I agree. I heard recently a lot of kids under 20 grew up in an iPhone, iPad, and chrome world and never learned “folder” or directory concepts so it’s a tough transition in the work world. Paper organizers are not nearly as ubiquitous as they once were.
i think in that case your should first click on a "folder with arrow going out" (move out) icon before given this one to move into another directory. so the context is clear.
Makes sense. Then you can add some kind of index to the file so you can jump to the parts you want. Just track a list of chunks, so they don't have to be contiguous.
Yeah, and we could give that huge file some kind of internal and logical structure to find those chunks, maybe something hierarchical with human readable names!
Yea replace the 90s tech icon for the filing cabinet paper folder , from who knows when. It's actually a good suggestions this technology still hasn't disappeared. But it will soon, as foretold by the paperless office prophecies. So I think a half buried treasure chest icon would be better as a forever lasting icon.
Is there an icon that expresses the default cloud save location as well as the circuitous GUI you need to navigate yo select your desired location on local storage?
I reject the question. That's not a picture of a floppy disc, that is the glyph that means save
You literally called it the save symbol. And that's what it is...100 years from now, if we're still around and still have computers, the save icon will still be some stylized glyph based on the floppy disc
The existence of the floppy disc is already just a bit of trivia about the save icon
It's like asking what we should change the Bluetooth symbol to? Why do you yearn for the world to burn?
An icon can be any random glyph, but it has to stay recognizable and consistent in meaning, that's the entire concept here
In the dystopia of outer-worlds-esque orwellien-surveillance corporate feudalism it looks like they will have to endure, I think we can afford to lighten up on them 😂
every letter in the alphabet started as a symbol of something 2500-6000 years ago, "A" for instance is an upside-down Ox head. people in future generations will continue using the floppy symbol, cuz they learned that means saving, despite floppies not being relevant to their lives
I think we should just keep the floppy disk symbol at this point, because it doesn't matter what it was originally based on or whether that exists any more--everyone knows what that symbol means, and it can't really be confused with anything else.
There's no point making an icon that looks like any other particular kind of storage device since those are changing all the time. So we either have to pick some real world thing like a safe or warehouse or grain silo or whatever. or invent some completely new symbol that's not related to anything and then everyone would have to learn it. Which takes us back to just keeping the floppy disk symbol.
Honestly probably the most universally recognizable save symbol in the end, certainly if I had to go back in time and establish contact with an ancient people and teach them Intuit Quickbooks or other tax accounting software to run a cutthroat tax accounting operation using timetravel to access low cost labor that would be the icon I would choose for saving.
I agree. I made this jokingly, but a number of people seem to actually like it. I also started thinking on how to improve it immediately after I made it lol.
I said none of that. I don't know why you'd assume any of the above from an obviously simplified laymans' explanation of the concept of a download. I'm well aware of this, but my target audience may not be. Write for your audience, not for you.
But why are you focusing on the download aspect? The subject at hand is an icon for saving, and saving can happen as in those several scenarios, if not more.
So, do you think a download icon like that fits them all? Especially those that don't involve your local disk at all?
Let's stick to the subject, above injecting tangential technical correction asides. 👍
If the floppy disk was no longer the save symbol for software, and I had to chose one, I'd chose the floppy disk symbol.
But you worded your question wisely to avoid that loophole, so I'm not sure what to use instead for an otherwise unique and ubiquitous symbol, already known as "the save file icon" for two generations that have not seen it.
While we're at it, let's also replace the phone icons with a rectangle, as to not confuse anyone.
Ouuh this is a fun one. I find that floppy disks look somewhat similar to SD-cards. Do you think the majority of kids (18 and younger) would recognize SD cards?
Down arrow pointing to a line, box, folder, or similar. Icons like that are what I've seen most commonly in software that has an icon for saving over the last few years.
In a lot of cases, the distinction doesn't really matter. If it does in a particular application, I'd probably prefer words to make the nuance clear -- but an arrow to cloud + arrow to disk/folder may be appropriate for some of the cases if an icon is required too.
In GIMP 2.10 on my system, there's a small difference between Save and Save As's icons. I think they added a pen over the hard disk the arrow is pointing towards -- presumably to indicate re-labeling? The difference is just barely visually distinguishable on my screen though. There's also an Export option (which has no icon, despite it being something I use a fair bit more than many of the other File menu commands) and a "Send by Email..." option with pencil over some paper with lines on it (presumably lines of text that's too small to be distinct).
xed on my system has an arrow pointing at a line for Save and an arrow with a line plus 3 dots over it for Save As. Only the Save icon is on the toolbar; the other is in the File menu. I've actually never noticed that distinction before, and if I weren't actively looking for save icons in the software I have installed right now, I don't know if I'd have ever noticed...
LibreOffice still has a (very stylized) floppy disk on the toolbar for Save and no icons whatsoever in the file menu on my system.
KolourPaint uses an arrow pointing into the drawer of a filing cabinet in the toolbar, and a much more squashed version of that in the File menu -- along with something additional (a partially filed in text box to indicate relabeling?) above the Save As variant in the File Menu.
Not sure if I have any other software that I still use regularly which has a Save icon... (My browser just uses text without any icons for save from File menu or via right click menu.)
There’s a good reason that these two icons are currently different.
Not really, it's just legacy, the same reason the save icon is still a floppy disk in most programs. That's what it's always been.
You may make the distinction between saving a document and downloading a document, but most people don't pay anywhere near that amount of attention, and don't care about specifics.
Downloading data and saving data are two separate and distinct functions that describe a different process. While they may have a similar result, they are not the same thing.
You may not understand that, even after I’ve explained it a second time, but they’re not the same thing. They work differently, occurring different contexts, and a single icon should not be used to communicate two distinct concepts. That’s why there are two separate icons.
Whether the save icon is that of a floppy disk or not, doesn’t change that.
And your argument basically amounts to that people are too stupid to care.
But you raise a good point: why would it need to be changed? It’s everywhere, everyone already knows it, it works. Why change it? After all, you seem to think that people are too stupid to care.
You may make the distinction between saving a document and downloading a document, but most people don’t pay anywhere near that amount of attention, and don’t care about specifics.
Covering "Most people" but not all cases is where most software goes awry. We should probably try to avoid that for something as universal as saving a file.
One could make the same argument about creating a more complicated solution when a simple one solves it for 99% of users. Especially when the remaining 1% will know the difference based on what they're doing, regardless of the icon used.
(See, I can simplify stuff too. Now there's a chance that a certain amount of people are wondering if I'm having a stroke instead of linking it to a well-known English saying.
