In the past week I've been absolutely roasted for criticising two different countries. Normally I'd be okay with that, I can handle a mild toasting and after all debate is a good thing.
On both occasions though I was flamed for mentioning human rights issues that are established facts and have been known for many, many years. I was critical of the actions/laws of their governments and not the people, their race, religion, general political ideology or nationality.
On both occasions I was bombarded by long posts that parroted propaganda, and in the case of one country I was told (on multiple occasions) that I was ignorant, racist and even fascist for mentioning the issues I did. I'm not complaining about how I was treated, but as a reminder, I was discussing internationally-recognised human rights concerns that can be verified and based in fact.
I could just be paranoid but I'm fairly convinced the responses weren't from patriotic citizens. I think they were paid trolls or bots, and I think their purpose was to quiet negative talking points about the countries that were mentioned.
Has anyone else had a similar experience?
269 Comments
disregardable@lemmy.zip · 150 pts · 21d
Some of the lemmy.ml people are weirdly intolerant of beliefs that they don't personally hold. It's not the userbase as a whole. You just gotta expect it from them.
Phantaloons@piefed.zip · 77 pts · 20d
lmao the way they all type, it's more like the same dude and 200 alt accounts. They all react the same, give the same info, use the same insults. It's like a Facebook group.
Triumph@fedia.io · 29 pts · 20d
Bizarro MAGA
AskewLord@piefed.social · 8 pts · 20d
because they all believe the same bullshit verison of marxism leninism and they think it's the Word of God and will creating the Utopia.
Phantaloons@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 20d
They tout Marxism then present China as some utopia.
"I love chocolate cake!"
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 18d
Nobody touts China as a utopia, but China does follow classical Marxist economics. I think you see Marx as predicting a far-future society as being fully collectivized and planned globally as also believing any socialist state must immediately become that far-future society, which is ironically the very Utopianism Marx and Engels spent so much effort debunking in their lifetimes.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 20d
And stale bread from the soviet union.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d
It's crazy watching you guys build up your mythology about us while making it clear that you've never actually read anything we say, because this is literally the opposite of what we say. At a certain point it's just like "yeah that version of us you have does sound bad, but it also doesn't resemble us at all, so whatever."
NathanUp@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d
I mean, I'm not an ML. I just happened to wind up on this instance.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 1 pts · 20d
I think they all just use an LLM to make their posts for them.
Phantaloons@piefed.zip · 4 pts · 20d
Most of them aren't even Chinese by the way their replies come and go. Hot hours mark most of them as Euros.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · -1 pts · 20d
The biggest supporters of authoritarian communism have always been middle class western kids.
AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 18d
I love coming back from a 1 line post to a reply with 12 paragraphs with citations like 7 minutes later. It's like opening a present on llm Christmas. No one calls them out like they're actually typing all that.
Honestly if they were actually typing all that, it would be genuinely psychotic and scary.
tired_n_bored@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 20d
Since I blocked that instance my lemmy experience has been so great
jimmy90@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 20d
YES LEMMY HAS A MASSIVE PROPAGANDA PROBLEM
the level of utter bullshit parroted on Lemmy is on an astonishing level. anything political, international or even technological is broken beyond belief and descends into hatred almost immediately.
you can have discussions on Lemmy but you'll have to wade through all the horrible people that got banned from reddit for very obvious reasons
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d
Says the Zionist
MissJinx@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 20d
I think its more than this. Some of them came to my dms sounding more like (i'm sorry if I sound crazy) china agents. They really seem like they are doing this for a living and to live
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social · 74 pts · 21d
If they were .ml, hexbear, or several other instance users... Yea. Their instances are echo chambers for their own dumbass ideologies.
Different instances have different ideologies and cultures they prefer, which cannot happen on twitter or other monolith services.
You'll just have to learn to ignore the absolute braindead takes rampant from some instances, and don't feel bad for blocking the cretins that don't care for human rights.
PostaL@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 20d
No you don't :)
You can block them, or whole instances, depending on the client your are using
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 51 pts · 20d
A KGB agent and a CIA agent meet up for drinks off the clock, and after a few drinks they start to talk shop. The CIA agent extols the strength of the Party's propaganda, "All your citizens believe the propaganda! It's incredible! So little dissent." The KGB agent responds, "No my friend no, we are good at what we do, but you are the true masters of the art. No one at all questions your propaganda!" to which the CIA agent says, confused, "What do you mean? We don't have propaganda?"
gaiussabinus@lemmy.world · 50 pts · 20d
If you mentioned China or Russia in these comments then yes there are lots of tankies. And yes they parrot propaganda but you may actually be interacting with someone who has internalised said propaganda not an organized campaign like you would see on reddit and Facebook. So view it as an opportunity to interact rather than something to wholely avoid.
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 20d
I was banned for being involved because I used the word tankie. They didn't care about my arguments. So fuck this view, they're as lost as MAGAts.
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 20d
I think one was a post about China in .ml, and the other may have been a response to something about S.A., didnt bother checking much further.
NathanUp@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 20d
Also worth mentioning that there is propaganda on both sides: it's really difficult to know what's true. People also like to throw around terms without knowing what they mean and make assumptions that may not be grounded in fact (E.G., communism = authoritarianism: there are entire communist schools of thought dedicated to critiquing authoritarianism and how power has been / should be used in communist projects).
Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 20d
On some level it's all true, there's no consolidation of power that's perfectly clean. Power is amassed from asymmetric exchanges, so there is some victim somewhere whenever it is amassed.
If it's violence or just the threat of violence, or if the exchange was voluntary or not it's the same.
NathanUp@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 19d
A great point. That's exactly the problem the libertarian socialists have been trying to solve for 100 years, and they have actually recorded some pretty intelligent thoughts on the matter in that time.
I get so frustrated with the "communism is unequivocally bad because my oligopolistic government told me so since childhood and I've never actually looked into it" crowd. Not because of their beliefs, but because they're grounded in nothing of substance. And any attempt at all to say "well have you actually thought about this, because there's nuance" is met with foaming mouths and flying spittle.
(Prefacing this with a disclaimer, because reading comprehension is in the toilet these days, that in the following paragraph I am addressing a hypothetical "you" and I am not actually asking anyone these questions)
Like, communism bad? Sure, maybe. Let's talk about it. Okay, which communist ideology are you talking about? And are you talking about the ideology itself, or the specific ways in which various projects have attempted to implement it? Do those implementation attempts align with the ideology? Why or why not? And are you aware of the critiques of that ideology and / or approach by other communists, or are you just parroting what you've heard from other people who also have not read a book on the topic?
I genuinely do not not have it in me to care what people believe, but seeing people react like agitated weasels—screaming, crying, and flailing when something they in no way understand is raised in conversation just makes me despair for the species, and wonder whether people actually put any thought into their positions at all!
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 20d
Such a shame all countries that have catched communism have descended into dictatorships huh.
Also the "both sides" is such an outdated propaganda lie, used to deflect what is actually discussed (most classic: What About the USA??!).
NathanUp@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d
Almost like the anti-authoritarian schools of thought aren't adopted by people who are keen to size state power or something, eh? Like those people would adopt different tactics or something? Like, maybe Juche and Anarcho-Syndicalism are different things with different approaches?
So, are you saying that anti-communist propaganda doesn't exist?
