Well, in the past (and the present in many places) perpetual unrepayable debts were used as a way to implement slavery without calling it slavery. They call it debt peonage. You know, food for thought.
Short term it pads the companies books a bit more by adding an asset on top of the revenue. Medium term it's a perpetual impairment generator. The executives are just planning to cash out before the inevitable happens.
Because in the summer people run the AC more than they can afford and rack up like $300 bills when their off-summer average would normally be like $70. The loan programs are more like a deferred payment plan where they will cap the individual monthly payment at $150 or something, and then just push the surplus onto other future bills. Then usually when you close the account you owe them a bunch of money still, and that's when they start doing things like offering to set you up with loan services.
It's really not. What it does is trap these people in endless debt. Now we don't know any details about these loans, but there's no way in hell the customers aren't going to be paying fees and interest. A loan of $40 will be a loan of $100 the next month and so on. This is a way to make extra off of the people who have nothing.
In the corporate world, if you are taking on debt to fund operations, that's an indicator that your business is circling the drain. The same applies to personal finance.
I absolutely cannot figure this out. Isn't a kwh the same price for everyone? Why would a data center pay less? (I'm not asking anyone to justify the poor decisions of energy companies)
Same as with RAM prices. There is a limited supply and the datacenters are hogging it, possibly willing to pay extra because the entire bubble depends on MORE MORE MORE, or willing to bulk purchase the entire contingent in advance.
Now if you are a power supplier you find yourself in the comfortable position of being financially courted by the datacenter corps, and you have a captured audience of consumers who rely on you supplying them, who you can now justifiably bleed out, and if they cant pay you just sell it to the datacenter after all.
Capitalism is essentially based on the concept that everyone doing whatever they believe is in their best interest will magically balance itself out and achieve the most-efficient outcome, instead of the most self-serving and greedy criminals and psychopaths colluding to exploit and deceive the masses, accrue the lions share, and enslave everyone else.
It's basically a religiously-dogmatic mental illness that has no place beyond the 19th Century, but the criminals and psychopaths used their wealth to exploit and deceive the masses... so here we are. May the greediest psychopath win!
Definitely a smart move letting those power utilities be privatised, even a regulation forcing cost price power for residents would have been better than full privatisation. I'm so glad my state never got sucked into letting that happen here.
That’s because when supply outruns demand, surplus electricity is basically worthless and wholesalers need to pay someone to take it - we have long stretches of time, even during winter, where our domestic solar production saturates the demand, resulting in our Feed-in tariffs (what homes get paid for surplus production) has dropped to 1c/kWh, except for certain edge cases).
The bulk of the cost incurred is due to peak-energy generation (gas turbine, I believe?) ramping up to cover peak evening times.
These costs are aggregated and amortised over total demand, to balance out people’s energy bills.
This has been a bit of a tangent, but I found this interesting when I first learned it, and just wanted to share!
Folks who are saying the price is going up because of demand are technically right but it's kinda misleading. People get mad when they don't understand their bills so I wanna add to that:
With more demand in the system, more distribution equipment is used and will need more maintenance. Your electric bill has fixed fees and usage fees. The fixed fees include the cost of capital upgrades, which cover these costs. It's not a direct 1:1 cost for each connection, as the upstream feed capacity needs to increase too.
Cost per KW may go up too, it depends on the way your utility is set up. Time of day pricing is meant to encourage offsetting costs and sometimes large customers pay proportional to the contribution to peak demand.
It doesn't help that this increase in demand comes when so much of the grid is old as fuck in north america. But we live in interesting times.
Data centers forcing grid upgrades is all the more reason their rates should be higher. They should be paying 100% of those capital upgrade costs, too!
It may well be the same price for the data center too, but now that there's significantly more load on the network and there've been no changes to network capacity the price is being adjusted to reconcile the new demand with existing supply.
Everyone on the power exchange. Consumers don't pay the exchange price. They pay a premium to the company that transforms exchange power to household power on a virtual sheet of paper.
Clout. Aura. Bargaining force. Call it whatever you want, really. Corporations are big, they have capital, capital is power. They can hire people to influence politics, pushing for people who are on their side to get elected by funding campaigns, and naturally bribe people on the down low.
Stick, along with the other people served by their provider, most likely don't have the ability to pay people to lobby for them full time. Most people barely have the money to keep their personal economy going, and spend a significant portion of their time just making that happen. As a result, the corporations who are benefiting from this sit on all the power, because they can influence public opinion as well, painting their politics as beneficial to private individuals, even if that's a complete lie.
That is why democracy and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible. Workers could band together and claim power, but they're kept in situations where doing that just isn't feasible.
Things won't get better without some kind of revolution. The balance of power is tipped so far in favour of the corporations that no matter how much time or money workers spend (neither of which we have) trying to better things, they'll never get even close to what the corpos can swing with.
It's more that everyone pays more including the data center even. It could also be related to non-generation costs such as building additional distribution infra which can be regulated as a shared cost even though the data center pays for all extra generation.
Or a group of people willing to look to the future when corporstions won't .... dissolve the corporations that bribe the people who will get run out of town for taking those bribes!
Just spoon full of sugar helps take data centers down - just a well placed mixed 'beverage' melts ice - it's the country under fascism and the 'govt.' Ignores the responsibility to safeguard the citizens
Meh, the cooling effect would take care of things very quickly. Imagine there's a guy popping the tires of all trucks or SUVs in your city. How many would it take for people to start parking somewhere else? Not many.
For now, the parasites still need to live with and besides labrorers and normal people. Immortality can't yet be bought and a cheap knife or gun can create damage no amount of money can fix. That'll change once the autonomous murder robots become self sufficient.
You're paying thrice:
1: With your spare time in which you give advice on forums and maintain Wikipedia pages. This information is getting slurped up by AI crawlers.
2: Implicitly with your money, to get some new AI doodad on your laptop or your phone, trained on 1.
3: See meme.
Hell with billionaires and tax cuts to increase something the average person won't enjoy, I bet it's even more than thrice.
Property tax increase cause property is used but not taxed due to being a 'big project', if another company built there (besides say wal mart it'd be taxed)
Power bill increase, which we see happens to OPs post.
Using land that could benefit the area, it's probably a large complex that could help the locals and not make their power bill larger.
Having a complex that heats up local area for things not beneficial to locals. Global warming but thankfully some ai model will grow?
Using water that makes drinking water worse for locals. Read stories of people near data centers, losing all water pressure so the data center can have water. Cause that's more important than people.
Only helping the person who built it vs the locals. I really have no idea who data centers help. I assume some are for the crappy bit we see when we Google but so many must be private. Also who hasn't learned to go through search results? Seriously that's a skill needed, if you don't have it you need to learn. I may have accepted the new paradigm but I would prefer a bit of work going back to searching.
There no good reason for this crap. They get built but don't benefit anyone but the rich. They just want serfs anyways, is that the real future?
How to Survive a Robot Uprising: Tips on Defending Yourself Against the Coming Rebellion is a semi-satirical book by Daniel Wilson published in November 2005.
Critics believe that the data center has the capability to process "all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Internet searches, as well as all types of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital 'pocket litter'."[6] In response to claims that the data center would be used to illegally monitor email of U.S. citizens, in April 2013 an NSA spokesperson said, "Many unfounded allegations have been made about the planned activities of the Utah Data Center, ... one of the biggest misconceptions about NSA is that we are unlawfully listening in on, or reading emails of, U.S. citizens. This is simply not the case."[4]
Resisting AI: An Anti-fascist Approach to Artificial Intelligence is a book on artificial intelligence (AI) by Dan McQuillan, published in 2022 by Bristol University Press.