That's why you're not actually "simplifying" anything.)
When you’re working on a document in the cloud you have the option to save it (in the cloud) or download it (to your device). Those are two actions that can exist at the same time.
I wonder if we would would really "expect" a new safe icon. Most modern software has auto-saving. Games for example often just use a spinning circle to indicate it's saving. Word and google docs just say "don't worry, we're continuously saving your work" when you hit Ctrl + S.
I imagine if you want to save something locally you have the downward arrow for downloading, or some other icon for moving and copying files.
depends - the capactiy changed over the years. My floppies were 90k, while 8 inch at the time was a full megabyte. 5.25 floppies did reach 1.2 megabytes on other systems but they were never available to me - even if I could afford it the drives were never compatible with my atari while the 8 inch drives were (with adapters I only ever saw in magazines)
Idk, I guess SSDs/flash media is pretty prevalent nowadays, especially in gaming context. That said, it doesn't leave much in the way of a universally identifiable icon, or animation. So maybe an exposed hard disk, with the disk spinning and the arm moving, if you can picture what I'm describing.
I'd like to think it won't even be necessary with a save icon as autosave becomes more prevalent. If I'm wrong, one option the icon could be is something like a "snapshot"
Probably an arrow pointing down inside of a circle, like the download icon. Most of the software I use just has text saying "Save file" and no icon, and I usually press control + S anyways so I don't have much of an opinion regarding this
An arrow pointing up at a line. Preferably with each being a different colour.
The arrow indicates movement. The line is abstract. But with the colour coding it carries the idea of 'putting the thing into the other thing'.
The rest is learned pattern recognition. A download is a down arrow in a circle because you are taking the thing from the other thing. So saving is an arrow to a line because you are putting the thing in the other thing.
LibreOffice on Ubuntu has a down-arrow "save" icon, and every time I look at it I think "that's a download icon". Up arrow versions of that are upload icons. Neither really conveys "save".
Nothing. Why do I need to manage storage myself? Everything i do should just be automatically saved. Each doc should essentially be version control so you can intelligently step back and fork if you need to.
There should be no save button. All software should auto-save continuously while you work. There should be a "duplicate"-type menu item or button that allow you to make a copy of the document into a new file.
Almost all cloud software already works like this.
"Saving" is a legacy that was introduced because of limitations related to storage in the early days of computing and makes no inherent sense within the metaphors most software operate. Broken metaphors makes things difficult to learn.
When was the last time you scribbled onto a physical document and the changes "didn't save"? Do you also hate "autosave" in the physical world?
Comparing to the physical world makes no sense because a computer is an enhancement that does things differently.
I want way to make trial and error scenarios and test ideas and scribble notes without being forced to keep the changes or retain a document. I also prefer to know where it is going.
I have some software that crashes and leaves me in this weird state where: auto save, recovery file, test sceberio. Which one was I using? Which will it choose to restore and how fucked am I now that the original is lost if I choose wrong?
Edit: I am going to say that on the other hand, in business it is wild that we give people a desktop computer when we should be giving them programs that they use. They should have metadata attached, be relative to their work, and have auto save. I am not always against auto save, it just needs to be in the appropriate places.
Comparing with the physical world makes sense when we have built these applications on physical world metaphors: "documents", "folders", "desktop", etc. We use those words precisely because they convey meaning based on the similarities with their real-world counterparts. Broken metaphors are both more difficult to learn and tend to trigger incorrect assumptions leading to operator error ("Didn't you save your document? What does that mean?").
What is worse is that, like it or not, the world is increasingly moving towards cloud services. The "edit + save" paradigm is less suited to that environment, so there we almost exclusively see the "you edit the doc itself (no need to save)" paradigm. It is difficult to see the gain of insisting on keeping both these quite different paradigms around, when the "you edit the doc directly" is no problem to implement also offline.
Now, about the practicalities: I also get fundamentally annoyed when presented with the "document recovery" dialog that brings me out of my flow. However, I interprete the situation differently. Had the software used a "you edit the doc, no need to save" paradigm, there would never be a need for "recovery". The edits I did are stored in the file I edited.
As for "I just want to scribble". Why don't you just scribble in a file called "Scribbles"? Why is that concept so offensive? You'll be happy the day your computer loses power while you are in the midst of scribbling, since you will be able to pick up exactly where you were.
Didn’t you save your document? What does that mean?
It means I want to keep it. I don't think that is a broken metaphor at all.
As for “I just want to scribble”. Why don’t you just scribble in a file called “Scribbles”?
Wait a minute: in the real world I do not need to name anything to make scribbles. I also do not have a paradigm where there is a fork between versions and create a new document that goes off in one direction while the other document goes in another. At the end of the other documents time, why can't I just get rid of it if my what if scenario didn't work out? Oh I have to now find the thing and take even more time to figure out how to get rid of it. I also have to choose where to keep something if it is going to auto save, and I work on multiple computers all around the world so it makes no sense for me to expect it to "save somewhere".
Also, when I am working on what if scenarios, they are not scribbles. They are taking a document that sometimes can take several minutes to load, and might take many minutes to process. They might be excel sheets, they might by python pandas projects, they might be painting projects or 3d renders.
I have no need for cloud services either, that sucks as well. I have my own server, my own world wide storage locations. I would like to decide when I where I put stuff.
Didn’t you save your document? What does that mean?
It means I want to keep it. I don't think that is a broken metaphor at all.
It will not come natural to people who are used to work with physical documents that you need to remember to "save" an edit, or the document reverts back to the state it was when you opened it.
in the real world I do not need to name anything to make scribbles.
No, but you need to have a physical document to scribble on, which, after you have scribbled will remain in the state you left it until you take the active decision to throw it away.
I also do not have a paradigm where there is a fork between versions and create a new document that goes off in one direction while the other document goes in another.
Have you never used a copy machine?
At the end of the other documents time, why can't I just get rid of it if my what if scenario didn't work out?
Just throw it in the recycle bin? Another real-life metaphor. Do you often find objects in your physical world disappearing without no action from you?
I also have to choose where to keep something if it is going to auto save
Following the typical cloud implementation, you do not. Just start editing. It will be placed in a default folder under a default name until you rename it / and or move it somewhere else. (These operations are usually provided in more convenient ways than in "save paradigm" software, e.g., the name is shown as a title, just click to change it)
They are taking a document that sometimes can take several minutes to load, and might take many minutes to process. They might be excel sheets, they might by python pandas projects, they might be painting projects or 3d renders.