In my original comment, I wasn't making an argument for or against communism. What I was saying is that people don't know what they're talking about and react on a hair trigger (because of years of propaganda). And you've just illustrated that beautifully.
Like, I don't care what you believe, but maybe pick up a book and come to understand an ideology before you criticize it?
Love your paintings by the way. Especially the one with the window on the yellow wall. I'd totally buy a print of that.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 19d
Lol continue running around in circles 😂
"U stopid, read this propaganda book"
Sure mr who hasn't fallen for the propaganda itself lol.
Blocked.
NathanUp@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 19d
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 40 pts · 20d
Yes, Hexbear and the .ml instances are fully CCP and Russia brainwashed.
The rest is actually mostly fine, although the German instances have a really hard time with criticism of the IDF, but that's a historical issue they will grow out of.
9bananas@feddit.org · 11 pts · 20d
the german instances have to be extremely careful when it comes to anything jewish related, because the instance admins could face jailtime if they're not careful.
feddit.org is hosted in vienna; Austria has extremely strict laws against anything that could be considered antisemitism.
that's why they are so touchy on the subject:
they have to cover their asses legally.
Console_Modder@sh.itjust.works · 36 pts · 20d
You see, your problem is that you left a comment on a .ml instance that doesn't align with the hive mind. Those are places where someone will look you dead in the eye and tell you with the upmost certainty that China is a utopia and North Korea is the free-est country in the world. Tis a silly place
I am probably gonna find a pipebomb in my mailbox
LostCarcosan@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 20d
Accidentally reading a post from .ml and not realizing it is a wild experience. For a second I thought everyone was just being super sarcastic, y'know, saying things ironically like if I said I was having a wonderful time in traffic. Then I realized it was an .ml post and everyone was serious
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 20d
Oh man this 😂.
Arguing about something, then seeing it's a .ml user puts it all in a very different perspective (usually).
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 20d
They just give those away? How generous!
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 20d
It took me a while to realize this because I'm new to federated instances. When I learned "Oh, that's where the problems are" I removed them.
Triumph@fedia.io · 32 pts · 20d
The world has a propaganda problem. Fediverse is in the world.
Cherry@piefed.social · 31 pts · 20d
Don’t let the crazies make you self censor.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 20d
Thats what I was worried about. Half of me was like ”omg I'm never mentioning this country again". But then if its an established fact that said country is an egregious abuser of human rights then we should feel able to say it.
SupraMario@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 20d
It's just tankies, bunch of them come from .ml and since a lot of people block them, some have gotten wise and moved to a few other instances unfortunately. Tag them or block them and avoid interacting with .ml
Also remember the devs are both tankies...and not like "I have a USSR flag on the wall", but full on CCP/putin/ruzzia shills.
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -1 pts · 20d
I'll happily call a tankie just a wannabe maga to their face.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 19d
You're very brave
Phantaloons@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 20d
On the contrary, walk right up to their front door and bang on it.
SuiXi3D@fedia.io · 4 pts · 20d
I needed to see this today. Thank you.
PapaSkwat@lemmy.today · -3 pts · 19d
Totally this!
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 20d
You probably spoke to .ml users. They are some of the most wilfully ignorant pro-CCP and pro-Kremlin users. Some are, without a doubt, paid trolls.
As another user mentioned, look if the username ends in .ml but there are such propagandists who have non-.ml accounts and post nonsensical verbages that .ml usually parrots.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 20d
don't forget dbzero
Alfredolin@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 19d
In my experience, dbzero is quite different. More anarchist as they claim themselves, much less defending (authoritarian) states and you don't get a cohort of downvotes when disagreeing (unless you meet on .ml grounds, which then is the usual .ml downvotes whatever you say).
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 19d
Problem with dbzero is they don't prune their own gardens, because why would they? that wouldn't be very anarchist of them would it? the amount of ml/hexbear/programming.dev trolls on their instance makes dbzero seem similar to ml.
further lemmy.ca has the same problem but instead of communists it's conservatives/maga. I wouldn't doubt if Russian and Chinese troll farms weren't using lemmy.ca accounts to fan the flames of descent between the rest of the world and the US.
edible_funk@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 19d
And hexbear.
Katana314@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 20d
China, right? Yeahhh…
It sucks because I’ve been hearing about advances in social living out there, as well as seeing its indie game development scene explode, and I’m pretty envious and supportive - but I’m also absolutely going to highlight the worst of their government.
But unlike America, they don’t seem to have a notion of separating the government from its people. I know a random Chinese gamer isn’t responsible for Uyghur Muslim genocide. They still regard it as “xenophobia”, or “ignoring America’s crimes”.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 20d
The most annoying thing about the whole experience was being told I was doing this (besides not being American). If anything I'm more critical of US than any other country.
Its not good vs evil. Just because one country does bad things it doesnt make them inherently bad or automatically make the opposite side good.
3abas@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 20d
You benefit from America's imperialist crimes directly and you (Americans largely, I don't know you personally) do ignore them.
9-11 two buildings downed and the next two decades you genocide Iraqis for oil with 9-11 as justification. You labeled every middle eastern a terrorist and you're close to doing it again for Israel. You do not separate people from governments or even militant groups you funded and trained, typically.
Americans lack of regard for the crimes of their empire is directly responsible for the suffering of the global south. Your country commits genocide and all you care to do about it is right amongst yourselves over which capitalist funded genocide supporting political party should rule.
I don't know the context of your comments and the replies, you could have linked them but you didn't, and I don't feel like going through your comment history. But it does appear you don't understand the role American imperialism plays in the world and how Americans benefit from the direct suffering of other nations.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 20d
Americans have been protesting of piss poor foreign policy of their country. That is why isolationism have become a popular platform after all to run on. But in China? You don't see people protesting against Beijing claiming the entire South China Sea. Russia arrests anyone who protests against the war in Ukraine. There is an ocean of difference.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 20d
thanks for feeding my block list
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · -1 pts · 20d
If you want to highlight China's failures, pick real ones, like their support of Israel, willingness to sell arms to American vassals like Philippines that are used to crush revolutionary movements, the invasions of Vietnam, not fabrications by western media.
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 24 pts · 20d
Was it Russia and China by any chance?
madcaesar@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 20d
Both governments are assholes. As is USA and Israel. Add North Korea, Saudi Arabia and all other religious dictatorships to the list.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 19d
There's people going a little too hard on supporting Iran right now just because they're embarrassing America or gleeful that any western aligned nation in the region is getting bombed, as if any of the citizens in the cross fire had any choice in that.
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 20d
Lemmy is a software; there are multiple instances (servers) that run lemmy and federate (talk) to each other. So it does not sanitise your feed the way corporate social media does. The advantage is that you do not end up in an echo chamber. The downside is that you get the weirdest and most incoherent conspiracy theories known to man. But you're (hopefully) an adult, and can use your reason to decide what's what.
enemyofsun@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 17 pts · 20d
I wouldn't be so sure about that haha
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 11 pts · 20d
But its easier to pick or flip between echo chambers!
baatliwala@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 20d
Your instance literally determines your echo chamber lol. And if you run your own then you determine whom you want to federate with. Unless you regularly flip between instances you're very certainly in one.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 19d
How they do?
I am only scrolling the Home feed. No local or global feed.