What would be the easiest way to stop data from flowing out of a data center? I'm writing a novel where a terrorist needs to successfully halt all data flowing from a large data center. Would it be best to destroy fiber cables? A Virus?
They're putting data centers in near me (they have been heavily protested, but of course that doesn't do shit, the local government holds lots of meetings that are crowded with people saying they don't want them, and then they shrug and approve them anyway. The last meeting I heard about they just flat out cancelled because too many people were planning on coming and speaking against it). I got a letter from my power company that they're raising electric rates, and would I like to contribute to a fund to help pay other people's bill?
Oh I know exactly how I'm voting next election, but the problem is that I live in a conservative area and these dumb fuckers wouldn't vote for their own self interest if you held a gun to their heads, because if they vote for things that benefit them then a brown person or someone on disability might also benefit.
This conundrum is why America has been continuously turning into a shit hole for the lower classes. It goes all the way back to right after the civil rights movement. By the early 70s, most public pools were filled with concrete (supplemented via private country club pools of course) and white private schools were opened up all over the South to exclude blacks. These examples are just a small part of what has been going on over the last 50+ years.
the bigger issue is that education is mostly underfunded, or defunded. defunded is where gop do it to rural areas. even in places that are blue can be underfunded. as i see them still using the same version of books like 10+years ago without much updates, plus if you looking at how they are shuffling students around to make sure the funding for the budget, if the student is struggling.
Guess what? It was defunded because the money got poured into private schools and it doesn’t help public schools in America rely on local property taxes, so low income schools get less money due to the property taxes netting less money.
we got a nearby public/private school that is a christian prep school, they get all the new funding and are under construction for new buildings. the public schools dont ahve those resources. i dont think this is those that take private vouchers since we are in a blue area, but the difference is staggering, if they get more funding they have better chances of prepping thier students for college. while the hs i went to only had a small handfull of students that were truly "successful", they had classes where they shunt underperforming students as a "babysat" class, usually its a class about random subjects.
MAGAts want all to suffer, including themselves, if it also means that POCs, women, LGBTQ+, foreigners, leftists, liberals, and other never-Trumpers suffer.
Unfortunately I rent an apartment. I'd love to do a solar array on my balcony, but it's small and faces north so I don't think it would be cost effective.
This gets extra sick when you remember many places in the west will declare a house legally condemned if you dont have power... Even if you have solar panels...
You can have totally functional power in the home and be self sufficient but you /still/ have to be connected to the grid and paying for that.
And often these jacked up prices impact you, even if you arent using the power at all.
I don't really get how the fig leaf of "due to data-centers" is even supposed to work.
They get more demand, so more revenue. Then the fixed costs of the business are spread over more revenue, which is supposed to make the prices better not worse.
I know the profit motive is just extracting whatever the market will bear, but could anyone still explain the reasoning they are trying to make customers believe?
It can depend, also this little snippet doesn't say if it's energy or delivery. Some utilities really like expanding delivery because the projects are revenue, and they don't make much, if any, on the delivery. But in some cases those delivery expansion projects have a long payback time, so they avoid them until they're critical, and also lose if after building the demand they were serving goes down.
It also varies a ton by state (Texas being the most extreme example). As well as, someone noted below, how the energy purchase goes. In my state there's an independent not for profit that is not the utility, and not the energy producer, that just coordinates purchase of power from the broader region (across multiple states). They'll mix whats coming into the grid in the state going "call Ohio and buy XXYY megawatts for ZZ hrs from that coal fire joint". The control room is cool as hell. They seem pretty ethically clean, but purchasing that power is a bidding process (like, real time), and your bid has to be competitive.
Somewhere at the energy company is a person or small team responsible for that message. And those are regular people who also are getting fucked in the ass. Carefully crafted to keep their job (shifting the blame away from the utility slightly), while also letting everyone know who's dick it is in their bumbum
This seems really super straight forward. Demand increases, price increases. Why would you sell your labor for less than the max you can get? If another company offers you twice your salay, are you declining?
This isn't even a capitalist thing. Markets and supply and demand have existed long before capitalism, or socialism.
It's the same reason rents are high in cities. If 100 houses need to be distributed to 1000 families, you need a mechanism to "get rid" of 900. Increasing the price for the rare commodity is one of the options, a lottery like in the DDR is another.
Data centers have lobbying force the citizens lack, they can negotiate for better prices.
Data centers also force power grid upgrades, the cost of which gets unfairly distributed to consumers.
And, data centers have the technology to take advantage of peak pricing, running on low power when electricity costs more and amping up when the price is more favorable.
People need to fight back in force, write their representatives, their energy companies, show up to town halls and increase public pressure to make sure data centers are paying their fair share.
I emailed the department of energy asking it why the cost of the data centers energy is being pushed onto the people and I also mentioned how it seems like a direct conflict of interest.
If we did, it would be populated by MAGAs who would take bribes to let the power company put ALL the costs on the residential consumers. Except for the wealthy neighborhood. They deserve a break, because they're better.
People with wealth have more time on their hands and are also more likely to have a mentality that they deserve what they have more than others. Many of them are obsessed with hierarchy whether they realize it or not, allowing them to dismiss the troubles of the commoners with talk of personal responsibility.
But there is a personal responsibility to check the job market, get your credit up to a good standing, make sure you read your loan agreement terms, make sure youre not gonna get done learning and go into a saturated field that will no longer exist in 4 to 8 years.
When it comes to investing in yourself: People have to stop investing in bullshit and start investing in practicality.
Why do you think so many people turn to medical professions, hard labor jobs or STEM. They're the only ones left that you can afford and it'll make you a decent ROI where you're not going to be trapped for 50 years in a loan.
They are raising prices because there is new demand in the market. That's not socialism at all, it's market forces.
I'm betting the datacenters and power companies are funded by capital from investors that demand to receive the maximum capital return that can be extracted from that municipality. That's capitalism
It is not socialism. It is literally capitalism. Socialism is a form of government. It is true that the costs of higher energy are being spread across society and therefore socialized, but that is not the same as socialism.
If you are looking for the truest -ism that this would be, it would be the original Mussolini definition of fascism as the merger of state and government, that is now closer to what we would call corporatism.
There was an article I read a while ago that kind of explained it. Basically, the increased datacenter demand forces the grid operator to build more capacity, which requires money. I think there are meetings where they decide how it is distributed across all their corporate and resident ratepayers. Basically the lobbyists argue that the since this new capacity technically benefits rate payers in the form of more capacity, they should take a share of it. Even though none of us are actually going to be using that capacity...
And it doesn't help at all that the grid companies are monopolies
But correct me if I'm wrong if the data centers are the cause of the electrical increase then shouldn't they be offering to relieve the city of the cost because they're the source? Like if I wanted to run 3kw of electricity on a 220v outlet with a laboratory grade vacuum pump for an hour, I would need to pay more for my electrical bill for my house only, right? My neighbors wouldn't see a spike, I would see a spike.
My neighbors using their central air have a higher bill than me because they use more, that's always how it's been.
If they're the cause they should have to pay more than the rest of us. If they're using more energy, they should have to pay more, if they can't pay to do upfront costs with the energy companies maybe they shouldn't be building them. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 It makes you wonder who the hell is selling these people predatory contracts.