All of these -- except the Python Pandas project (see below) -- could still (and probably should) work according to a "you edit the doc itself, no need to save" paradigm. The larger the underlying file, the less sense does it make to forcibly have to work on a copy; either in RAM (if it fits) or if it doesn't fit, the software has to create an on-disk copy of your huge file behind your back, in case you decide to not save. Leading to all these messy "recovery semantics" that no one likes.
Now, the context of this whole thread is IMO GUI software. When it comes to programming/programmatic tools, e.g. Python Pandas, R, Matlab, etc., that is a different thing. There you have a choice to work in RAM or on disk depending on your needs.
It will be placed in a default folder under a default name until you rename it / and or move it somewhere else.
What a nightmare.
Why don't we just let things default to not auto save but you can turn it on at anytime.
I personally hate it. Absolutely hate it.
I want to put things where I want them the first time when I am ready. I don't use cloud services, I have my own network and cloud file shares. I don't want some program choosing when and where to save something for me, because it is extra work finding all these garbage files I didn't ask for.
"Saving" a file should already be obsolete.
Filesystems should automatically retain history, so whenever you edit something it's already saved, with the ability to go back to any previous state.
No, please. I NEVER want a computer to take a decision for me (like save or discard changes). I turned off auto saving on Microsoft Office on my work computer after I unknowingly made some changes in a presentation from another team I was just looking at, and it saved those changes without my knowledge nor consent.
I work with several screens, have several windows of different programs open and, unfortunately, sometimes a keystroke doesn't go where I thought I was sending it (I'm probably getting old). Also sometimes windows from a different program come to focus unannounced and capture whatever you were typing or clicking.
re: keystroke focus - you're not just getting old, programs are getting shittier about pulling focus when they shouldn't
I work on several screens on several tasks at once typically as well, and it's infuriating when one program pulls focus as I'm typing a sentence into something else, and worse when it does so and accepts the input of my rapid keystrokes to do whatever the fuck all those hotkeys are on the thing that pulled focus
Oh hell no... You want the computer to decide where your files live??? Autosaving and saving are different things, you do need both
And version control on a filesystem is neat, but you'd still have to save it to a place. Perhaps you save it to a version controlled place, so you're not version controlling things that don't need to be tracked and filling up your entire disc when steam games update
It's your responsibility as the human to make decisions like this. It can be made easier with tools and clean workflows, but if you let the computer do it automatically you're giving up control and understanding
I mean... You can autosave everything temporarily under a temp filename. The program should treat it as unnamed, and then when you go to save it you then give it a location and a name
It's probably the best workflow, it's pretty common for code editors
287 Comments
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 175 pts · 245d
An arrow pointing into a folder, similar to this. Sidesteps the tech issue altogether.
jacksilver@lemmy.world · 93 pts · 245d
I mean, you're just replacing one archaic symbol with another.
otp@sh.itjust.works · 38 pts · 245d
I still use folders to organize paper documents. Taxes and medical stuff mostly.
TheBat@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 245d
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 11 pts · 245d
Which predate computers and floppy disks
happydoors@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 245d
I agree. I heard recently a lot of kids under 20 grew up in an iPhone, iPad, and chrome world and never learned “folder” or directory concepts so it’s a tough transition in the work world. Paper organizers are not nearly as ubiquitous as they once were.
olafurp@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
It connects it to another computer symbol, the folder which is seen plenty of times as the thing containing files. It's a solid solution.
GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 245d
Isn't that used as an icon for moving a file from one folder to another?
http404@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 244d
i think in that case your should first click on a "folder with arrow going out" (move out) icon before given this one to move into another directory. so the context is clear.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Yeah, if an open folder icon means ‘open a file’, then this inversion means saving the file.
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub · 7 pts · 245d
That's a good one for local storage.
Some software uses that arrow with a cloud to say it's saved into the cloud.
blarth@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 245d
We should do away with directories. Just one big block of files.
bluesheep@sh.itjust.works · 34 pts · 245d
Screw multiple files, just use one big one. Just append anything you want to add and you'll have everything in 1 spot
rbos@lemmy.ca · 24 pts · 245d
Makes sense. Then you can add some kind of index to the file so you can jump to the parts you want. Just track a list of chunks, so they don't have to be contiguous.
DasFaultier@sh.itjust.works · 26 pts · 245d
Yeah, and we could give that huge file some kind of internal and logical structure to find those chunks, maybe something hierarchical with human readable names!
rbos@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 245d
Yeah! Now we're cooking! I bet we could really improve resiliency and seek times with different data structures, too. B trees?
rbos@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 245d
Or maybe we could keep the flat structure and have some kind of syntax for querying the data... some kind of structured language.
Corporal_Punishment@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 245d
You've basically invented OneNote
DasFaultier@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 245d
Crap, I was hoping to invent file systems.
justaman123@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
Easy to find saves time
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
PalmOS actually did that. Programs had records saved in a central database, not files.
uncouple9831@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 245d
untorquer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
Yes look everything up by
keyworddescribing its contents to AI agent.Kaput@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 245d
Yea replace the 90s tech icon for the filing cabinet paper folder , from who knows when. It's actually a good suggestions this technology still hasn't disappeared. But it will soon, as foretold by the paperless office prophecies. So I think a half buried treasure chest icon would be better as a forever lasting icon.
untorquer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
Is there an icon that expresses the default cloud save location as well as the circuitous GUI you need to navigate yo select your desired location on local storage?
theneverfox@pawb.social · 118 pts · 245d
I reject the question. That's not a picture of a floppy disc, that is the glyph that means save
You literally called it the save symbol. And that's what it is...100 years from now, if we're still around and still have computers, the save icon will still be some stylized glyph based on the floppy disc
The existence of the floppy disc is already just a bit of trivia about the save icon
It's like asking what we should change the Bluetooth symbol to? Why do you yearn for the world to burn?
An icon can be any random glyph, but it has to stay recognizable and consistent in meaning, that's the entire concept here
Dasus@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 244d
By OP's logic, this
#A
is a drawing of an ox head.
upandatom@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 245d
Hope you are right.
But really the Save icon will become: ✨
TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz · 7 pts · 245d
thats's the Google AI icon
EarthshipTechIntern01@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 244d
"All your base (data) are belong to us" -Google AI
antrosapien@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 243d
Why you want to save file if you can just feed if you ai and let it hallucinate if you want to read it
theneverfox@pawb.social · 3 pts · 244d
... Why is the generative llm glyph here? nervous
shalafi@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 244d
What till people find out what "dashboard" originally meant.
youngalfred@lemmy.zip · 107 pts · 245d
You can't just jump to the future, so use this one for the next decade:
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 245d
... but platter drives are old hat, SSDs are the new hotness?