Terrapinjoe@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 20d
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 20d
finally. propper gender
normonator@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 19d
Block and move on. I think I've blocked most of ml at this point, but there are a few normal users. At least 2.
Soggy@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 19d
Blocking bad-faith-arguers and general shitheads has definitely improved my experience on the internet.
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu · 2 pts · 19d
That's way more than on Reddit by at least 2!
VonReposti@feddit.dk · 3 pts · 18d
c/unexpectedfactorial
Oh... Nevermind.
tixnou@feddit.cl · 17 pts · 20d
i think people are too quick to call anyone like that a "paid troll". like i just don't think one can reasonably expect a government like china to waste their resources on a platform as small as the threadiverse...
lucullus@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 20d
Also often they would not need to pay anyone. Especially for cases like china or the US there are already enough people, that are so deep in the ideology, that they will do it in their free time. Lots of of such people everywhere.
zxqwas@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 20d
Do they come from lemmy.ml? Just ignore them and move on, to them tearing down the Berlin wall was a mistake.
northernlights@lemmy.today · 16 pts · 20d
I see it as a bit of a problem that the biggest communities are in .ml . As a new user if you look up communities based on your interests you basically end up with half your subscriptions being .ml
AskewLord@piefed.social · 0 pts · 20d
yeah i made that mistake when i was new here.
the dogpile and death threats reminded me of reddit!
aloofPenguin@piefed.world · -1 pts · 20d
death threats?!?!
sheesh, they really are unhinged. thank goodness I blocked them almost immediately upon joining since I heard about them, but this is something we need to improve on imo, perhaps a sort of warning?
doubt it will happen though, since Lemmy devs are the instance admins, but maybe on some neutral instance chooser site or the other? (may already exist and I don't know about it)
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 19d
Or maybe they're lying to you
AskewLord@piefed.social · 0 pts · 19d
yes an yes, that is very much the issue. .ml is not going to label themselves ad violent and delusional, they think the rest of us are that, because they project.
aloofPenguin@piefed.world · 0 pts · 18d
sigh very typical....
if this problem gets too out of hand, my mind went to defederation. perhaps too extreme? there has to be a reason the .world admins didn't do it yet. idk if .social defed from ml, but perhaps reason...?
AskewLord@piefed.social · 0 pts · 18d
they don't because the mods want users to make up their own minds. and that's fine.
I don't want admins/mods making my choices for me, I want to make them myself.
PapaSkwat@lemmy.today · -3 pts · 19d
I've gotten death threats and stalkers too.Some extremist users in the fediverse are very unhinged and have no life.
Montagge@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 19d
I see you've met hexbear and lemmy.ml. They're not trolls or bots. They're just plain ol' idiots.
ptz@dubvee.org · 16 pts · 20d
How to reduce Fediverse propaganda by 80% or more:
Note: Replace "lemmy.world" in the URL with your instance. e.g.
https://your-instance.xyz/settingsIf your instance isn't already de-federated from them, repeat for
lemmygrad.mlandhexbear.netand/orhexbear.com- whichever they use these days.jobbies@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 20d
Ahh, nice one! Thats really helpful, thanks!
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -2 pts · 20d
Hexbear.net is the one with the best emojis.
AskewLord@piefed.social · 16 pts · 20d
the world is full of useful idiots who derive meaning from being propaganda parrots.
it sucks, but just block them. they aren't going away, and in their POV you are the propagandist.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 20d
Community and instance level blocks are especially helpful, since this stuff is most concentrated in particular places
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 20d
OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 20d
Whenever I’ve encountered propaganda or have been flamed for talking about human rights, etc. it’s been from instances ending in “.ml”.
I don’t know what that means, but I would like to be able to block all “.ml” users.
BigBrainBrett2517@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 20d
I'm no expert but I think you can block whole instances, yes.
Sightline@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 20d
You can it's in the settings. I blocked the ".ml" instance.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 20d
that blocks posts but not comments.
Sightline@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 19d
TIL
josephc@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 20d
Honestly, same. :| The memes community is particularly gnarly at times. I wish I could shuffle my account like I can on Masto and keep my old posts.
Alfredolin@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 19d
AFAIK .ml is meant as TLD for Mali and in this case(s) has been chosen to reflect their views as standing for "marxist-leninist".
jdr@lemmy.ml · -8 pts · 20d
ml is the ur-instance
you are powerless
say something nice about Pol Pot
Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 20d
SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 20d
Uh...I like that Dead Kennedy's song?
jdr@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 19d
The Central Committee has decided not to execute you! (for now)
dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 20d
Lemmy has a echo chamber problem.
People don't want to challenge their beliefs, their want a space in which all agree on the same stupid thing.
When I joined I was curious about how Lemmy/federation works. When it was explained to me it was said that with this approach there will be no one big Hitler who controls the discourse.
I had a hunch that this means that we will just get a bunch of smaller Hitlers. And... Well..
The problem in itself is that Lemmy means that you host a whole bunch of communities. Thats to much power concentrated in one place.
It should be that everyone hosts one community and all communities can talk to each other.
Then an Ideologie wouldn't have a one-stop-for-all place to fester.
Everyone of us is an idiot in some way. We need other people with different views to make us aware of our idiocy. Otherwise we stay ignorant and stupid.
So I don't think you interacted with bots. You interacted with cultists.
mrmaplebar@fedia.io · 7 pts · 20d
It's a trade-off between accessibility and power. On platforms like Reddit, power is totally concentrated within the corporation that controls the service, but they allow any old dunce without any technical skills to make a subreddit, making it very accessible to the average person.
On the flip side, if every community was its own server, the power hierarchy would be much more flat, but the ability to make a community would be reserved mainly for people with sysadmin skills and money. It also would make discoverability and community more difficult to maintain.
In other words, I think the Threadiverse strikes a nice balance. It's certainly not perfect, but there's no right answer.
dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 20d
That may be true but I'm talking about echo chambers here and how to avoid them better.
And in that case I would argue that a place where a generell topic (music, sport, television), is the driving point for accumulation of user is better at preventing that, then something like a whole ideology themed reddit which then has a ideology themed sports community, ideology themed music community, ideology themed television community and so on.
blarghly@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 20d
Hitlers all the way down
dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 20d
Lemmy is just three Hitlers in a trenchcoat.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 19d
USA, China and Russia?
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 3 pts · 20d
You my friend, are like a very welcome breath of fresh air.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 19d
My dream is a federated community
I envision it as a community hub that like-minded sister channels can subscribe to and submit the posts of their local community
A: It will help with duplicated posts on the various sister groups
B: Moderated posts on an instance will still be moderated the same way.
Apeman42@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 21d
Yes, I've definitely noticed a spike in people lately rushing to glaze the rich and/or the US when they're rightfully criticized.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 33 pts · 20d
I truly cannot think of a single time I've seen someone glazing the US on Lemmy lmao
I'm sure it's happened somewhere sometime but a rush? I don't think so.
AskewLord@piefed.social · 5 pts · 20d
if by 'glaze over' they mean 'don't condemn unconditionally as a hellscape and source of all evil in the world', there are plenty of posters like that. myself included.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 20d
The hilarious thing was because of what I'd said, more than one response accused me of being a maga-supporting american moron. I've never even been to US 😅
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 20d
That's when they run out of arguments.