They’re paying for every kilowatt-hour they use, same as us. They are just a different ‘class’ of ratepayer (i.e. a bigger customer). The reason prices go up is not entirely just because of demand, but because there’s not enough supply, and the prices go up to cover for the cost to build it. The way I understand it is that some board has to decide how to distribute the increase in rates across their customers in order to meet the extra revenue, and the higher classes of ratepayers know that if their rate went up, that would be millions lost. So they hire lobbyists to convince the grid company to shift the cost to residential tax payers, and since neither you are me is going to march to the electric company and demand a fairer distribution, they end up shifting ‘some’ of it to us.
I participate in the "residential smart thermostat rewards" program where they can adjust my temps during high demand periods. In the past it has been like if it's 100F out they will bump my settings from 77 to 79 which is not a big deal and gets me like two weeks of free electricity.
This year those mother fuckers have been bumping the thermostat up to like 86 when it's 87 outside. Gee I wonder what the fucking difference is now? I can reject their temp settings in the app, but I can only do it like three times before they cancel my rewards. I'm half tempted to go wire up a little Arduino in series with the thermostat so I can control the AC without touching the smart thermostat if needed.
I had a similar deal (I actually got a free Nest thermostat out of it), but eventually I disabled that feature. Instead, I now use a fixed temperature upper bound that is at the edge of my comfortable range. Of course, this is because I can afford to run the air conditioning when it gets that hot.
This is honestly the first year I've even noticed the events. Previously I'd notice the email like a few days later and check the logs to see what they did. This was the first time where I was just at home and felt noticeably uncomfortable and checked the thermostat to see they'd set it to 86F which is outrageous. Its pissing me off enough that I want to cheat the system instead of just opt out, because like... The fucking audacity.
Unpopular opinion, but when competing for a scarce resource, everyone pays more because it is more scarce. Then more gets created (at least in the case of power) and the system equalizes.
It would be better if there was a provision to cover the spike for ratepayers for some number of years.
No, the country did not. Only a fraction of the populace is eligible to vote; a fraction of that fraction actually did vote, and roughly 50% of that fraction voted for Trump. He was voted in by a minority.
a majority voted that kid rapist or decided that it was okay whether a kid rapist with dictatorial tendencies was elected. So yes, you Americans decided he was the chosen one and happily put him there. Now is time to just pay the consequences. At least you had a saying on that, the rest of the world have to deal with a lot of the nonsense that rapist is creating to scam everyone and we didn't have a saying.
If only my government would learn the lesson and never again trust any USA company/government for anything...
You have always paid for millionaires/billionaires projects. The government spends your taxes and gives it to their corporations to build infrastructure and weapons. How do you think we built railroads and space shuttles and tanks?
Those aren't great examples. Not sure how it is in the us, but the rails were originally primarily built buy private businesses, some were nationalized, and are now private again. Space exploration is a net benefit to science and understanding, that's why is government funded. Tanks fall into defense spending, yes the money does come from public pockets and goes to private businesses, but that's because of the MIC lobbying
If they're using those centers to generate revenue and they can afford to pay the electricity bill, there's something off. My neighbors aren't paying for my electricity.
I am not paying for the hood milk factories electricity, I am not paying for the John Hancock building's electricity, I am not paying for the liquor stores electricity. Walmart and micky d's are paying their own bills.
There's no reason the common person should be paying for the electrical bill of another, especially when revenue of 200$ to 250$ per person per annual subscription services so..... yearly. ..........
"Hey we're making money off of you but you're gonna pay for our store to exist....."
🤷🏻♂️ Someone is bribing the department of energy.
WHY is everyone so ANGRY at This? It's the EXACT same Thing that Happens when your Neighbors have a HUGE Power Hungry weekend! EVERYONE Pays an Increase INSTEAD of JUST your Neighbor! I've NEVER had to Pay MORE for a Bill when I've used MORE Energy! It's ALWAYS Distributed to EVERYONE instead!
Wow bro, you're so smart. Clearly once someone posts something to the Internet that is the only action they are taking. And clearly posting to the Internet is only as effective at communicating the problem as putting up posters for thousands of people to read.
What should we do about it OP not knowing your super-smart insight here? Reply to their post about it?
So, this looks like "Something awful, that I don't need, is increasing my energy prices". A more accurate version would probably look like "Something really useful that I use all the time is increasing my energy prices".
Whenever you see social media posts that demonise data centers just bear in mind all the foreign powers who are working hard to make you hate data centers (also look at my comments and downvotes which have now entered legendary status and are all pointless anyway, because no one's reading this now lol. Next time if you're going to organise a pile-on you've got to be quicker off the mark chaps).
To anyone with an interest in critical thinking just Google who the Bitcoin Policy Institute is and make your own mind up. Or you know... go with the glib soundbite. Up to you lol
Shilling for data centers puts you on the same dumbass level as Kevin O'Leary and Peter Thiel who spout bullshit like "the Pope is serving the Chinese communist agenda for doubting AI".
Well it isn't to "Shill for data centers" but I suspect you knew that already. Honestly, nobody is reading this anymore unless it's their job, so this is just a conversation between us. I get fed up with these echo chambers. They're so pointless since everyone already agrees with each other and sensible people just stay away anyway, but it's still annoying that so few people challenge these talking points. "Data center bad", "Won't someone think of the water?!", "AI is secretly a plan to enslave us all" etc.
My intent was to challenge these things and see who would respond genuinely and who would just stick to the script. It's been quite interesting. Also, honestly it felt good not to be intimidated or spun out in a thread full of sarcasm, ridicule, ad hominem attacks etc.
As for the downvotes, oh well... Most of the rest of my time here is generally positive. Sometimes though it feels good to stand up and say what I think, even if it costs some fake internet points lol
The thing is that I'm in Toronto—the same city that Kevin O'Leary's from—and while my view of him was never great, it took a deep dive in 2024 when IIUC he agreed that Canada should join the US, and now he's going on about critics of data centers being fronts for the Chinese (even though I'm sure he's dealt with the Chinese in preference to North American businesses at times).
Further, as one who for the most part doesn't agree with "intellectual property" I'm kind of with the Chinese on this one as I don't consider the "theft" of IP a big problem, and resent the US government insisting that we (Canada) should tighten up (I think we should go far in the opposite direction);
and while I'm anti-CPC, I tire of the Sinophobia, such as O'Leary's use of it, so when you started to sound like him, I, and probably others here, thought, "Oh no, here we go again."
(btw, I didn't downvote you: I rarely downvote people)
What does responding genuinely mean to you? Is it so hard to believe that people, especially those on here, hate data centers? To me it seems like your intent was just to confirm your view that the place is an echo chamber. Hearing "yeah it's all Chinese bots everything is actually great 👍" is what you wanted to find?
"BPI provides the research, education, and expertise necessary to help America lead in the digital asset revolution while protecting consumers and preserving individual liberty."
They sound just lovely and definitely have all our best interests at heart. And totally not bitcoin shills, nosiree.
BPI operates as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit with research and editorial independence. The core team consists of around 25 fellows, advisors, and full-time professionals, including:
Grant McCarty: Executive Director
Matthew Pines: Director of Special Programs / Senior Fellow
Sam Lyman: Head of Research (formerly of the U.S. Treasury Department)
David Zell: President
The institute acts as an educational and advisory resource for lawmakers, regulators, and the media.
Direct Engagement: BPI regularly briefs Congressional members and agency staff, provides expert testimonies, and shapes federal and state legislation.