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 245d
Can't skip a generation, gotta go from the floppy disk icon to the HDD icon for a while first.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Forgot about Zip drives.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Meh, just a hard floppy. Although I really did appreciate my Zip 100 drive for that storage space before writable CDs came along.
TootSweet@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 245d
That's the joke.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 245d
But hard drives came first.
Psythik@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 245d
Well it's not a very good one.
titter@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Isnt this just a hdd platter?
titter@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Oh wait im dumb its a 75 record
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 245d
Hard drives pre-dated floppy discs by 15 years.
KokusnussRitter@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 245d
I bow to thy argumentation. This be-eth the way
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 79 pts · 244d
SD card. Half us old timers won’t even realize it’s not a floppy disk.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl · 11 pts · 244d
Yet 90% of young people won't know what it is because digital cameras have been replaced by phones and phones no longer have microSD lol
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 244d
Gotta give the next gen something to complain about.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 243d
In the dystopia of outer-worlds-esque orwellien-surveillance corporate feudalism it looks like they will have to endure, I think we can afford to lighten up on them 😂
WhiteOakBayou@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 243d
Digital cameras are in style again. I've seen screenless ones for sale at several places these past few weeks.
bss03@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 243d
I would also accept any other recognizable, removable media. Even a generic USB stick would be more relevant than a floppy disk.
expatriado@lemmy.world · 61 pts · 245d
every letter in the alphabet started as a symbol of something 2500-6000 years ago, "A" for instance is an upside-down Ox head. people in future generations will continue using the floppy symbol, cuz they learned that means saving, despite floppies not being relevant to their lives
Nemo@slrpnk.net · 55 pts · 245d
A crucifix...
...because Jesus saves.
qfe0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 245d
And takes half damage
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 2 pts · 245d
When jesus saaaay "yes", nobody can't say "you don't have the permissions to write on this volume" 🎶
l_isqof@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
And saves you from swearing...
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 1 pts · 245d
Early, and often.
leadore@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 244d
I think we should just keep the floppy disk symbol at this point, because it doesn't matter what it was originally based on or whether that exists any more--everyone knows what that symbol means, and it can't really be confused with anything else.
There's no point making an icon that looks like any other particular kind of storage device since those are changing all the time. So we either have to pick some real world thing like a safe or warehouse or grain silo or whatever. or invent some completely new symbol that's not related to anything and then everyone would have to learn it. Which takes us back to just keeping the floppy disk symbol.
AlligatorBlizzard@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 244d
This is a hilariously awkward suggestion. At the scale of the average save icon, what do you think a grain silo symbol would look like?
http404@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 244d
like this?
drawing a grain silo doesn't mean you have to draw the grains.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 243d
Honestly probably the most universally recognizable save symbol in the end, certainly if I had to go back in time and establish contact with an ancient people and teach them Intuit Quickbooks or other tax accounting software to run a cutthroat tax accounting operation using timetravel to access low cost labor that would be the icon I would choose for saving.
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works · 44 pts · 245d
otp@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 245d
This makes me think "new file"
Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 245d
Timeless. Ubiquitous. Mandatory for all of K-12 and often beyond. Perfect.
Lemminary@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 245d
This gives Calibre FOSS vibes.
DomeGuy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
A scroll and quill is a pretty good idea, but it'd be better as something more squarish than irregular, I think.
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 245d
I agree. I made this jokingly, but a number of people seem to actually like it. I also started thinking on how to improve it immediately after I made it lol.
TootSweet@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 245d
Nobody else immediately thought of this?
if_only@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 245d
Incremental save needs to be Buddha
xxce2AAb@feddit.dk · 37 pts · 245d
Something completely abstract, like this
mriormro@lemmy.zip · 59 pts · 245d
That's a download button
RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
To download is still to save to one's disk.
BlackVenom@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 245d
Not if you're saving to the cloud...
RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 245d
That's called an upload, literally the opposite
BlackVenom@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 231d
A download is an upload viewed from the other end.
If you're not on either end - saving cloud to cloud... It makes less sense.
Saving can be either upload or download... Saving is saving.
By your argument, saving to a nas is uploading too just because the storage isn't local.
PineRune@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 245d
Then it points up.
frizzo@piefed.social · 6 pts · 245d
You upload to save to the cloud
BlackVenom@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 231d
From where to where and how is that uploading from your perspective? What if you save from cloud to a local nas or a remote nas.
Saving is saving. Download and upload are relative.
victorz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
You have multiple scenarios. Save...
You think these all apply to the concept of "download"?
RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 245d
I said none of that. I don't know why you'd assume any of the above from an obviously simplified laymans' explanation of the concept of a download. I'm well aware of this, but my target audience may not be. Write for your audience, not for you.
victorz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
But why are you focusing on the download aspect? The subject at hand is an icon for saving, and saving can happen as in those several scenarios, if not more.
So, do you think a download icon like that fits them all? Especially those that don't involve your local disk at all?
Let's stick to the subject, above injecting tangential technical correction asides. 👍
RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 243d
*Because *I replied to a comment that says "that's a download button".
I made no other comment, and what I said is correct.
I'm blocking you to stop you from wasting any more of my time because you can't read.
victorz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 243d
lol, but when they said "that's a download button", they meant that it doesn't make sense as a save button, for those reasons I mentioned.
You can't read.
mriormro@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 245d
Downloading is specifically not saving in this metaphor. That's essentially making a record copy, not overwriting the source.
toothpaste_sandwich@thebrainbin.org · 6 pts · 245d
I've seen something like that used, and I think it fits the bill just fine!
PHLAK@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 245d
Agreed, but make the bottom bit look like a drive or server (e.g. a rectangle with a dot or two).
Triumph@fedia.io · 2 pts · 245d
Chrome uses that for "download".
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
Which is essentially what saving is.
Triumph@fedia.io · 5 pts · 245d
Mmm ... not exactly. If I'm creating a document in a local application, "download" is not applicable there, where "save" is.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 245d
For 99% of users, the specifics make no difference at all.
It's closer to reality than a floppy disk icon, that's for sure.
Nibodhika@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
They meant that downloading is a type of saving.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 37 pts · 245d
A squirrel, as in to squirrel it away
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 31 pts · 245d
Best answer, but the save button should save the file somewhere random each time on the storage if the icon is a squirrel.
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 245d
So, like my work computer then
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 245d
Doesn’t everybody save stuff somewhere in the mess that is their desktop?
Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 245d
Kind of just sounds like OneDrive.