I got a lot of "libtard", I still don't really know what it's supposed to be, usa-democrat in a perogative way maybe? I'm a euro btw and have neither been to the usa lol.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 19d
I've experienced this, but only for Russia and China specifically. Most of it your typical tankie behavior, but not all of it comes from ml users.
BonkTheAnnoyed@piefed.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 20d
Yes, anytime China is criticized for human rights abuses (and rightly so) replies are flooded with wall-of-text "rasonable explainers" sealioning why one should never criticize China, especially not Americans.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 19d
I was once told I was racist against Chinese people because I didn't like how democracy was crushed in Hong Kong and I didn't like all of the threats against Taiwan. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
cepelinas@sopuli.xyz · 13 pts · 19d
Thats .ml for you where they decided to be so left leaning that they did a u-turn to totaliarism.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 20d
So many comments about blocking.
Whatever happened to just ignoring people? Everyone these days is block this block that.
I have been online since bbs days, never blocked anyone. I don't get it.
I would rather notice the bullshit repeating talking points and ignore then then pretend they dont exist. Helps keep my aware.
Don't feed the troll, but no need to not acknowledge they are there.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 11 pts · 20d
online should be like real life. if you think someone is an asshole you don't hang around them. Back when the internet was smaller the whole broader perspective thing made sense but now its increasingly crap with small amounts of decent things. To have any chance of seeing the decent things you have to block the crap before it lands.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 20d
I haven't really noticed that though. It's always been some loudmouths.
Just like in real life I can hear them talking, it's a public space, but I can ignore them without tossing them out of the bar.
I guess the big difference I see today is people get worked up on the internet.
Internet 101: everyone is a liar, nothing said here matters until you want it to.
Once you get that mindset, it's just more effort to block than roll eyes and move on.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 3 pts · 20d
just doesn't work that way. this loudmouth is involved in a discussion you are having once your on the same post. its like your all around a table. anyway you do you but I will continue to filter my feed. remember that subscribing and viewing subscribed is the equivalent of blocking everything you don't subscribe to. I generally look through all and the blocks get rid of stuff I don't care for.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 20d
I never really have that problem I guess. I just move on, they aren't sitting next to me anymore.
Sad it gets to this point. I have seen people block others over one stupid argument, only to notice they actually are allies in other realms. But they will never know because they shut down all chances of a dialog forever.
But hey, it's just some randos on the internet so I guess it doesn't matter anyway.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 20d
well blocking off one thing is kinda silly. you have to take into account your own possible moods. Most people I know you talk about it do like me. check over the history, see if they are always like this or have other indicators. piefed allows making notes on users now so I can just mark them which makes it easier to be more time before blocking. Its honestly way worse than real life. that guy who talks to himself at the 711 is no longer there. hes online all day pretty much.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 20d
I guess you make a good point, there are far more people online then ever before, people tend to spout off at just about anything, and you have the tools to make some choices about your time spent dealing with it all.
Reasonable answer.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 20d
thanks and I mean I recommend people block as they feel they need it but if they don't I don't care. its their experience im just giving advice.
RoddyStiggs@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 20d
This is a good example of propaganda in kind of a meta form.
Propaganda works through exposure and subsequent peer pressure. Comments like this influencing people not to block are applying social pressure to conform and then ensuring further exposure. It's likely this account belongs to an agent with a vested interest in a niche or destructive idea.
Would be wise to block it.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 20d
Lol you think you should block me because I am propagandizing?
Lol wtf. Seriously WTF.
At this point you become a bizarre person who hides from everything because it's all "propaganda".
Wow. You really are not very good at the internet.
Edit: wait a minute! This person is trying to peer pressure others into blocking me. Maybe they are the propaganda and don't want anyone to consider that everyone is an anonymous liar on the internet because then they will not engage in the propaganda! I say you should block them!
This is so stupid.
tristynalxander@mander.xyz · 7 pts · 20d
RoddyStiggs@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 20d
My job is done here.
DougPiranha42@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 20d
To each their own. I don’t want to see ads on my devices, so I only browse apps or sites where there are no ads or ad blockers can effectively hide them. I don’t want to see idiotic and offensive content in my feed, so I block communities, users, and instances from whom I don’t expect to miss hearing from. I started my lemmy with the same disappointment that OP is describing here. The best advice I got was to block the crazies. It worked. The ability to QC the feed is what makes lemmy worthwile imo, otherwise it would be a flood of spam and propaganda, like the rest of social media.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 20d
I guess I just am not subscribed to where those people are.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 4 pts · 20d
Listen, I had to block the guy constantly posting flaming head comics. Shits garbage.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 12 pts · 19d
The world has a propaganda problem. Governments and regimes worldwide have been spending millions and millions in propaganda for a century, the society we live in is rotten to the core, the average person is brainwashed to pick a side and thinking in left and right. Mass media have been a tool of the propaganda and have been used as a distraction weapon since their creation.
Lemmy borrowed it's layout from reddit which is shaped and tailored around censure and propaganda. Just look at the all frontpage, the most popular subs are the same as reddit and you can't really post anything useful in these, your observation about propaganda had to be turned into a question to fit in the ask lemmy sub.
AlexisFR@jlai.lu · 11 pts · 19d
Let me guess, Lemmy.ml? That's normal, that instance (and lemmy as a project) was created because the creators were too extreme for /r/communism and thus banned from it.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 18d
Actually, it was because r/GenZedong was banned. r/communism is more extreme than the devs, because they (along with r/communism101) support Gonzalo and the Shining Path of Peru, which Marxist-Leninists do not.
apple_train@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 19d
This place has a very communist leaning userbase and with that comes a with a lot of tankies and chiaboos.
In the end USA and Europe have a lot of similar issues and that's growing so it's not like they are morally superior, but ya know tankies and co are very good at ignoring issues just as much as any red blood American.
deft@lemmy.wtf · 7 pts · 19d
"communist"
FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io · 9 pts · 20d
Kinda but some places are way worse than others (Hexbear, .ml, and lemmygrad come to mind as the most egregious, but I think Hexbear is actually gone now).
Bongles@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 20d
Unless it's within the last day or two, hexbear hasn't gone anywhere. The instance I'm on hasn't defederated from them and I haven't blocked them and I see their stuff all the time.
FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io · 1 pts · 20d
Ah, they lost their instance for a while there.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 19d
Why does it matter if the responses are from patriotic citizens or not?
"Bad faith" is lunacy, who cares? Arguments matter all on their own, regardless of the motivation for making them.
Of course you "think" they are paid trolls or bots, we all see that constantly. My first post on Reddit years ago was followed immediately by charges of being a Russian spy. Maybe they were a Russian spy and I was diversion?
Anyway, troll, bot, human, paid or not, irrelevant. The discussion is seen by others and judged on the merit of the argument itself. Stop worrying about the source, as you can never know, so it doesn't matter. It's not as if you get better results by talking to an unpaid patriotic person. Same shit.
Propaganda problem? Not at all. Every form of social media is rife with propaganda, as is every paper, website, news channel, and so on. How could Lemmy be any different?
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 19d
The mentality that everything is an opinion and all opinions are valid is an sign of acute internet brainrot.
The truth actually exists. You've spent too much time on the internet if you think in terms of "choose your own reality".
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 19d
I think the point there is that the random opinions are valid because they are just opinions. Either they're based on wrong or incomplete information or they aren't. If you can get past that hurdle the discourse can offer corrections or fill in the blanks.