Congressional Fellowship: BPI operates a fellowship program to train policymakers and their staff on the fundamentals of Bitcoin technology and policy.
Bitcoin Policy Summit: BPI hosts an annual flagship conference in Washington, D.C., that brings together regulators, researchers, and industry leaders to discuss digital asset policy.
Is this cherry picking too? 682df013e55cf277195c3034_BPI Policy Manifesto 20 May 2025.pdf https://share.google/fUP3qeJbPSQI0yCuP in which the title is literally "BITCOIN POLICY
INSTITUTE
A Comprehensive Policy Framework
for U.S. Leadership on Bitcoin
Zack Shapiro" sorry about the Google share, can't find it linked anywhere else. In this policy recommendation they advocate for establishing a US Bitcoin strategic reserve. C'mon now, spin that one as it being for protection of the little guy.
I'm cheering for them, yea. If you think it's those pesky Chinese and Russians, those "foreign powers" include the UN and most other countries btw.
But I'm sure it's just because they don't understand the American economic genius. Anyway all of this is not a problem because the real solution is datacenters in space right?
175 Comments
Atherel@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 121 pts · 24d
How the fuck should a loan program help paying for monthly recurring costs?!
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 24d
the more I'm debt you get the more you owe them,
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 35 pts · 24d
Well, in the past (and the present in many places) perpetual unrepayable debts were used as a way to implement slavery without calling it slavery. They call it debt peonage. You know, food for thought.
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 19 pts · 24d
Short term it pads the companies books a bit more by adding an asset on top of the revenue. Medium term it's a perpetual impairment generator. The executives are just planning to cash out before the inevitable happens.
FishFace@piefed.social · 3 pts · 24d
It helps people who can still pay on average but have an unexpected cost which, due to higher bills, now pushes them into the red.
Orioniae@piefed.social · 3 pts · 24d
“Capitalism breeds innovation”
Meanwhile we have monthly installments for monthly installments.
socsa@piefed.social · 2 pts · 23d
Because in the summer people run the AC more than they can afford and rack up like $300 bills when their off-summer average would normally be like $70. The loan programs are more like a deferred payment plan where they will cap the individual monthly payment at $150 or something, and then just push the surplus onto other future bills. Then usually when you close the account you owe them a bunch of money still, and that's when they start doing things like offering to set you up with loan services.
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
I guess they cover you for a while until you figure it out. It's better than nothing ig.
MBech@feddit.dk · 19 pts · 24d
It's really not. What it does is trap these people in endless debt. Now we don't know any details about these loans, but there's no way in hell the customers aren't going to be paying fees and interest. A loan of $40 will be a loan of $100 the next month and so on. This is a way to make extra off of the people who have nothing.
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 21d
That's more than 1200% interest. Even loan sharks don't do that.
MBech@feddit.dk · 2 pts · 21d
That example is assuming you'll accrue another $40 next month. The interest numbers are pulled from my ass to make a point.
jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 24d
In the corporate world, if you are taking on debt to fund operations, that's an indicator that your business is circling the drain. The same applies to personal finance.
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 21d
Businesses can afford to go bankrupt. People can't afford to die. Electricity is a basic necessity for a lot of people.
Seleni@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
Have you heard of the concept of company towns?
sunbrrnslapper@lemmy.world · 81 pts · 24d
I absolutely cannot figure this out. Isn't a kwh the same price for everyone? Why would a data center pay less? (I'm not asking anyone to justify the poor decisions of energy companies)
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip · 111 pts · 24d
Same as with RAM prices. There is a limited supply and the datacenters are hogging it, possibly willing to pay extra because the entire bubble depends on MORE MORE MORE, or willing to bulk purchase the entire contingent in advance.
Now if you are a power supplier you find yourself in the comfortable position of being financially courted by the datacenter corps, and you have a captured audience of consumers who rely on you supplying them, who you can now justifiably bleed out, and if they cant pay you just sell it to the datacenter after all.
AlteE@programming.dev · 57 pts · 24d
That is actually very sick behavior.
dalekcaan@feddit.nl · 25 pts · 24d
To you or I, surely, but to an MBA it's just business as usual.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 24d
Capitalism is essentially based on the concept that everyone doing whatever they believe is in their best interest will magically balance itself out and achieve the most-efficient outcome, instead of the most self-serving and greedy criminals and psychopaths colluding to exploit and deceive the masses, accrue the lions share, and enslave everyone else.
It's basically a religiously-dogmatic mental illness that has no place beyond the 19th Century, but the criminals and psychopaths used their wealth to exploit and deceive the masses... so here we are. May the greediest psychopath win!
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
One might not have to buy (i.e. pay), or buy as much, if one has solar or even just a stack of batteries to get electricity during the off periods.
edible_funk@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 24d
This is America.
grue@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 24d
Perversely, no. Large industrial users often get a bulk rate that's cheaper than the household rate.
Happy cake day, BTW.
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 27 pts · 24d
Definitely a smart move letting those power utilities be privatised, even a regulation forcing cost price power for residents would have been better than full privatisation. I'm so glad my state never got sucked into letting that happen here.
Snowcano@startrek.website · 17 pts · 24d
Fortunately, Oregon seems to have figured out how to handle this. This was in my feed, literally right under this post.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/63159063
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 24d
but reducing customers rate by 1.3% isnt that much, it should be 30%
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com · 2 pts · 24d
Our rates haven't gone up by much lately. The rates have kept more in line with the stupid inflation.
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com · 16 pts · 24d
As the other commenter said, they have a limited supply and are expecting us plebeians to be priced out and go without. It's already happening: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/virginia-county-tells-workers-switch-002400860.html
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 24d
Not sure why you'd assume this
BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 24d
People tend to like to imagine the world is fair and just.
thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 24d
If it’s anything like it is here in Victoria (Australia); the price per MWh is recalculated based on supply/demand on a 5 minute basis:
https://www.aemo.com.au/aemo/data/nem/priceanddemand/PRICE_AND_DEMAND_202607_VIC1.csv
That’s because when supply outruns demand, surplus electricity is basically worthless and wholesalers need to pay someone to take it - we have long stretches of time, even during winter, where our domestic solar production saturates the demand, resulting in our Feed-in tariffs (what homes get paid for surplus production) has dropped to 1c/kWh, except for certain edge cases).
The bulk of the cost incurred is due to peak-energy generation (gas turbine, I believe?) ramping up to cover peak evening times.
These costs are aggregated and amortised over total demand, to balance out people’s energy bills.
This has been a bit of a tangent, but I found this interesting when I first learned it, and just wanted to share!
Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online · 7 pts · 24d
Folks who are saying the price is going up because of demand are technically right but it's kinda misleading. People get mad when they don't understand their bills so I wanna add to that:
With more demand in the system, more distribution equipment is used and will need more maintenance. Your electric bill has fixed fees and usage fees. The fixed fees include the cost of capital upgrades, which cover these costs. It's not a direct 1:1 cost for each connection, as the upstream feed capacity needs to increase too.
Cost per KW may go up too, it depends on the way your utility is set up. Time of day pricing is meant to encourage offsetting costs and sometimes large customers pay proportional to the contribution to peak demand.
It doesn't help that this increase in demand comes when so much of the grid is old as fuck in north america. But we live in interesting times.
grue@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 24d
Data centers forcing grid upgrades is all the more reason their rates should be higher. They should be paying 100% of those capital upgrade costs, too!
Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online · 3 pts · 24d
Okay these are literally things that you can vote for you need to find out who regulates energy rates and get on their ass
unmagical@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 24d
It may well be the same price for the data center too, but now that there's significantly more load on the network and there've been no changes to network capacity the price is being adjusted to reconcile the new demand with existing supply.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 24d
they get a wholesale/bulk rate which is far cheaper than residential, we atually pay for any datacenter, business in the end.
selfmate@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 24d
Everyone on the power exchange. Consumers don't pay the exchange price. They pay a premium to the company that transforms exchange power to household power on a virtual sheet of paper.
Dojan@pawb.social · 4 pts · 24d
Clout. Aura. Bargaining force. Call it whatever you want, really. Corporations are big, they have capital, capital is power. They can hire people to influence politics, pushing for people who are on their side to get elected by funding campaigns, and naturally bribe people on the down low.
Stick, along with the other people served by their provider, most likely don't have the ability to pay people to lobby for them full time. Most people barely have the money to keep their personal economy going, and spend a significant portion of their time just making that happen. As a result, the corporations who are benefiting from this sit on all the power, because they can influence public opinion as well, painting their politics as beneficial to private individuals, even if that's a complete lie.
That is why democracy and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible. Workers could band together and claim power, but they're kept in situations where doing that just isn't feasible.
Things won't get better without some kind of revolution. The balance of power is tipped so far in favour of the corporations that no matter how much time or money workers spend (neither of which we have) trying to better things, they'll never get even close to what the corpos can swing with.
olafurp@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 23d
It's more that everyone pays more including the data center even. It could also be related to non-generation costs such as building additional distribution infra which can be regulated as a shared cost even though the data center pays for all extra generation.
thefluffiest@feddit.nl · 60 pts · 24d
Privatized profits, socialized cost. That’s the “free market”.
decapitae@sh.itjust.works · 39 pts · 24d
Data centers that can't run, don't eat up electricity
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 24d
There's usually usually a power pole near them feeding them with electricity. Shame if something were to happen to it.
decapitae@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 24d
It is only aluminum wire after all
Phantaloons@piefed.zip · -1 pts · 24d
More luigi will save us power fantasies for our nightly coping routine?
decapitae@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 24d
It would take millions of luigis
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
Or a few kids with a map of datacenters and a willingness to vandalize some power poles and turn off some water valves.
decapitae@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 24d
Or a group of people willing to look to the future when corporstions won't .... dissolve the corporations that bribe the people who will get run out of town for taking those bribes!
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
The US has ≥330 million people. 😁 🙂
decapitae@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 24d
Just spoon full of sugar helps take data centers down - just a well placed mixed 'beverage' melts ice - it's the country under fascism and the 'govt.' Ignores the responsibility to safeguard the citizens
r1veRRR@feddit.org · 1 pts · 23d
Meh, the cooling effect would take care of things very quickly. Imagine there's a guy popping the tires of all trucks or SUVs in your city. How many would it take for people to start parking somewhere else? Not many.
For now, the parasites still need to live with and besides labrorers and normal people. Immortality can't yet be bought and a cheap knife or gun can create damage no amount of money can fix. That'll change once the autonomous murder robots become self sufficient.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
https://youtu.be/aEsvcmyFKXw?list=RDaEsvcmyFKXw&t=34
"Hey Luigi, what do you do?
Hey Luigi, teach-a me too."
TheBrideWoreCrimson@sopuli.xyz · 33 pts · 24d
You're paying thrice:
1: With your spare time in which you give advice on forums and maintain Wikipedia pages. This information is getting slurped up by AI crawlers.
2: Implicitly with your money, to get some new AI doodad on your laptop or your phone, trained on 1.
3: See meme.
And that's why billionaires exists.
orbitz@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 24d
Hell with billionaires and tax cuts to increase something the average person won't enjoy, I bet it's even more than thrice.
Property tax increase cause property is used but not taxed due to being a 'big project', if another company built there (besides say wal mart it'd be taxed)
Power bill increase, which we see happens to OPs post.
Using land that could benefit the area, it's probably a large complex that could help the locals and not make their power bill larger.
Having a complex that heats up local area for things not beneficial to locals. Global warming but thankfully some ai model will grow?
Using water that makes drinking water worse for locals. Read stories of people near data centers, losing all water pressure so the data center can have water. Cause that's more important than people.
Only helping the person who built it vs the locals. I really have no idea who data centers help. I assume some are for the crappy bit we see when we Google but so many must be private. Also who hasn't learned to go through search results? Seriously that's a skill needed, if you don't have it you need to learn. I may have accepted the new paradigm but I would prefer a bit of work going back to searching.
There no good reason for this crap. They get built but don't benefit anyone but the rich. They just want serfs anyways, is that the real future?
Mountainaire@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 23d
Wait, which?
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 24d
FWIW,
wp:Data center,
wp:Opposition to AI data centers,
wp:Swiss Fort Knox,
wp:Zettabyte Era,
wp:Military applications of artificial intelligence,
wp:Artificial intelligence,
wp:Category:Artificial intelligence,
36 subcats and 247 articles,
wp:AI nationalism,
wp:Discrimination against robots,
wp:AI takeover,
wp:Category:Artificial intelligence controversies,
3 subcats and 27 articles
wp:Category:Existential risk from artificial intelligence,
64 articles
wp:Stop AI,
wp:How to Survive a Robot Uprising,
wp:Utah Data Center
wp:Ethics of artificial intelligence,
wp:Resisting AI,
wp:Category:Criticism of artificial intelligence
1 subcat with 32 articles, and 12 articles
wp:Democratic backsliding in the United States,
wp:Wikipedia:Writing articles with large language models,
wp:Wikipedia:AI noticeboard
Search Google: How to destroy a data center
results here
including:
Datacenter Violence
https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/1pm2h7w/datacenter_violence/
What would be the easiest way to stop data from flowing out of a data center? I'm writing a novel where a terrorist needs to successfully halt all data flowing from a large data center. Would it be best to destroy fiber cables? A Virus?
https://www.quora.com/What-would-be-the-easiest-way-to-stop-data-from-flowing-out-of-a-data-center-Im-writing-a-novel-where-a-terrorist-needs-to-successfully-halt-all-data-flowing-from-a-large-data-center-Would-it-be-best-to-destroy
topherclay@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 24d
What is the point of this collection of links? What are you trying to communicate with this comment?
convectionfusion@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 24d
Spam account? seems like ai slop
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 24d
Check my profile, and you'll see how spammy it is.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 24d
They might serve more than AI crawlers.
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 32 pts · 24d
They're putting data centers in near me (they have been heavily protested, but of course that doesn't do shit, the local government holds lots of meetings that are crowded with people saying they don't want them, and then they shrug and approve them anyway. The last meeting I heard about they just flat out cancelled because too many people were planning on coming and speaking against it). I got a letter from my power company that they're raising electric rates, and would I like to contribute to a fund to help pay other people's bill?
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 24d
Replace them. Either recruit a candidate or run yourself. Ignoring your voters should have consequences.