They'll get it for you if you want it, but you don't get to know where it's actually stored (or who else is accessing it).
squirrel@piefed.kobel.fyi · 3 pts · 245d
Best answer! Btw, have you seen my file?
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 245d
Where's your file dude?
KokusnussRitter@discuss.tchncs.de · 8 pts · 245d
Sorry for not submitting my homework on time. The squirrel took it away, never to be seen again.
zxqwas@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 245d
A CD image. Got to move with the times.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 245d
Isnt it the glorious zip disks turn first?
sanguinepar@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 245d
ChocolateFrostedSugarBombs@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 245d
What a save!
pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 244d
Chat disabled for 3 seconds.
tensor_nightly69@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
Okay.
blackn1ght@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 245d
Wow!
vector42@programming.dev · 1 pts · 245d
smiletolerantly@awful.systems · 31 pts · 245d
Let's be real, when some shitty company (MS) gets around to it, it will be: ☁️⬆️
cley_faye@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 245d
A cassette tape.
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 4 pts · 245d
Hahahaha, dammit you win
neidu3@sh.itjust.works · 26 pts · 245d
A safe or vault symbol as an indicator for safe keeping
emb@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 245d
I've already seen it replaced in some applications. Don't like that.
I know it's "if you have to", but if I have any choice at all, the floppy icon stays.
garbagebagel@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 245d
What even is the point in changing it? Like sure we don't use floppies anymore, but it's a well established symbol for saving.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 245d
What did they replace it with?
mech@feddit.org · 4 pts · 245d
An arrow pointing down.
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 245d
I've seen a hard drive.
QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.works · 22 pts · 245d
A quill
Allero@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 244d
An elegant solution indeed
Katana314@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
We’re going even more old fashioned.
BarbedDentalFloss@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 245d
Han solo frozen in carbonite
okamiueru@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 245d
If the floppy disk was no longer the save symbol for software, and I had to chose one, I'd chose the floppy disk symbol.
But you worded your question wisely to avoid that loophole, so I'm not sure what to use instead for an otherwise unique and ubiquitous symbol, already known as "the save file icon" for two generations that have not seen it.
While we're at it, let's also replace the phone icons with a rectangle, as to not confuse anyone.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
Just change one pixel and call it new.
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
You could make it a zip drive. No one would know the difference...
KokusnussRitter@discuss.tchncs.de · 19 pts · 245d
Ouuh this is a fun one. I find that floppy disks look somewhat similar to SD-cards. Do you think the majority of kids (18 and younger) would recognize SD cards?
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 245d
I do not!
JDPoZ@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 244d
Dasus@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 244d
Thats for downloading though.
JDPoZ@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 244d
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 13 pts · 244d
I'm not downloading when I save a file I edited locally on my computer.
baronvonj@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 244d
But like, what if, you're like ... "downloading" the file .. from memory .. to disk? .. man?
JDPoZ@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 243d
Dasus@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 244d
You take an online thing and make it local.
I understand how some younger folk might not see as stark a contrast in saving v downloading.
I'd say if you're 30+, you prolly do.
Aaahhaha. I didn't even read that bit before writing my first lines, and that only confirms my doubts.
Never seen these, eh?
WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org · 7 pts · 244d
What are we doing to the file? ****Ing it?
howrar@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 244d
Need to disambiguate between saving locally and saving directly to cloud storage.
AlligatorBlizzard@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 244d
If Windows gets their way you don't!
JDPoZ@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 243d
elbarto777@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 7 pts · 244d
They aren't censoring swearwords. 5they are blanking it out to make a point about the word save.
elbarto777@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
JDPoZ@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 243d
JDPoZ@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 243d
snowsuit2654@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 244d
To me this means download
e0qdk@reddthat.com · 17 pts · 245d
Down arrow pointing to a line, box, folder, or similar. Icons like that are what I've seen most commonly in software that has an icon for saving over the last few years.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 245d
how do you seperate that from downloading? I had a similar idea.
e0qdk@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 245d
In a lot of cases, the distinction doesn't really matter. If it does in a particular application, I'd probably prefer words to make the nuance clear -- but an arrow to cloud + arrow to disk/folder may be appropriate for some of the cases if an icon is required too.
In GIMP 2.10 on my system, there's a small difference between Save and Save As's icons. I think they added a pen over the hard disk the arrow is pointing towards -- presumably to indicate re-labeling? The difference is just barely visually distinguishable on my screen though. There's also an Export option (which has no icon, despite it being something I use a fair bit more than many of the other File menu commands) and a "Send by Email..." option with pencil over some paper with lines on it (presumably lines of text that's too small to be distinct).
xed on my system has an arrow pointing at a line for Save and an arrow with a line plus 3 dots over it for Save As. Only the Save icon is on the toolbar; the other is in the File menu. I've actually never noticed that distinction before, and if I weren't actively looking for save icons in the software I have installed right now, I don't know if I'd have ever noticed...
LibreOffice still has a (very stylized) floppy disk on the toolbar for Save and no icons whatsoever in the file menu on my system.
KolourPaint uses an arrow pointing into the drawer of a filing cabinet in the toolbar, and a much more squashed version of that in the File menu -- along with something additional (a partially filed in text box to indicate relabeling?) above the Save As variant in the File Menu.
Not sure if I have any other software that I still use regularly which has a Save icon... (My browser just uses text without any icons for save from File menu or via right click menu.)
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 245d
Why does it need to be separate? The end result is the same, the file on your device. Where it is coming from makes no difference.
99% of users won't care at all.
It's infinitely more accurate than a floppy disk icon.
bklyn@piefed.social · 6 pts · 245d
They need to be separate because saving and downloading are two separate things.
When I’m in Photoshop, I don’t download the file I’m working on. I save it.
There’s a good reason that these two icons are currently different.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 245d
Not really, it's just legacy, the same reason the save icon is still a floppy disk in most programs. That's what it's always been.
You may make the distinction between saving a document and downloading a document, but most people don't pay anywhere near that amount of attention, and don't care about specifics.
bklyn@piefed.social · 6 pts · 245d
No, that’s not it at all
Downloading data and saving data are two separate and distinct functions that describe a different process. While they may have a similar result, they are not the same thing.
You may not understand that, even after I’ve explained it a second time, but they’re not the same thing. They work differently, occurring different contexts, and a single icon should not be used to communicate two distinct concepts. That’s why there are two separate icons.
Whether the save icon is that of a floppy disk or not, doesn’t change that.
And your argument basically amounts to that people are too stupid to care.
But you raise a good point: why would it need to be changed? It’s everywhere, everyone already knows it, it works. Why change it? After all, you seem to think that people are too stupid to care.