The arguments being made either have merit or they don't. The ones with merit would approach that truth you mentioned, and the ones that don't obscure it. If that makes any sense.
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 20d
It's usually pro-Russian or pro-Chinese tankies that you can disregard readily as MAGAts. They're worse than that to me, they're pretending to be left for freedom when they're boot lickers.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 19d
"Communists are worse than fascists" is indeed a take I expect from western liberals.
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 20d
Nobody is pro-russia, Putin and his cronies (with help from the west) helped destroy the USSR, cause the largest drop in human life expectancy outside war or natural disaster in modern history, and bring about the current fascist dictatorship, you just perceive it that way because they don't support another fascist dictatorship.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 19d
Most "socialists" don't care about ideology, it's more about the aesthetic and hating western countries. They have weird fantasies about BRICS being a real force in the world and destroying western economies or something like that. It's mostly just a vague angst mixed with contrarianism with no real consistency. We generally call these people tankies because they usually identify as socialist (even if few of them even know what that actually is) and they're fans of countries that fight against any country that's aligned with the west as if geopolitics is a support.
So yes, tankies often do support Russia. It may not make sense, but tankies don't ever make much sense.
mavu@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 19d
PSA: in the settings you can block whole instances, and if you want to eliminate this annoying problem, just block *.lemmy.ml and any instance that contains the string "hexbear".
Problem solved.
deft@lemmy.wtf · 9 pts · 19d
100% but I wouldn't call it a problem. I find it's often refreshing to see the stupidity around you and not have it hidden behind a veil. I think you also get more genuine information here it just requires more from you to not get got.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 20d
Possibly. Me personally, I'm not getting paid to post. Not yet. I'm working up to that. Eventually, I plan to print out pro-China comments I've made and fax them to the Chinese embassy in the hopes that they'll hire me. For now, I'm just padding out my CV.
This whole conspiracy theory is so bonkers. Lemmy was created by communists. You look inside, you find communists, and then it's all this "What!? People who disagree with me!? On the internet!?!?!? Impossible! They must be paid secret agents!!!!"
If you want to avoid the existential horror of realizing that people exist with different views from you, different instances have different user experiences, and you're free to choose one that doesn't federate with communists.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 19d
It's very well documented that Russia, China, Iran and others operate troll farms to influence people on the internet.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d
I remember in 2016 when all those pro Trump comments on reddit were being made by users only active during Russia working hours until it got pointed out.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d
Just those countries?
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 19d
They're the top three.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -6 pts · 19d
There are levels.
And your instance is on a particular one. More so than other ones.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 19d
Vagueposting
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · -7 pts · 20d
This is not about having different opinions, this about a solid group within Lemmy spouting oblivious propaganda
Objection@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 20d
Where "propaganda" is defined as "having different opinions," yes.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 19d
"Its not about X, it's about X!"
You really can just say anything
Kissaki@feddit.org · 8 pts · 20d
Depends very much on the instances and connected instances you interact with.
I haven't seen it excessively or broadly in the way you describe. I've seen strong one-sided and often ideological or presumptuous opinions on some tech topics, which may not be deliberate or orchestrated propaganda, but kinda works the same.
If you want to look into or try a save space, take a look at beehaw.org.
Otherwise, I'd check your instance's policies and whether they disconnect from certain other Lemmy instances.
Regarding your self-perception, given your thoughtful, well-formulated, and mindful text here, I believe you that your comments were mindful and not excessively wrong or disrespectful.
tristynalxander@mander.xyz · 8 pts · 20d
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 20d
What's mander's deal. I know dbz's and solar punk's deal, but didn't know mander had an ideology bias.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 19d
You called out my instance? :p
Jk, just here because I heard first about it on r/piracy
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 19d
More or less saying that I'm aware y'all ascribe to anarchy. And like many others, I didn't know exactly what it entailed until the Ben Jordan video a few months back.
tristynalxander@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 20d
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 19d
Thanks for explaining it to me dude!
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 19d
Turns out that when you define "propaganda" as "anything that I disagree with", and then go to spaces where a lot of people disagree with you, you're going to see a lot of "propaganda".
pirate2377@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 20d
Yeah, but I've noticed that most of it is from memes@lemmy.ml specifically, so not sure if Lemmy has a propaganda problem broadly, or if its just specific sublemmys that are just infested with tankies along with possibly some bots keeping them in a ecochamber. I've since stopped engaging with them though since I've realized it's just a waste of time to since they are so far in their own reality that there's nothing that I can say that they will actually listen to
Test_Tickles@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 20d
There is always a substantial uptick as any major election gets closer in the US. With midterms coming up you can guarantee that the bots and paid propagandists each with their own dozen or more sock puppets come crawling out of the woodwork.
It's a problem everywhere, not just Lemmy. It is just sometimes more obvious here sometimes because it is such a small community.
It's not hard to identify the paid shitbags. Comments rarely build up votes or down votes quickly. They can take literal days to gain traction. But somehow, if you call out certain comments at the bottom of an argument chain where the combatants stopped bothering to even downvote each other because literally none else is going to read that far, you can still somehow get half a dozen down votes in a matter of seconds.
kbal@fedia.io · 8 pts · 20d
I suspect that your vague, unsubstantiated feelings that someone you had a passing interaction with might have been a bot (it's possible! who knows!) is not the valuable contribution to this community that you presumably thought it was going to be.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 20d
I deliberately left it vague because I didnt want this to turn into a similar bunfight. And if in 'unsubstantiated' you mean there's no evidence - I deleted said evidence cos of the responses I was getting.
I didnt say it definitely was bots, I said it might have been. Given what's happened over on Reddit I think its something we should be vigilent about.
Well aren't you a wonderful human being. Your mother must be so proud.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 19d
Meaning what, exactly? Do you really think the experience is improved by everyone screaming "bot!" At everyone who disagrees with them?
NewPerspective@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 20d
https://lemmy.world/post/40009107
In addition to .ml, you've got people like DonaldJMusk. I didn't believe them at the time about 300 accounts, but I can believe a dozen or so as I've been watching it happen for a year.
Just the other day somebody tried to call them on their bias... Banned.
https://lemmy.today/post/56628315
savvy@lemy.lol · 1 pts · 20d
What a douche. That papaskwat account banned me when I asked why they were posting a mix of real and AI art.
MissJinx@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 20d
Noob mistake. Been there done that. I'm banned from .ml for saying China bad. Welcome to the team
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 19d
You're lucky that none of the Reddit transplants here will actually bother to check your modlog.
Corvid_Moon@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 20d
What were the 2 countries you criticised?
Polyphilic@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 19d
Ive been here less than a week and have encountered multiple extremists, schizo level posts, and just ludicrous positions to take.
It's clear that things like moderates and centrism dont have much of a home here.
It is what it is but ill say this.
Do not be afraid to just block them, theres not that many people here.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 19d
You should remind yourself that your Overton window is not universal
otp@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 20d
... patriotic citizens? Lol.. citizens of where, the world? The internet?
That said, your question was probably answered. Lemmy.ml users can be a bit much
Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 20d
They obviously meant patriotic citizens of the countries in question
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 20d
It’s got a “how bout I take a propa ganda at them honkers” problem
Dozzi92@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 20d
That was beautiful.
sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 20d
There are a few topics that just can't be discussed rationally on here. I've blocked many communities and users, as well as setting up a keyword filter. I'm not here for much more than a diversion anyway.