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 24d
Oh I know exactly how I'm voting next election, but the problem is that I live in a conservative area and these dumb fuckers wouldn't vote for their own self interest if you held a gun to their heads, because if they vote for things that benefit them then a brown person or someone on disability might also benefit.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 24d
This conundrum is why America has been continuously turning into a shit hole for the lower classes. It goes all the way back to right after the civil rights movement. By the early 70s, most public pools were filled with concrete (supplemented via private country club pools of course) and white private schools were opened up all over the South to exclude blacks. These examples are just a small part of what has been going on over the last 50+ years.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 23d
the bigger issue is that education is mostly underfunded, or defunded. defunded is where gop do it to rural areas. even in places that are blue can be underfunded. as i see them still using the same version of books like 10+years ago without much updates, plus if you looking at how they are shuffling students around to make sure the funding for the budget, if the student is struggling.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23d
Guess what? It was defunded because the money got poured into private schools and it doesn’t help public schools in America rely on local property taxes, so low income schools get less money due to the property taxes netting less money.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 22d
we got a nearby public/private school that is a christian prep school, they get all the new funding and are under construction for new buildings. the public schools dont ahve those resources. i dont think this is those that take private vouchers since we are in a blue area, but the difference is staggering, if they get more funding they have better chances of prepping thier students for college. while the hs i went to only had a small handfull of students that were truly "successful", they had classes where they shunt underperforming students as a "babysat" class, usually its a class about random subjects.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 24d
MAGAts want all to suffer, including themselves, if it also means that POCs, women, LGBTQ+, foreigners, leftists, liberals, and other never-Trumpers suffer.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 23d
some of them dont even votes, even magats.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 23d
most of them been bought off, even if they arnt seeking re-election, they ram through the approval after getting a hefty fee for themselves.
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech · 9 pts · 24d
Not to sidestep it, but at what point is doing personal solar a better deal, if you own that is
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 24d
Unfortunately I rent an apartment. I'd love to do a solar array on my balcony, but it's small and faces north so I don't think it would be cost effective.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
Is electricity where you are much cheaper at night?
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 24d
It's the same rate regardless of the time of day.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
sad to read that.
Here in Ontario, the rates are lower at night and during the weekends (a little less than half).
https://www.hydroone.com/rates-and-billing/rates-and-charges/electricity-pricing-and-costs
socsa@piefed.social · 1 pts · 23d
Almost every provider these days has time of use rate plans available, at least in urban areas.
pixxelkick@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 24d
This gets extra sick when you remember many places in the west will declare a house legally condemned if you dont have power... Even if you have solar panels...
You can have totally functional power in the home and be self sufficient but you /still/ have to be connected to the grid and paying for that.
And often these jacked up prices impact you, even if you arent using the power at all.
MML@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 24d
Let me tell you about my legally required cable.
socsa@piefed.social · 1 pts · 23d
Oi mate yuo got a loicense fer that tv?
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
What if a homeowner was connected but only drew a few kilowatt∙hrs a month, and meet the rest of their electrical needs with solar?
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 24d
The point is that the connection is not free. There is a base connection charge even if you don’t draw any power.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
and that's bad—I agree; but, FWIW, what if many opted for solar and batteries to draw off on off-hours?
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de · 24 pts · 24d
I don't really get how the fig leaf of "due to data-centers" is even supposed to work.
They get more demand, so more revenue. Then the fixed costs of the business are spread over more revenue, which is supposed to make the prices better not worse.
I know the profit motive is just extracting whatever the market will bear, but could anyone still explain the reasoning they are trying to make customers believe?
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 15 pts · 24d
That's the neat part, they don't have to bother with that!
starchylemming@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 24d
probably need to build new power plants while the existing ones are in overdrive
they could handle that diffeently, butt fleecing regular joe is more fun
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 24d
It let's them increase their extortionary price hike by more, and blame it on a different extortionist.
batmaniam@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 24d
It can depend, also this little snippet doesn't say if it's energy or delivery. Some utilities really like expanding delivery because the projects are revenue, and they don't make much, if any, on the delivery. But in some cases those delivery expansion projects have a long payback time, so they avoid them until they're critical, and also lose if after building the demand they were serving goes down.
It also varies a ton by state (Texas being the most extreme example). As well as, someone noted below, how the energy purchase goes. In my state there's an independent not for profit that is not the utility, and not the energy producer, that just coordinates purchase of power from the broader region (across multiple states). They'll mix whats coming into the grid in the state going "call Ohio and buy XXYY megawatts for ZZ hrs from that coal fire joint". The control room is cool as hell. They seem pretty ethically clean, but purchasing that power is a bidding process (like, real time), and your bid has to be competitive.
chilicheeselies@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
Somewhere at the energy company is a person or small team responsible for that message. And those are regular people who also are getting fucked in the ass. Carefully crafted to keep their job (shifting the blame away from the utility slightly), while also letting everyone know who's dick it is in their bumbum
r1veRRR@feddit.org · 1 pts · 23d
This seems really super straight forward. Demand increases, price increases. Why would you sell your labor for less than the max you can get? If another company offers you twice your salay, are you declining?
This isn't even a capitalist thing. Markets and supply and demand have existed long before capitalism, or socialism.
It's the same reason rents are high in cities. If 100 houses need to be distributed to 1000 families, you need a mechanism to "get rid" of 900. Increasing the price for the rare commodity is one of the options, a lottery like in the DDR is another.
Frenchgeek@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 24d
See? Trickle down economics does work! With debt.
Spiv@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 24d
Debt trickles down, money trickles up
Wren@lemmy.today · 19 pts · 24d
Data centers have lobbying force the citizens lack, they can negotiate for better prices.
Data centers also force power grid upgrades, the cost of which gets unfairly distributed to consumers.
And, data centers have the technology to take advantage of peak pricing, running on low power when electricity costs more and amping up when the price is more favorable.
People need to fight back in force, write their representatives, their energy companies, show up to town halls and increase public pressure to make sure data centers are paying their fair share.
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 24d
I emailed the department of energy asking it why the cost of the data centers energy is being pushed onto the people and I also mentioned how it seems like a direct conflict of interest.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
You think those clowns care about your email?? Probably got put in the trash as soon as it arrived.
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
Still worth a try asking, right?
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 23d
just like emailing or contacting your senator/house member is just as futile, they likely dont read it, or have an assistant to filter it out.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 23d
lobbying as in bribing the govorner here and there, the council members to fast track it before people can block it.
huppakee@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 24d
Isn't sharing the bill while a small group profits exactly how capitalism works?
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 24d
Don't you have something like an energy board to protect your citizens against price hikes by power companies.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 15 pts · 24d
If we did, it would be populated by MAGAs who would take bribes to let the power company put ALL the costs on the residential consumers. Except for the wealthy neighborhood. They deserve a break, because they're better.
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 24d
Sounds like getting politically involved is a MAGA-exclusive thing in your country.
MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 24d
People with wealth have more time on their hands and are also more likely to have a mentality that they deserve what they have more than others. Many of them are obsessed with hierarchy whether they realize it or not, allowing them to dismiss the troubles of the commoners with talk of personal responsibility.
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 24d
You don't need wealth, just using your spare time getting involved is enough to boost the ranks.
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
And you feel like lacking personal responsibility is gonna change your life?
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
But there is a personal responsibility to check the job market, get your credit up to a good standing, make sure you read your loan agreement terms, make sure youre not gonna get done learning and go into a saturated field that will no longer exist in 4 to 8 years.
When it comes to investing in yourself: People have to stop investing in bullshit and start investing in practicality.
Why do you think so many people turn to medical professions, hard labor jobs or STEM. They're the only ones left that you can afford and it'll make you a decent ROI where you're not going to be trapped for 50 years in a loan.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 23d
Ah, capitalism!
adhdsergio@lemmy.world · -17 pts · 23d
Technically it's socialism - the population is subsidising the datacenters. It's only capitalism when it comes to getting paid
lefaucet@slrpnk.net · 11 pts · 23d
They are raising prices because there is new demand in the market. That's not socialism at all, it's market forces.