Then why do you care?
sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 245d
Covering "Most people" but not all cases is where most software goes awry. We should probably try to avoid that for something as universal as saving a file.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 245d
One could make the same argument about creating a more complicated solution when a simple one solves it for 99% of users. Especially when the remaining 1% will know the difference based on what they're doing, regardless of the icon used.
bklyn@piefed.social · 4 pts · 245d
You could make that argument, but you’d be wrong.
I really shouldn’t have to keep explaining why.
sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 245d
Something something assumptions, asses, etc.
(See, I can simplify stuff too. Now there's a chance that a certain amount of people are wondering if I'm having a stroke instead of linking it to a well-known English saying.
That's why you're not actually "simplifying" anything.)
ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 245d
When you’re working on a document in the cloud you have the option to save it (in the cloud) or download it (to your device). Those are two actions that can exist at the same time.
mech@feddit.org · 1 pts · 245d
Arrow pointing to cloud
Arrow pointing down to a stylized container
sidebro@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 245d
I like this one, it makes sense. And if you're saving something to the cloud it could be pointing up instead, maybe towards a cloud.
WraithGear@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 244d
the final fantasy 7 save crystal. because just look at it. LOOK AT IT!
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 244d
It's so goofy looking lol
HelloHotel@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 245d
Probably an arrow pointing to a hard drive.
invertedspear@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 245d
Why a hard drive? Storage is moving to solid state. That icon would also be obsolete in a few years.
Soggy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
Because solid state drives can look like anything but a hard drive has the distinct arm and platter.
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 244d
A Jesus icon.
Jesus saves.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 243d
What about Valhala tho? Kinda seems like superior religious imagery to me.
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 243d
i want software to be easy to use. I don't want to die in battle using my software
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 243d
Admit it, we all die in some small way every time we use a computer, why not seek glory in it?
dawcas@scribe.disroot.org · 12 pts · 244d
I've seen HDD icons as a replacement for the floppy.
1rre@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 244d
HDD or a folder is open, floppy is save, surely?
dawcas@scribe.disroot.org · 3 pts · 244d
In calibre, HDD icon is for "save to disk", but I'm sure I've seen icon sets or other apps where HDD was used to save.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 245d
🗄 or 🗃 come to mind.
victorz@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 245d
Yes let's make it even more archaic
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 245d
that would rather be icons for a file manager or an archiver
0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 245d
I choose a labeled, icon-free button that says
savehissingmeerkat@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 245d
A dark souls campfire/site of grace
vk6flab@lemmy.radio · 10 pts · 245d
Given the impermanence of any storage medium today, I'm thinking a puff of smoke would convey the sentiment with the right level of user expectation.
💨
Triumph@fedia.io · 9 pts · 245d
A rotary pay phone powered by a steam engine.
daggermoon@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 245d
But I like the floppy disk save symbol
frustrated_phagocytosis@fedia.io · 9 pts · 245d
Gotta go with an even older symbol, the ring buoy.
olafurp@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 245d
I think the download icons will become synonymous with saving. It's functionally the same, move thingy to a location on your computer.
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 245d
What about saving on a cloud service? Very misleading.
olafurp@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
Up arrow on top of a cloud, I think that one is standard now
JordanZ@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 245d
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 245d
It actually does, just not modern technology. It's a simplified drum memory unit, the predecessor to the hard disk drive.
Dasus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
How is that a predecessor? It's just the same tech but bigger? (I know this could be said for pretty much anything but still.)
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
You'd have your answer if you spent half a minute reading on how the tech worked in the above-linked article.
Dasus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 244d
I think it does look like an idealised stack of spinning magnetic disks. At least that's what I have always read it as.
theneverfox@pawb.social · 8 pts · 245d
That's already the symbol of a data store, so if you hit it I'd expect it to bring up the connection configuration
TeddE@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
What if we coupled the cylinder symbol with a 'going to' arrow ⤵️ above it?
theneverfox@pawb.social · 1 pts · 244d
I would assume that would mean either choosing between database profiles or uploading a database export
hddsx@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 245d
What’s a hard drive? Is that like iCloud or something?
Witchfire@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 245d
It's an ancient device that replicates the cloud on your computer
hddsx@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 244d
But why don’t you just use iCloud?
FalschgeldFurkan@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 245d
Go older: a punch card being inserted into a tray
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 245d
probably a safe.
hddsx@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 245d
You’ll get “but why don’t you just put everything in the cloud?”
Ask me how I know
lonlazarus@lemmy.sdf.org · 8 pts · 245d
Ice cube, because you're freezing it in whatever working state you're in.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 244d
Core memory. It's non-volatile.
evidences@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 245d
5.25"floppy disk
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
The one true floppy
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 3 pts · 245d
9"
hddsx@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 245d
Nine? I swear the floppy was EIGHT inches
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 245d
You are right. I still have a box with programs I wrote
Weirdfish@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
Bonfire from Dark Souls, because you don't want to lose your soul by failing to save progress.
zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com · 2 pts · 245d
Oooh I was going to say the ff7 save point but this is good
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 243d
A cloud. Just to let them know they don’t own anything anymore.
Feyd@programming.dev · 6 pts · 245d
You mean the vending machine?
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 245d
Well, vending machines are for bytes I suppose.
HereIAm@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
I wonder if we would would really "expect" a new safe icon. Most modern software has auto-saving. Games for example often just use a spinning circle to indicate it's saving. Word and google docs just say "don't worry, we're continuously saving your work" when you hit Ctrl + S.
I imagine if you want to save something locally you have the downward arrow for downloading, or some other icon for moving and copying files.
Noodle07@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 245d
I dont trust word to save anything if I don't hit CTRL S
Witchfire@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
I don't trust word to save anything even if I hit Ctrl S
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 245d
Yeah and even if you save it, good fucking luck finding it again.
Even worse now that all docs are saving to "Office 365". No you stupid bastard, I want to save the file to my hard disk on the computer I fucking own!
SpikesOtherDog@ani.social · 4 pts · 244d
Noodle07@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Yeah it's not saved on the cloud here, it's sensible medical government data
Dasus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Correction, without hitting Ctrl+S about a half dozen times in rapid succession
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 245d
Bill Gates eventual tombstone.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 245d
Can't wait to impress someone by jumping over it in one clear hop.
BaraCoded@literature.cafe · 6 pts · 245d
A PSX Memory Card, because that would be awesome.
rook@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 245d
Something like this ?
Zorque@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 245d
Pen and paper? What's that?