OccamsTeapot@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 20d
As everyone else has said, there is definitely this issue on Lemmy, when criticising China and Russia especially. Happened to me a few times. It's weird.
I once did a test to see if the bias was really that bad and commented on a relevant news article on .ml something like "fuck Putin. Russia is committing war crimes in Ukraine" maybe with a couple of extra similar phrases. Comment deleted by mods with no explanation. Insane.
This is a common suggestion. I can see why people say it, but I just find it hard to believe people are really spending time here to do that. Wouldn't you just go to reddit? What, do you want to convert the trekkies and Linux evangelists?
I think it's much scarier than that: some people are just fucking nuts
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 20d
See to me it makes perfect sense and is kind of genius. Lemmy tends to be left-leaning anyway. Its a rich pool of people who you could convert to your far-left idiologies with a few "fuck MAGA"'s and "here's our awesome high-speed trains, our country is a utopia". Idea being those converts go on to do the work for you elsewhere.
OccamsTeapot@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 20d
I guess! Possibly high effort, low reward but it could work I suppose.
But I still think they're just people after this stage. Lots of people become communist on their own as well. You don't need to glaze China to do it but it probably creates a bit of cognitive dissonance to see how awful it is there. So you ignore stuff like the uyghurs and pretend it's amazing so you can pretend communism will work.
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 20d
I was being insulted and flamed on an ml instance when I posed China isn't my friend like the USA government. I reported the offending posts and was banned because I made mention these tankies seem angry over Taiwan. It's a cesspit, disregard it.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 18d
You weren't flamed for mentioning established facts, but for dogmatically repeating easily disproven claims. People brought receipts and explained how your views were not actually based on evidence but instead propaganda, and now you've deleted those comments, making it hard for others to verify that they were indeed wrong. You weren't using internationally-recognized consensus, but purely western consensus, portraying that western consensus as the totality of international thought.
Either way, no, no paid trolls nor bots, just a bunch of communists. Lemmy was made and developed by communists, so there are lots of communists here.
spectrums_coherence@piefed.social · 5 pts · 20d
Boy do I enjoy piefed's bidirectional blocking feature: I don't see their comments, and they don't see mine. We both live in pease (unless they are bots/trolls, then they live in pain muohaha)
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 20d
wait wait wait wait. is this a thing. do I need to set anything. I 100% always wanted this.
spectrums_coherence@piefed.social · 1 pts · 20d
I think bidirectional blocking is default on pifed, you just need to put whichever user/instance in your block list.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 19d
hey @rimu@piefed.social is this right because if so thanks.
rimu@piefed.social · 1 pts · 19d
Yes although when you post in a remote community the remote instance will send your content wherever. They don't know who you've blocked.
That's one of the reasons I post in local communities more, these days.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 19d
can't complain. Ill take half a loaf as its one of my most wanted features.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 19d
I guarantee user blocking is not bi-directional outside of piefed
aloofPenguin@piefed.world · 1 pts · 20d
does this extend to posts? I'm on Interstellar and I see posts from .ml users even though I have .ml blocked. So either this is working as intended or a quirk of the Interstellar client?
spectrums_coherence@piefed.social · 3 pts · 20d
I am not sure if that is intended.
On https://join.piefed.social/roadmap/ it states:
and on https://join.piefed.social/features/ :
Although the exact specification is not given. I personally have not recall seeing ml post, but maybe I didn't care enough to look.
rimu@piefed.social · 2 pts · 19d
Ah, I just found a bug here - the instance blocking wasn't checking the instance of the author, only the instance of the community. It checks both now.
Thanks for bringing this up!
aloofPenguin@piefed.world · 1 pts · 18d
I'm happy to help! thanks for fixing it quickly. :)
rimu@piefed.social · 1 pts · 19d
BonkTheAnnoyed@piefed.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 20d
My favorite though was when I spelled tanki wrong and left it because it was cute, and they were outraged that I would spell it wrong more so than calling them tanki.
Widdle tanki got a sad sad that someone was mean to poo poo
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 19d
Yeah that definitely didn't happen
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d
Ah, you must have encountered some tankies. I finally got tired of it and just blocked hexbear and .ml stuff. My lemmy experience is much better without it.
hexagonwin@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 21d
it's very easy to make many accounts here, it really could be just one motivated troll creating many posts/votes attempting to manipulate opinions.
i still think it's much better than other spaces on the net these days (esp reddit), but you should always keep it in mind.
also, some people from ml/grad do have a certain agenda(?).. lol
WereHacker@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 20d
ghost of communism has entered the chat
jobbies@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 20d
Good point, hadn't considered that.
pachrist@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d
One of the things I see a lot on Lemmy is people saying it reminds them of the old internet, and it does for me too, but alongside that comes a hefty dose of communism or anarchism, depending on the echo chamber.
Lemmy is a bit communist overall, but not the Marx and Trotsky kind. It's very authoritarian friendly. I am not sure why, but it is a little annoying.
The Holodomor is real, and it wasn't an accident.
Paradachshund@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 19d
I believe it's because the original software it's built on is created by a group with those views. That's what I've picked up on at least.
arararagi@ani.social · 0 pts · 19d
It is real, but it was an accident.
DudeImMacGyver@kbin.earth · 4 pts · 20d
Depends on where you are IMO, there's definitely at least a couple tankie instances with a very noticeable problem but there's probably others.
Wrongdoer2@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 20d
I had this feeling too
calmblue75@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 18d
Lemmy does have a propaganda problem, and it is not from the instances you're referring to.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 18d
Didnt refer to any instances mate
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 18d
They're from .ml, don't mind them.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 20d
The Fediverse should let that propagandist crap live forever, as long as he user still has the right to block/refuse. This avoids censorship and leaves the power in the people's hands. Peace and hope for the future to all!
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 19d
Mods block can arguments against what the propagandists post though. I'd be fine with this approach if it weren't for that, since it's pretty easy to make propagandists look like idiots. But mods step in to remove opposition to the propaganda.
There is a problem with stochastic terrorism and people being motivated to commit hate crimes because of things they read online. Sure those people will be proven wrong by history, but what about the people getting hurt or killed today?
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 19d
I agree with you but the sentence "what about the people getting hurt or killed today" can be applied to any point in time throughout history.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 19d
So? When you see the bad things that happened in history do you never wonder why nobody did anything to stop it from happening?
Nobody respects anyone for rationalizing their apathy.
BonkTheAnnoyed@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 20d
There's also the folks that try to discourage folks from participating in political change, be it by voting or protest by saying both sides are bad and it doesn't matter what we do.
It's a tellingly consistent message, that first began showing up in the last US presidential election.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 19d
This year i was sort of flamed 3 times and the 4th had me banned from some lemmy.ml community. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What I did (in my opinion. Can't say what the users interpreted)?
Advocate for equal gender rights
Say that China is bad (and the US)
Some other stuff about China or something which I forgot already
Call out unneccessary racism in a headline instead of just mentioning minorities or just residents that were being harmed by the musk-rat.
Was I right in those discussions? Mostly not or at least not from most angles
Was I 100% in the wrong? I wouldnt say so.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 19d
I've been banned from many communities on lemmy.ml.
