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 60d
You use a water cooker or an electric stove I guess, also you probably use a pot and dont heat it up in your hands
Or something, that metaphor makes no sense