I'm betting the datacenters and power companies are funded by capital from investors that demand to receive the maximum capital return that can be extracted from that municipality. That's capitalism
nanometer1625@thelemmy.club · 7 pts · 23d
It is not socialism. It is literally capitalism. Socialism is a form of government. It is true that the costs of higher energy are being spread across society and therefore socialized, but that is not the same as socialism.
MrEff@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 23d
If you are looking for the truest -ism that this would be, it would be the original Mussolini definition of fascism as the merger of state and government, that is now closer to what we would call corporatism.
Professorozone@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23d
Please provide your definition of socialism.
vandsjov@feddit.dk · 1 pts · 23d
I'm sure you meant this as a joke, a good one at that - remember the /s :D
adhdsergio@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 22d
Yes, i'm getting rinsed 😂
vandsjov@feddit.dk · 1 pts · 22d
Losing valuable internet points 😭
adhdsergio@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 22d
Lost so much karma i'm a sith lord rn
Photonic@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 24d
What do you mean? To transfer wealth of the working class to the Epstein class of course! What a silly question…
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 24d
Time to molatov cocktail the AI daracenter. A sudden unexpected fire happened. Dunno how 🤷♀️
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 24d
Guess they can just get AI to figure out whodunnit
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 24d
Egg the diesel, sugar the concrete.
mursejoy@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 23d
Socialize the expenses, privatize the profits. Everything is working as designed.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 8 pts · 24d
A data center that has been burned down won't need power
Binturong@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 23d
Loobying is bribery.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 24d
How's all that freedom, 'Murica?
TheFrogThatFlies@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 24d
We do have trickle down economies!
Zachariah@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 24d
that’s socialism
rounding_error@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 24d
There was an article I read a while ago that kind of explained it. Basically, the increased datacenter demand forces the grid operator to build more capacity, which requires money. I think there are meetings where they decide how it is distributed across all their corporate and resident ratepayers. Basically the lobbyists argue that the since this new capacity technically benefits rate payers in the form of more capacity, they should take a share of it. Even though none of us are actually going to be using that capacity...
And it doesn't help at all that the grid companies are monopolies
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 23d
But correct me if I'm wrong if the data centers are the cause of the electrical increase then shouldn't they be offering to relieve the city of the cost because they're the source? Like if I wanted to run 3kw of electricity on a 220v outlet with a laboratory grade vacuum pump for an hour, I would need to pay more for my electrical bill for my house only, right? My neighbors wouldn't see a spike, I would see a spike.
My neighbors using their central air have a higher bill than me because they use more, that's always how it's been.
If they're the cause they should have to pay more than the rest of us. If they're using more energy, they should have to pay more, if they can't pay to do upfront costs with the energy companies maybe they shouldn't be building them. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 It makes you wonder who the hell is selling these people predatory contracts.
rounding_error@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 23d
They’re paying for every kilowatt-hour they use, same as us. They are just a different ‘class’ of ratepayer (i.e. a bigger customer). The reason prices go up is not entirely just because of demand, but because there’s not enough supply, and the prices go up to cover for the cost to build it. The way I understand it is that some board has to decide how to distribute the increase in rates across their customers in order to meet the extra revenue, and the higher classes of ratepayers know that if their rate went up, that would be millions lost. So they hire lobbyists to convince the grid company to shift the cost to residential tax payers, and since neither you are me is going to march to the electric company and demand a fairer distribution, they end up shifting ‘some’ of it to us.
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23d
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23d
SalmonTractor@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 23d
Depends on the market too, some US states have a requirement that if the power company has to increase capacity, it's on the power company's dime.
socsa@piefed.social · 6 pts · 23d
I participate in the "residential smart thermostat rewards" program where they can adjust my temps during high demand periods. In the past it has been like if it's 100F out they will bump my settings from 77 to 79 which is not a big deal and gets me like two weeks of free electricity.
This year those mother fuckers have been bumping the thermostat up to like 86 when it's 87 outside. Gee I wonder what the fucking difference is now? I can reject their temp settings in the app, but I can only do it like three times before they cancel my rewards. I'm half tempted to go wire up a little Arduino in series with the thermostat so I can control the AC without touching the smart thermostat if needed.
nanometer1625@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 23d
I had a similar deal (I actually got a free Nest thermostat out of it), but eventually I disabled that feature. Instead, I now use a fixed temperature upper bound that is at the edge of my comfortable range. Of course, this is because I can afford to run the air conditioning when it gets that hot.
socsa@piefed.social · 5 pts · 23d
This is honestly the first year I've even noticed the events. Previously I'd notice the email like a few days later and check the logs to see what they did. This was the first time where I was just at home and felt noticeably uncomfortable and checked the thermostat to see they'd set it to 86F which is outrageous. Its pissing me off enough that I want to cheat the system instead of just opt out, because like... The fucking audacity.
nroth@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 24d
Unpopular opinion, but when competing for a scarce resource, everyone pays more because it is more scarce. Then more gets created (at least in the case of power) and the system equalizes.
It would be better if there was a provision to cover the spike for ratepayers for some number of years.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 24d
Large data centers often pay less than home users (due to economies to scale)
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 23d
businesses actually pay less for electricity than residentials, they get bulk discounts, residents get hikes.
Routhinator@startrek.website · 3 pts · 23d
Quebec has it right, citizens pay the cost of production and their price is protected. The power sold to Americans is sold at market price.
cyclonedusk@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 23d
If I got that letter I'd be on the verge of going Paper Mario on that fuckin place
darkmogool@feddit.org · 3 pts · 23d
Yeah… Burn the data center down…
topperharlie@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
I mean, the country chose Trump, what are you expecting?
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 24d
No, the country did not. Only a fraction of the populace is eligible to vote; a fraction of that fraction actually did vote, and roughly 50% of that fraction voted for Trump. He was voted in by a minority.
topperharlie@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 23d
a majority voted that kid rapist or decided that it was okay whether a kid rapist with dictatorial tendencies was elected. So yes, you Americans decided he was the chosen one and happily put him there. Now is time to just pay the consequences. At least you had a saying on that, the rest of the world have to deal with a lot of the nonsense that rapist is creating to scam everyone and we didn't have a saying.
If only my government would learn the lesson and never again trust any USA company/government for anything...
nosuchanon@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 23d
You have always paid for millionaires/billionaires projects. The government spends your taxes and gives it to their corporations to build infrastructure and weapons. How do you think we built railroads and space shuttles and tanks?
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23d
Those aren't great examples. Not sure how it is in the us, but the rails were originally primarily built buy private businesses, some were nationalized, and are now private again. Space exploration is a net benefit to science and understanding, that's why is government funded. Tanks fall into defense spending, yes the money does come from public pockets and goes to private businesses, but that's because of the MIC lobbying
nanometer1625@thelemmy.club · 0 pts · 23d
To be clear, this is a generic supply and demand effect that isn't specific to datacenters. It's how any market works.
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 23d
If they're using those centers to generate revenue and they can afford to pay the electricity bill, there's something off. My neighbors aren't paying for my electricity.
I am not paying for the hood milk factories electricity, I am not paying for the John Hancock building's electricity, I am not paying for the liquor stores electricity. Walmart and micky d's are paying their own bills.
There's no reason the common person should be paying for the electrical bill of another, especially when revenue of 200$ to 250$ per person per annual subscription services so..... yearly. ..........
"Hey we're making money off of you but you're gonna pay for our store to exist....."