Their ideas simply don't stand up to scrutiny, so they remove any scrutiny. They want to live in an alternate world where communism is good, and everyone else is stupid. They're not significantly different from flat earthers, qanon, maga, or any other delusional online group.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 19d
Bro just one more political purge bro, come on. Just oooone more political purge and communism is set.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 19d
Based on the actual modlog, you got banned for saying:
Which does indeed seem like trolling
TheStaffmaster@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 19d
I had to block most of the Bahjal instances because they are just a transfem echo chamber and refuse to listen to any viewpoint that is even one atom out of alignment with the idea that Trans people are the next evolution of humanity. I had to quit Imgur for a similar reason. Frustrating because I AM an Ally, just one that is also, ya know, a realist.
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu · 3 pts · 19d
In real life, i find that people calling themselves realists tend to be worn out pessimistics. (I'm part of that group on most days) It's the first stage towards submitting to the status quo...
arararagi@ani.social · -1 pts · 19d
You sound like a republican thinking they are oppressed, I hope I'm wrong.
TheStaffmaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 18d
I'm a progressive, Wrote in bernie twice. I'm just pissed off.
Maverick1155@fedinsfw.app · 2 pts · 19d
All websites are propaganda at this point.
datavoid@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 20d
Unfortunately the devs of lemmy and their instance (.ml) have some extremely questionable views, and they love to rile people up with false claims and bad faith arguments.
Some of their classics are that communism is the only acceptable form of society, and it is completely infallible. China and Russia have never done anything bad, and left wing people in democracies are just as bad as the right. Socialism bad, communism good. PS, you are a capitalist pig.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 19d
No they don't, they just genuinely argue for their beliefs and you can't accept that
NathanUp@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 19d
I mean, the thing you can say for pro-communist arguers vs anti-communist arguers is that the former group is practically guaranteed to have read at least several books. It'a a total crapshoot with the latter.
Lexam@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 20d
Not enough propaganda if you ask me.
DisasterTransport@startrek.website · 2 pts · 19d
Lemmy is big enough to be a psyop target and has been for a while. This place is rife with feds and bots of every persuasion and they will try to influence you from every angle. As Lemmy grows it will only get worse. It's easy to brush off pushback for criticizing nation states but also be aware that the FBI in particular has a history of trying to push people towards violent radicalism and in person meetups. Do not trust anyone online. Especially if they agree with you politically.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 19d
Do you actually have a shred of evidence for this? Or do you just assume it based on faith so that you can dismiss people who disagree with you out of hand?
DisasterTransport@startrek.website · 1 pts · 19d
I don't do deep packet inspection on Lemmy traffic, nor am I a behavioral analyst. I simply think it stands to reason that if there are organizations who are capable of running influence campaigns that Lemmy would be a natural target. Any online forum is potentially at risk of targeted disinformation campaigns. I don't apply this logic on an individual basis, because witch hunts are just as counterproductive as being overly credulous. But I have a pretty simple razor that if someone is trying to incite me to violence, meet offline, or divulge personally identifying information I should block them whether or not they're some kind of operative.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 19d
So no, you have no evidence, you just take it on faith - sorry, assert that it "stands to reason" so that you can dismiss anyone who disagrees with you out of hand.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 19d
Lemmy isn't the US and there's plenty of us here who aren't American. FBI can do whatever the hell they want they have zero jurisdiction.
DisasterTransport@startrek.website · 11 pts · 19d
Mastodon isn't American either and they still seized a Koliktiva server. Jurisdiction nothing. They can't arrest you, that doesn't mean they don't have an interest in influencing you. And they're one group of many who has an interest in running influence operations. Fuck dude, it could be Russia, it could be Mossad, it could be GISS. The barrier to entry is so low these days.
blargh513@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 19d
This is exactly right. An asshole doesn't follow the rules, that's why they are assholes.
NathanUp@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 19d
Depends on the treaties in place with your government. Kim Dotcom isn't American either.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · -6 pts · 19d
Not sure if this is MAGA or lefitst conspiracy talk. Y'all sound about the same these days.
DisasterTransport@startrek.website · 9 pts · 19d
The difference between me and a conspiracy theorist is that I can point at past evidence. COINTELPRO is a historical fact, and part of that program involved infiltrating dissident groups and acting as agents provocateur. The Church committee found that the FBI engaged in "covert action designed to disrupt and discredit the activities of groups and individuals deemed a threat to the social order." The committee also found that the tactics employed by the FBI "would be intolerable in a democratic society even if all of the targets had been involved in violent activity."
I am not saying the FBI is definitely here now. What I am saying is it would be naïve to assume that they would not be willing to run an influence operation on public forums where people skeptical of the US government gather, and it would be foolish to assume that nobody else is carrying out similar operations for their own respective interests, state-level or otherwise.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 19d
Yeah J Edgar Hoover got up to all kinds of crazy shit. But that was a long time ago and was primarily about being against communists and black civil rights activists.
Most conspiracy theories fall apart when you just ask the question "why would they do this?"
So... why would the FBI be pushing the kind of content we see on lemmy? Why would the FBI be promoting socialism and anti-zionism? Why would the FBI be promoting trans rights? Is there some hidden agenda which would explain why the FBI would be promoting linux and other FOSS on lemmy?
I don't really see anything on lemmy that would be in the interests of the FBI to be pushing. They might be monitoring things going on here, but which content are you seeing that looks like it's coming from the FBI?
Foreign countries though? Yeah, they're interested in trying to push anyone "radicalized" to do anything which would destabilize their adversaries. And if you look at the content on lemmy, much of the geopolitical discussion is very unhinged and often is trying to push people towards violence.
DisasterTransport@startrek.website · 5 pts · 19d
I think there's a motive. If I were the FBI I wouldn't be too concerned about actual violent outcomes, so long as they were lone wolf attacks or the product of tiny cells of radicals. It's like a controlled burn in a forest. You get the fire out of the way before it reaches a critical mass. "Voting doesn't work, burn down a government building" is a real hard sell to someone with a stable job, but the people it does sell to might one day be the types of people to organize and lead a meaningful opposition. So you flush them out early and fast. Some people might die, but Director Patel told me to catch leftists, not to prevent violence. As an added bonus, each violent act turns liberals more and more against what they perceive as an inherently violent ideology. "These are terrible times, and maybe if it prevents another bombing mass surveillance is acceptable even if I don't like it," they might think. You don't have to go back too far to see that mindset in action. In the aftermath of 9/11 Americans saw an unprecedented erosion of their civil liberties. Terror is good for an autocratic regime.
That being said, I will grant that there's no evidence of this. But then again there wasn't evidence of COINTELPRO until the FBI field office in Media PA got broken into by a group of concerned citizens. Not that I'm condoning B&E. I also don't think it would be productive to point fingers even if there were evidence the FBI was doing COINTELPRO 2. "So and so is a fed" is actually one of the tactics used in COINTELPRO to sow discord in infiltrated groups. Just, maybe we should keep in mind that we're bound to see some discourse here that is trying to get us to play a useful idiot.
historicaldocuments@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 19d
The question about whether the feds are on lemmy is falsifiable. There just needs to be enough people in congress willing to make that a primary issue to overrule whatever security laws/apparatus are in place and publish the info. There's even recent precedent of one guy doing just that. Waiting until there's complete evidence won't move the ball forward at all. Even having a bad discussion has a random chance of moving the ball forward (subject to time constraints).