Corporal_Punishment@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 245d
Nah, thats for "new'
l_isqof@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
That would be an empty page...
Corporal_Punishment@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 245d
Hmmmm
scurries off to check word
Fuck.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 245d
that's a text editor
pmk@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 245d
I like it because saving is writing. Like in ed(1) or vi(1).
:wq
bluGill@fedia.io · 5 pts · 245d
5.25 inch floppy as homage to my childhood. Or maybe 8 inch - but while I lusted after that much space I never used one.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
Memorize like IOMEGA Zip drive?
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 1 pts · 245d
As I recall, 8 inch store no more data than 5.25
bluGill@fedia.io · 1 pts · 245d
depends - the capactiy changed over the years. My floppies were 90k, while 8 inch at the time was a full megabyte. 5.25 floppies did reach 1.2 megabytes on other systems but they were never available to me - even if I could afford it the drives were never compatible with my atari while the 8 inch drives were (with adapters I only ever saw in magazines)
serpineslair@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 245d
Idk, I guess SSDs/flash media is pretty prevalent nowadays, especially in gaming context. That said, it doesn't leave much in the way of a universally identifiable icon, or animation. So maybe an exposed hard disk, with the disk spinning and the arm moving, if you can picture what I'm describing.
SuperEars@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 244d
Symbol of "the cross" with hover-over text in which Microsoft writes "pray I don't amend it further."
For that future timeline when the meaning of Save becomes "stop working, let Copilot perfect it, and close"
Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org · 5 pts · 245d
A tombstone.
Because you think that you have it fixed now to a certain place.
And you think it has got a name plate in front of it.
But you don't want to think about all the dark details of what's really happening down below!
Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 244d
In Canada, a goalie's hockey stick.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 243d
What? Not a Maple Syrup Spile?
200ok@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 245d
A circle with a check/tick in it
djmikeale@feddit.dk · 5 pts · 245d
I'd like to think it won't even be necessary with a save icon as autosave becomes more prevalent. If I'm wrong, one option the icon could be is something like a "snapshot"
wildncrazyguy138@fedia.io · 4 pts · 245d
The three disks thing that symbolizes database, with a down arrow on top.
Or if we’re really going for the abstract, a knight in armor fighting a dragon with a lady behind him.
mlg@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 244d
Animated Save Album from Mario and Luigi Partners in Time:
I cant find a gif of this, but the rainbow section is supposed to be animated, and the book opens when you hit (click) it.
callyral@pawb.social · 4 pts · 245d
Probably an arrow pointing down inside of a circle, like the download icon. Most of the software I use just has text saying "Save file" and no icon, and I usually press control + S anyways so I don't have much of an opinion regarding this
ImmersiveMatthew@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 244d
Reel to reel tape? Ahahaha
brem@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 244d
Pirate flag or dollar sign, depending on how the file is obtained.
Sly2@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 243d
Okay so hear me out.
The only solution here is Peter
Need to head out ? Oh ok lemme peter this document real quick.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 245d
A box that's closing? as in something being packaged?
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 245d
Arrow to disk.
invertedspear@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 245d
Why a disk? Storage isn’t even disk shaped anymore.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 245d
"Disk" means a memory chip here.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 244d
A hand placing a book on a shelf
Or placing something more modern on a shelf
I'd finish my idea but I'd have to charge you 50 million dollars for it so yea...
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 243d
C90 cassette.
unmagical@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 245d
My company designer erroneously uses a cloud icon.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 245d
An SSD or HDD disk lol.
Something like the symbol Mac uses/used for external storage
MdRuckus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
Maybe like a stop sign. That would signify that you’re purposely stopping to save.
hddsx@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 245d
Yes but what’s the difference between :q and :w and even :wq
nomecks@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 245d
The record symbol from every phone camera
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 245d
But that is for recording, not saving.
nomecks@lemmy.wtf · -2 pts · 244d
Potato, potato
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
AM.
VinesNFluff@pawb.social · 1 pts · 245d
An arrow pointing up at a line. Preferably with each being a different colour.
The arrow indicates movement. The line is abstract. But with the colour coding it carries the idea of 'putting the thing into the other thing'.
The rest is learned pattern recognition. A download is a down arrow in a circle because you are taking the thing from the other thing. So saving is an arrow to a line because you are putting the thing in the other thing.
planish@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 245d
LibreOffice on Ubuntu has a down-arrow "save" icon, and every time I look at it I think "that's a download icon". Up arrow versions of that are upload icons. Neither really conveys "save".
CompassRed@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 244d
I like: Cylinder, Snowflake, Vault, or Piggy bank
morphballganon@mtgzone.com · 1 pts · 244d
Maybe 3 stacked cylinders
AA5B@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Nothing. Why do I need to manage storage myself? Everything i do should just be automatically saved. Each doc should essentially be version control so you can intelligently step back and fork if you need to.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 244d
I hate this. No auto save please.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 243d
What would the symbol be for that function then?
AA5B@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 243d
There should be no such function. A scroll back/forward in time, and a map/flow graph but no save
elbarto777@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
AA5B@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
I meant fork, in the git sense. Scroll back to a previous point and take a different path. But yes, also back and forth
elbarto777@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 0 pts · 245d
Text that says "Saving..."
WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org · 0 pts · 244d
Just remove it all together and use only keyboard shortcuts
BilboBargains@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 245d
( ) )======D~~~
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 245d
Goatse
backgroundcow@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 244d
There should be no save button. All software should auto-save continuously while you work. There should be a "duplicate"-type menu item or button that allow you to make a copy of the document into a new file.
Almost all cloud software already works like this.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 244d
No, please no. I hate auto save. I don't mind choosing to turn it on, sometimes it's warranted, but to have it forced on? Fuck that.
backgroundcow@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 244d
"Saving" is a legacy that was introduced because of limitations related to storage in the early days of computing and makes no inherent sense within the metaphors most software operate. Broken metaphors makes things difficult to learn.
When was the last time you scribbled onto a physical document and the changes "didn't save"? Do you also hate "autosave" in the physical world?
sleen@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 244d
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 244d
Comparing to the physical world makes no sense because a computer is an enhancement that does things differently.
I want way to make trial and error scenarios and test ideas and scribble notes without being forced to keep the changes or retain a document. I also prefer to know where it is going.
I have some software that crashes and leaves me in this weird state where: auto save, recovery file, test sceberio. Which one was I using? Which will it choose to restore and how fucked am I now that the original is lost if I choose wrong?