🤷🏻♂️ Someone is bribing the department of energy.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 23d
To be clear, the amount of data centers being built is directly affecting this, so the anger directed to data centers is more than justified
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 23d
where do you think the increased demand came from?
jfc
curiousaur@reddthat.com · 0 pts · 24d
Everything is worth what someone is willing to pay.
BigMacHole@thelemmy.club · -1 pts · 23d
WHY is everyone so ANGRY at This? It's the EXACT same Thing that Happens when your Neighbors have a HUGE Power Hungry weekend! EVERYONE Pays an Increase INSTEAD of JUST your Neighbor! I've NEVER had to Pay MORE for a Bill when I've used MORE Energy! It's ALWAYS Distributed to EVERYONE instead!
roserose56@lemmy.zip · -5 pts · 23d
Bro, what are you going to do about this? Share it on the internet? Sure yea will solve nothing.
lefaucet@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 23d
Wow bro, you're so smart. Clearly once someone posts something to the Internet that is the only action they are taking. And clearly posting to the Internet is only as effective at communicating the problem as putting up posters for thousands of people to read.
What should we do about it OP not knowing your super-smart insight here? Reply to their post about it?
roserose56@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 23d
I believe it's time to start mass protests worldwide l, but hey, let our feature be destroyed.
domusaltera@piefed.social · -22 pts · 24d
So, this looks like "Something awful, that I don't need, is increasing my energy prices". A more accurate version would probably look like "Something really useful that I use all the time is increasing my energy prices".
Whenever you see social media posts that demonise data centers just bear in mind all the foreign powers who are working hard to make you hate data centers (also look at my comments and downvotes which have now entered legendary status and are all pointless anyway, because no one's reading this now lol. Next time if you're going to organise a pile-on you've got to be quicker off the mark chaps).
Foreign Influence in the Campaign against American AI
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 24d
"Using facts that happen to be true"
Domestic powers are working hard to make you love data centers
Visstix@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 24d
Won't someone please think of the data centers.
smiletolerantly@awful.systems · 9 pts · 24d
LMFAO
yeah that's about as hilarious an article as I expected from an outlet called "btcpolicy"
domusaltera@piefed.social · -7 pts · 24d
To anyone with an interest in critical thinking just Google who the Bitcoin Policy Institute is and make your own mind up. Or you know... go with the glib soundbite. Up to you lol
Cherries@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 24d
Shilling for data centers puts you on the same dumbass level as Kevin O'Leary and Peter Thiel who spout bullshit like "the Pope is serving the Chinese communist agenda for doubting AI".
domusaltera@piefed.social · -6 pts · 24d
Classic mischaracterization of my intent there. Keep going lol
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
What is your intent?
domusaltera@piefed.social · 1 pts · 24d
Well it isn't to "Shill for data centers" but I suspect you knew that already. Honestly, nobody is reading this anymore unless it's their job, so this is just a conversation between us. I get fed up with these echo chambers. They're so pointless since everyone already agrees with each other and sensible people just stay away anyway, but it's still annoying that so few people challenge these talking points. "Data center bad", "Won't someone think of the water?!", "AI is secretly a plan to enslave us all" etc.
My intent was to challenge these things and see who would respond genuinely and who would just stick to the script. It's been quite interesting. Also, honestly it felt good not to be intimidated or spun out in a thread full of sarcasm, ridicule, ad hominem attacks etc.
As for the downvotes, oh well... Most of the rest of my time here is generally positive. Sometimes though it feels good to stand up and say what I think, even if it costs some fake internet points lol
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
Okay.
The thing is that I'm in Toronto—the same city that Kevin O'Leary's from—and while my view of him was never great, it took a deep dive in 2024 when IIUC he agreed that Canada should join the US, and now he's going on about critics of data centers being fronts for the Chinese (even though I'm sure he's dealt with the Chinese in preference to North American businesses at times).
Further, as one who for the most part doesn't agree with "intellectual property" I'm kind of with the Chinese on this one as I don't consider the "theft" of IP a big problem, and resent the US government insisting that we (Canada) should tighten up (I think we should go far in the opposite direction);
and while I'm anti-CPC, I tire of the Sinophobia, such as O'Leary's use of it, so when you started to sound like him, I, and probably others here, thought, "Oh no, here we go again."
(btw, I didn't downvote you: I rarely downvote people)
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 24d
What does responding genuinely mean to you? Is it so hard to believe that people, especially those on here, hate data centers? To me it seems like your intent was just to confirm your view that the place is an echo chamber. Hearing "yeah it's all Chinese bots everything is actually great 👍" is what you wanted to find?
I... Did you really type that sentence?
str82L@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 24d
So I did as commanded
"BPI provides the research, education, and expertise necessary to help America lead in the digital asset revolution while protecting consumers and preserving individual liberty."
They sound just lovely and definitely have all our best interests at heart. And totally not bitcoin shills, nosiree.
domusaltera@piefed.social · -4 pts · 24d
Nice cherry picking... Allow me:
BPI operates as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit with research and editorial independence. The core team consists of around 25 fellows, advisors, and full-time professionals, including:
Grant McCarty: Executive Director
Matthew Pines: Director of Special Programs / Senior Fellow
Sam Lyman: Head of Research (formerly of the U.S. Treasury Department)
David Zell: President
The institute acts as an educational and advisory resource for lawmakers, regulators, and the media.
Direct Engagement: BPI regularly briefs Congressional members and agency staff, provides expert testimonies, and shapes federal and state legislation.
Congressional Fellowship: BPI operates a fellowship program to train policymakers and their staff on the fundamentals of Bitcoin technology and policy.
Bitcoin Policy Summit: BPI hosts an annual flagship conference in Washington, D.C., that brings together regulators, researchers, and industry leaders to discuss digital asset policy.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
Who funds them?
The fossil fuel industry, crypto bros, Kevin O'Leary, and other MAGA riff-raff?
str82L@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 24d
Is this cherry picking too? 682df013e55cf277195c3034_BPI Policy Manifesto 20 May 2025.pdf https://share.google/fUP3qeJbPSQI0yCuP in which the title is literally "BITCOIN POLICY INSTITUTE A Comprehensive Policy Framework for U.S. Leadership on Bitcoin Zack Shapiro" sorry about the Google share, can't find it linked anywhere else. In this policy recommendation they advocate for establishing a US Bitcoin strategic reserve. C'mon now, spin that one as it being for protection of the little guy.
goldfndr@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 23d
https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/627aa615676bdd562bec97cd/682df013e55cf277195c3034_BPI%20Policy%20Manifesto%2020%20May%202025.pdf
str82L@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23d
Thanks for fixing that.
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 24d
You think a Bitcoin based outlet is not biased on power usage and individual economic growth over society's? Good critical thinking
domusaltera@piefed.social · -5 pts · 24d
Google "are foreign powers trying to turn people against data centers?" I'll wait...
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 24d
I'm cheering for them, yea. If you think it's those pesky Chinese and Russians, those "foreign powers" include the UN and most other countries btw.
But I'm sure it's just because they don't understand the American economic genius. Anyway all of this is not a problem because the real solution is datacenters in space right?
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d
Again, there's a lot of crap on Google.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
There's a lot of crap on Google, but no article about this "Bitcoin Policy Institute" in WP.
DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d
*links to a "Bitcoin Policy Institute"
sounds legit.
:-/
gh0stcassette@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 24d
Oh fuck off. Don't tell me we've got corpo shill bots on Lemmy too now💀