Not Suspicious on the Internet:
Suspicious on the Internet:
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 19d
I've seen multiple pro-Iran comments which were the exact same text but from different accounts that even appear in the same thread before. Probably their troll farm screwed up something since things can get hectic there lately.
Yeah, I don't think lemmy has many measures to prevent foreign propaganda. Not a trivial problem to solve, I suppose. So I just let them post their unhinged propaganda replies, any bystander should be able understand that they're kinda nuts.
There may need to be some oversight on mods, but not sure how even that would work given the distributed nature of lemmy. But it's likely propagandists have become mods of some communities. This has resulted in some channels to be propaganda channels with no ability for anyone to post any facts in opposition to the propaganda. Sunlight is the best sanitizer, so maybe there just needs to somewhere moderation decisions can be viewed and discussed. That way we could know which channels are overt propaganda channels and some instances can choose to block them if that's what members of that instance want.
The more concerning problem on lemmy is the stochastic terrorism that occurs here. That is, the rationalizations for committing violent acts locally in the hopes that someone that's mentally unwell will actually do those things. There needs to be efforts to remove those kinds of posts and ban those making them or people may get hurt, jailed, or killed. These kinds of things only hurt whatever political movement you may believe in, and only cause harm.
RumorsOfLove@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 20d
Astroturfing absolutely exists. The difference here is they have to work for it.
newton@feddit.online · 0 pts · 20d
Nah ,no problem ,block user and more on , now most of garbage comment or post are gone ,great adventure now and more at ease
Broadfern@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 20d
Cowbee is pretty notoriously long winded and erm, prolific in their comments, if that’s who you’re talking about.
I think China + Russia might be their special interest which would explain the level of “enthusiasm” they have at mention of either. It may also explain the repetitiveness of what they say. Not that they’re necessarily right, but they don’t seem botlike from my experience.
There are a handful of full rabid tankie trolls over in .ml though, so if you dealt with any of those and haven’t blocked I’d recommend doing so now.
yuki_gassen@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 20d
I am in enemy territory /s
Yes they (we) can be annoying, no lie there.
But are folks aware of who is building Lemmy? Like, who the devs are, their goals, etc.?
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -2 pts · 20d
Yeah, the main dev I learned is a .ml believer. But there's other instances and if they started mass censoring this place would die in a week.
yuki_gassen@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 20d
From what I read thru some of the devs posts and drama on Lemmygrad, hexbear, etc, it's complicated. Like, not super important for 99% of ppl to care about. My takeaway at the end was, yes the devs and the mission for Lemmy (and federation in general) is an inherently anticapitalist, or at least anti-monopoly, venture. Many first adopters were infosec/IT folks, ppl who could help build and give feedback, ofc, and were also ideologically aligned/adjacent. Basically, devs said that for this platform to have a chance at growing and being an alternative to privately controlled platforms, it can't just be a politics debate playground; they wanted, needed, liberals to join and make their own instances, and help it grow. Which is happening and good!
I suppose this is a PSA as to who is building the true (imo) private* free speech digital platforms. It's not liberals.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club · -1 pts · 18d
Yeah, that's typical here. There are some places where, if you don't align to the right tone, you will get a very negative response.
holy_scroller@lemmy.zip · -4 pts · 20d
I've just got banned and called a Zionist from worldnews for stating obvious facts in no way defensive of Israel. I don't particularly agree with Israel, but if you don't ignore obvious facts their are definitely recommend communities you are not welcome in.
Edit: the Mod there insists Hamas has never built tunnels under civilian occupied areas. You be the judge.
mrdown@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 20d
Don't use israeli propaganda if you don't want to be labeled a zionist
holy_scroller@lemmy.zip · -5 pts · 19d
When you have to accept obvious falsehoods because you are scared of the Internet people, you might want to check your personal character.
They also always use the phrase "Israeli propaganda" like a boogie man. It's like, yeah the best propaganda mixes truth with lies. I'm not going to bow to the Internet trolls who judge what is true based upon who it helps in that moment.
mrdown@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 19d
Israel keep talking about how it had no choice but killing civilians because Hamas has tunnels below civilians infrastructures. It doesn't matter if the tunnels exists or not because Israel as the settler colonial power has no right to drop a single bomb and enter a single meter of Gaza and the west bank that they colonize and occupy. Pro Vietnam war also said the same bullshit about how Vietcong was hiding in tunnels beneath civilians so they have to kill civilians.
The day occupation end , the tunnel will be abandoned or destroyed
holy_scroller@lemmy.zip · -4 pts · 19d
This is a perfect example of the emerging MAGA left; when someone tells you to not trust your lying eyes because of might go against "the narrative". Trump did that for year with his base, and this is the exact same thing. Your words: "It doesn't matter if the tunnels exists or not" i.e. truth no longer matters, just shut up when we tell you obvious lies. You might hate the war hate the occupation, hate the settlers, but that is not enough, you have to accept every lie we tell you.
No I don't, if you want to ban me and create an echo chamber, go ahead.
mrdown@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 19d
I said the tunnels exists but it is the truth that it doesn't matter if they exists or not. Israel has no legal right to do anything in Gaza and the west bank because they are the settler colonial power. The other truth is that your dumb argument is what Israel is using to commit genocide .
It is not an echo chamber to delete propaganda. The Ukraine subreddit is doing the same thing because, like the Palestinians, they are the side being attacked. I don't see anyone complaining about that; it's considered fine. But when pro-Palestinian subreddits remove propaganda, many hypocrites start crying, calling it censorship, and accusing them of trying to build echo chambers
The comparison with trump cultists is dumb as hell.
holy_scroller@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 19d
The thing is, I don't disagree with anything you said about Israel, but I absolutely disagree that we all have to sensor our speech from obvious facts because it might coincide with a countries propaganda. That is just nutso MAGA all over it and exactly what you are telling me to do. If you can't see the similarities, I can't help you. "but I am lying for a good reason" is not compelling.
mrdown@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 19d
What the point of mentioning the tunnels? Does it strip hamas right to resist settler colonialism and genocide according to you?
EntheoNaut@lemmy.ml · -8 pts · 20d
Pro Ukraine or liberal, anti Russia or China are all extremely unpopular..there’s definitely an uptick in trolls, tankies and outright propagandists regarding any of this.
At the same time the same folks are totally in support of rightfully criticizing the US and Israel’s war crimes, genocide and imperialism.
Yes I’ve noticed
Crackhappy@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 20d
Welcome to the internet. Tbh you need to grow a thicker skin.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 20d
Great contribution 👎
Crackhappy@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 20d
While I thoroughly wish the internet were like it was when I first encountered it, before the world wide web was invented, the truth is that it is not so.
Instead you must find a way to deal with those who wish you harm, for no discernible reason, those who just want to disrupt you, also for no discernible reason.
The best way I've found to deal with it is to ignore it. Focus on those who have specific actionable contributions. Who have something to say that is worth hearing.
nosuchanon@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 20d
Yeah. In the beginning it was mostly educated people and geeks. Now it’s every moron who hides behind anonymity and a screen name.
Crackhappy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 20d
And specifically, those who have specific criticisms for you that aren't ad hominem attacks or vague criticisms.