Edit: I am going to say that on the other hand, in business it is wild that we give people a desktop computer when we should be giving them programs that they use. They should have metadata attached, be relative to their work, and have auto save. I am not always against auto save, it just needs to be in the appropriate places.
backgroundcow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
Comparing with the physical world makes sense when we have built these applications on physical world metaphors: "documents", "folders", "desktop", etc. We use those words precisely because they convey meaning based on the similarities with their real-world counterparts. Broken metaphors are both more difficult to learn and tend to trigger incorrect assumptions leading to operator error ("Didn't you save your document? What does that mean?").
What is worse is that, like it or not, the world is increasingly moving towards cloud services. The "edit + save" paradigm is less suited to that environment, so there we almost exclusively see the "you edit the doc itself (no need to save)" paradigm. It is difficult to see the gain of insisting on keeping both these quite different paradigms around, when the "you edit the doc directly" is no problem to implement also offline.
Now, about the practicalities: I also get fundamentally annoyed when presented with the "document recovery" dialog that brings me out of my flow. However, I interprete the situation differently. Had the software used a "you edit the doc, no need to save" paradigm, there would never be a need for "recovery". The edits I did are stored in the file I edited.
As for "I just want to scribble". Why don't you just scribble in a file called "Scribbles"? Why is that concept so offensive? You'll be happy the day your computer loses power while you are in the midst of scribbling, since you will be able to pick up exactly where you were.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 244d
It means I want to keep it. I don't think that is a broken metaphor at all.
Wait a minute: in the real world I do not need to name anything to make scribbles. I also do not have a paradigm where there is a fork between versions and create a new document that goes off in one direction while the other document goes in another. At the end of the other documents time, why can't I just get rid of it if my what if scenario didn't work out? Oh I have to now find the thing and take even more time to figure out how to get rid of it. I also have to choose where to keep something if it is going to auto save, and I work on multiple computers all around the world so it makes no sense for me to expect it to "save somewhere".
Also, when I am working on what if scenarios, they are not scribbles. They are taking a document that sometimes can take several minutes to load, and might take many minutes to process. They might be excel sheets, they might by python pandas projects, they might be painting projects or 3d renders.
I have no need for cloud services either, that sucks as well. I have my own server, my own world wide storage locations. I would like to decide when I where I put stuff.
backgroundcow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 243d
It will not come natural to people who are used to work with physical documents that you need to remember to "save" an edit, or the document reverts back to the state it was when you opened it.
No, but you need to have a physical document to scribble on, which, after you have scribbled will remain in the state you left it until you take the active decision to throw it away.
Have you never used a copy machine?
Just throw it in the recycle bin? Another real-life metaphor. Do you often find objects in your physical world disappearing without no action from you?
Following the typical cloud implementation, you do not. Just start editing. It will be placed in a default folder under a default name until you rename it / and or move it somewhere else. (These operations are usually provided in more convenient ways than in "save paradigm" software, e.g., the name is shown as a title, just click to change it)
All of these -- except the Python Pandas project (see below) -- could still (and probably should) work according to a "you edit the doc itself, no need to save" paradigm. The larger the underlying file, the less sense does it make to forcibly have to work on a copy; either in RAM (if it fits) or if it doesn't fit, the software has to create an on-disk copy of your huge file behind your back, in case you decide to not save. Leading to all these messy "recovery semantics" that no one likes.
Now, the context of this whole thread is IMO GUI software. When it comes to programming/programmatic tools, e.g. Python Pandas, R, Matlab, etc., that is a different thing. There you have a choice to work in RAM or on disk depending on your needs.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 243d
What a nightmare.
Why don't we just let things default to not auto save but you can turn it on at anytime.
I personally hate it. Absolutely hate it.
I want to put things where I want them the first time when I am ready. I don't use cloud services, I have my own network and cloud file shares. I don't want some program choosing when and where to save something for me, because it is extra work finding all these garbage files I didn't ask for.
xylogx@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 245d
The concept of saving is itself antiquated. Your data should always be saved.
chunes@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 245d
The word 'save.' Never understood why software moved on from words.
remon@ani.social · 13 pts · 245d
Not having to translate symbols would be one reason.
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 245d
Yeah. Pictograms exist in part because they work in most languages
chunes@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 245d
They just force their users to translate their dumb symbols they use because there are so many illiterates out there.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
🤔 do illiterate people even use computers?
can they??
Quazatron@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
Look around you.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
it's times like these I wish I could read...😞
Quazatron@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
It's never too late if you set your mind to it.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
what?!
Blisterexe@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 242d
You can read a pictogram faster than text, so you can find the button you're looking for faster when they're symbols once you know those symbols
mech@feddit.org · -18 pts · 245d
"Saving" a file should already be obsolete.
Filesystems should automatically retain history, so whenever you edit something it's already saved, with the ability to go back to any previous state.
nshibj@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 245d
No, please. I NEVER want a computer to take a decision for me (like save or discard changes). I turned off auto saving on Microsoft Office on my work computer after I unknowingly made some changes in a presentation from another team I was just looking at, and it saved those changes without my knowledge nor consent.
I work with several screens, have several windows of different programs open and, unfortunately, sometimes a keystroke doesn't go where I thought I was sending it (I'm probably getting old). Also sometimes windows from a different program come to focus unannounced and capture whatever you were typing or clicking.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 245d
re: keystroke focus - you're not just getting old, programs are getting shittier about pulling focus when they shouldn't
I work on several screens on several tasks at once typically as well, and it's infuriating when one program pulls focus as I'm typing a sentence into something else, and worse when it does so and accepts the input of my rapid keystrokes to do whatever the fuck all those hotkeys are on the thing that pulled focus
theneverfox@pawb.social · 5 pts · 245d
Oh hell no... You want the computer to decide where your files live??? Autosaving and saving are different things, you do need both
And version control on a filesystem is neat, but you'd still have to save it to a place. Perhaps you save it to a version controlled place, so you're not version controlling things that don't need to be tracked and filling up your entire disc when steam games update
It's your responsibility as the human to make decisions like this. It can be made easier with tools and clean workflows, but if you let the computer do it automatically you're giving up control and understanding
It's how we lose tech literacy
Allero@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 244d
theneverfox@pawb.social · 1 pts · 244d
I mean... You can autosave everything temporarily under a temp filename. The program should treat it as unnamed, and then when you go to save it you then give it a location and a name
It's probably the best workflow, it's pretty common for code editors
Blisterexe@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 242d
Most people already do this lmao, they just trust the program to find the file
theneverfox@pawb.social · 1 pts · 242d
That's called tech illiteracy... It's a bad thing
chunes@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
Wouldn't that take a huge amount of space?
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 245d
yes